For the punishments, you don't sign a contract. The leader (mayor, duke, count,etc) just make it a law that you a banned from where the town, city, or county.

If you break a contract and it contains items like 20 sheep for 20 wood and the guy doesn't give the sheep. The bounty token be for the 20 sheep or his arrest if he resist, as far as I understand.

In the long run I think the true answer is we don't know because the justice system has not been created and the prison feature is an idea that may or may not happen.

Posted By Deftly at 3:57 PM - Tue Nov 22 2016

For the punishments, you don't sign a contract. The leader (mayor, duke, count,etc) just make it a law that you a banned from where the town, city, or county.

If you break a contract and it contains items like 20 sheep for 20 wood and the guy doesn't give the sheep. The bounty token be for the 20 sheep or his arrest if he resist, as far as I understand.

In the long run I think the true answer is we don't know because the justice system has not been created and the prison feature is an idea that may or may not happen.

yea, we dont sign contracts for punishments like spiritloss or giving back what you stole. but there MIGHT be a way like having two options: you sign a contract to work for the victim for a decent time until you refunded everything you destroyed/stole plus a bit more OR you get the spiritloss. I like more options. If I like my life, I would prefer working for someone for some days instead of losing some days of lifetime. If I dont care about my life, I'd take the spiritloss. Still, that spiritloss needs to be higher than what the victim got. Otherwise, the average deviant player deals more damage than he can get as punishment. And it might even be another way of punishment to enforce subscribing contracts as there could be good reasons to prefer someone working for you instead of him being free to continue killing others. If it seems like you punish the opponent with spiritloss and ban him from your country that he will ignore such ban, strife through the woods, be outlaw and continue killing people... what can you do against that? You cant really enforce a ban from your lands, you can just tell everyone to kill him on sight. which he can still counter with disguises. Actually, there is no way of keeping someone far away. Better keep him near and keep an eye on him plus force him to be productive.

We dont know the true answers. Thats why we make threads to discuss how things should be. Or to show our interest in devellopment and hoping for devs to chime in an give insights :P

Concerning survival, while it's true it might not be too hard to survive in the wilds at least decently, if you're an evil character who's banned from settlements, that's a major hindrance to you. Keep in mind, every skill in this game require practice to be done in a tangible way for actual progress to be made, which means practicing deviant skills will be nearly impossible if you can't get inside any city. Lockpicking will require locks to practice, disguise will require plenty of clothes, forgery will require at the very least the same components as scribing, and pickpocketing will require victims. Except for stealth and combat skills, there isn't any deviant skill you can really push forward if you're stuck in a forest, which means even if the criminal can survive in the wilderness, he'll be losing the very thing that made him a threat. He won't really be a criminal anymore, just a raider the guards can deal with every time they cross paths.

Posted By CerebralDaemon at 12:13 AM - Wed Nov 23 2016

Concerning survival, while it's true it might not be too hard to survive in the wilds at least decently, if you're an evil character who's banned from settlements, that's a major hindrance to you. Keep in mind, every skill in this game require practice to be done in a tangible way for actual progress to be made, which means practicing deviant skills will be nearly impossible if you can't get inside any city. Lockpicking will require locks to practice, disguise will require plenty of clothes, forgery will require at the very least the same components as scribing, and pickpocketing will require victims. Except for stealth and combat skills, there isn't any deviant skill you can really push forward if you're stuck in a forest, which means even if the criminal can survive in the wilderness, he'll be losing the very thing that made him a threat. He won't really be a criminal anymore, just a raider the guards can deal with every time they cross paths.

good points as long as its possible to ban people from large areas and not only from your village/city. If a criminal just wants to terrorize a specific village and only gets banned from there, he might go to the next settlement to buy all the needed goods for his disguises and so on.

"-The suffered spiritloss for offender and victim is the same. In my opinion, this is very unfair. The victim (in case of murder) suffered spiritloss because someone (the offender) decided so. The offender only suffers spiritloss, if someone is able to catch him. First, the victim needs to go to the sheriff or any other justice-person, create a bounty token, someone has to take that token, search for the offender, find him, beat him, bring him to court, he must be found guilty, then takes punishment. That is a lot of needed work just for the same amount of spiritloss someone can just like that put on someone. IMO totally unjustifiable. Needs to have some multiplier!"

This is outdated to my knowledge. Yes if you kill someone they will have the same spirit loss, don't kill them lol. Take them to a jail and let the local laws decide how much spirit he loses.

"-Different playstyles rate their lifetime differently. While players with titles tend to want to become as old as possible to have their titles as long as possible to stay at power as long as possible and productive players tend to want to live quite long to get higher skills in productive stuff by teaching and such while being old, fighting oriented and deviant players usually hate being old because their preferred skillsets get weak when they are old which leads to them not caring about their last years of lifetime and might lead to parts of them even suiciding after ~9-10 months of gameplay. If someone did some crimes (murders) and got punished with a sum of three months of spiritloss, he reaches exactly his preferred age and did not suffer any real punishment."

People use cops to suicide in real life or prison to escape their old gang or rivals. Why not in CoE? Besides BOTH skills decay after like 45. Mental and physical.This means if you did this just to be old you really fucked yourself over. There is NO benefit to being over 50. If you want to keep being a noble, make will..... problem solved. Have a kid around your early 20's so by the time you die your kid is an adult if you want.

"Can someone just be banned from the county he did criminal things or even from the whole kingdom?"

This depends on how customizable the laws are. I would assume you would need to convict him of a crime first because if not the abuse could be out of control. Example: A blacksmith guild is about to put the count's out of business so he just exiles them lol.

"Can someone be forced to sign a contract that says he will work a week together with his victim to pay back what he did? He could again break that contract and run away, but it will explicitly show harsh punishment in case of being caught again... Still, I'd prefer this way of possible punishment. imo its better than spiritloss or prison for both sides (discussable if its better for the criminal, but as long as its not someone very destructive, that just killed accidently (think of drunken guys in a pub brawl), even better for him if he does not plan on being evil his whole life)."

Nothing said on this.

"It was written, that one wont starve out in the woods if one has some skills in cooking and hunting (which sounds like not much work). Water should be found in rivers, sleeping can be done in tents or caves... So where is the problem to survive in the wild? How does being evil and banned from settlements make life very hard?"

Can I have a source on this? Because in the 2nd to latest QnA they implied it being very hard. I think you misunderstood it. You need the skills to have a CHANCE at not starving. You don't get a freebie. You need to hunt for food, then cook it like any other survival. If you don't have the skills you instantly fucked.

"prison has been mentioned and discussed as a presumable very boring mechanism, but it has neither been denied nor confirmed, if they will be a thing. Imo, it cant be hard to force someone into a room and lock a door behind him... as we will have lockable doors... so how can prison be impossible? i dont say i want prison, i just wonder how it can be made impossible for prisons to exist without teleportskills. If you are locked inside a room, how will you get out? Can you just die and revive outside? thats a bit weird."

Prison isn't impossible, it's an EXTREMELY abusable system that has no place in this game. If you want you can find the 6 other threads about prison where no one can beat my arguments. It is simply impossible to make an abuse-proof prison system that adds meaningful experience to anyone's game. I don't feel like winning another fight on this but if you want to try to describe an abuse-proof system I guess I can find the flaws.

Posted By Wicked FlamezZ at 3:33 PM - Wed Nov 23 2016

"-Different playstyles rate their lifetime differently. While players with titles tend to want to become as old as possible to have their titles as long as possible to stay at power as long as possible and productive players tend to want to live quite long to get higher skills in productive stuff by teaching and such while being old, fighting oriented and deviant players usually hate being old because their preferred skillsets get weak when they are old which leads to them not caring about their last years of lifetime and might lead to parts of them even suiciding after ~9-10 months of gameplay. If someone did some crimes (murders) and got punished with a sum of three months of spiritloss, he reaches exactly his preferred age and did not suffer any real punishment."

People use cops to suicide in real life or prison to escape their old gang or rivals. Why not in CoE? Besides BOTH skills decay after like 45. Mental and physical.This means if you did this just to be old you really fucked yourself over. There is NO benefit to being over 50. If you want to keep being a noble, make will..... problem solved. Have a kid around your early 20's so by the time you die your kid is an adult if you want.

My problem here is, that spiritloss is a useless penalty against criminals. at least, the first ~3-4 months of spiritloss. if they suicide after 8-9 months anyway, there is no punishment, if they lose 3-4 months by annoying others that might have liked those months. there needs to be an alternative punishment that actually punishes criminals. Spiritloss just does not work against criminals.

And there is a difference between some people suiciding because they have no will to live anymore or because they see no other way to escape their enemies and suicide being a common tactic that everyone will use.

"It was written, that one wont starve out in the woods if one has some skills in cooking and hunting (which sounds like not much work). Water should be found in rivers, sleeping can be done in tents or caves... So where is the problem to survive in the wild? How does being evil and banned from settlements make life very hard?"

Can I have a source on this? Because in the 2nd to latest QnA they implied it being very hard. I think you misunderstood it. You need the skills to have a CHANCE at not starving. You don't get a freebie. You need to hunt for food, then cook it like any other survival. If you don't have the skills you instantly fucked.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding... I didn't find the source, but remember having read it as a comment by Caspian in a Dev Journal, that you should be able to not starve if you make journeys or go exploring for some days, if you have some skills in cooking and hunting/bows. And if you can do that, what stops you from doing the same in an extended period (maybe winter will make it harder and this is where the problem comes up?)?

"prison has been mentioned and discussed as a presumable very boring mechanism, but it has neither been denied nor confirmed, if they will be a thing. Imo, it cant be hard to force someone into a room and lock a door behind him... as we will have lockable doors... so how can prison be impossible? i dont say i want prison, i just wonder how it can be made impossible for prisons to exist without teleportskills. If you are locked inside a room, how will you get out? Can you just die and revive outside? thats a bit weird."

Prison isn't impossible, it's an EXTREMELY abusable system that has no place in this game. If you want you can find the 6 other threads about prison where no one can beat my arguments. It is simply impossible to make an abuse-proof prison system that adds meaningful experience to anyone's game. I don't feel like winning another fight on this but if you want to try to describe an abuse-proof system I guess I can find the flaws.

I agree that prison can be abused quite easily. I dont want prison. I just wonder, how you can make prison non-existant. What stops players from creating a wall around another player? Sure, the player should run away before that wall is finished. But if you are inside, you are inside. How do you get out, if there is no door? I'm not talking about some kind of prison system. I just think practically: What stops players from building walls, luring someone in, closing that wall and having someone captured? Are you getting teleported when you die? Or how will you get out? I am against prison. If any, I'd like to enforce labour through enforced signed contracts as punishment. Or take someone with decent digging skills, let him create a tunnel with a cave that has a hole in the top that no one can reach. spread a rumor that there is a treasure in the cave, hide near the entrance and when your target enters that cave, let the tunnel collapse. now, you have someone in your cave that cannot escape. you can throw food and water through the hole in the top so he wont starve. or you just create said cave under your city, which lets it be part of the city and starving is impossible per se. How will the player get out? Will dieing teleport him?

btw: your sig seems to have a bug, there is a ')' in the end besides your banner.