COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Casus Belli: An AB Guide
+27

Heya folks. This is my first actual guide for CoE, and it comes specifically out of seeing the very large amounts of misconceptions in our community about what exactly a Casus Belli is, how its gained, what happens after you Casus Belli, and what does this mean as far as the pacing and scale of the gaining and losing of titles and potentially expansion in game.

I will do my best to cover all of these topics for the community, as well as keep this guide as up to date as possible with officially released information (information that has been released as a forum post, or development journal to the wide audience of the community, in-keeping with my NDA for the Early Access forums).

Welcome to the first of what is hopefully many AB Guides! (yes, I am aware that using the initials for my forum name is not very creative, but hey it works for me.) I hope you like them, they are written to be both informative, and entertaining. (I was certainly entertained in my writing of this one!)

The Casus Belli System

Otherwise known as: The “Oh that’s how I lose my stuff.” System Or The “Oh that’s how move on up.” System.

Please bear in mind that this is written based off of the understanding of the Design Journal #18 and is certainly up to change, as is anything, before launch.

Table of Contents

General Information

What is a Casus Belli?

How do I get a Casus Belli?

I am a commoner. How do I get a Casus Belli?

I am a Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / Baroness. How do I get a Casus Belli?

I am a Count / Countess. How do I get a Casus Belli?

I am a Duke / Duchess. How do I get a Casus Belli?

I am a King / Queen. How do I get a Casus Belli?

Expanding into other Kingdoms / Duchies / Counties

Gotcha! CASUS BELLI was caught!

Alright I Declared Casus Belli the Title is Mine Now Right?..... Right?


12/19/2016 10:35:48 AM #1
+3

What is a Casus Belli?

Put simply, a Casus Belli is an act or situation provoking or justifying war. Thank you google.

There are three types of Casus Belli in CoE: Fame, Fortune, and Favor. the three Fs if you will

Fame and Fortune Casus Bellis can only be utilized to claim an aristocratic title. Please refer to the titles under Aristocracy below if you are not sure what an aristocratic title is. I explain these in much better detail in the later sections

Favor Casus Bellis are the only way to become a, or increase in noble title. Please refer to the titles under Nobility below if you are not sure what a noble title is. Favor can also be used to claim an aristocratic title. Please refer to the titles under Aristocracy below if you are not sure what an aristocratic title is. I explain these in much better detail in the later sections

In a CoE sense, think of a Casus Belli as someone declaring their rights to a specific title.

A title in CoE is specifically one of the 4 tiers of Aristocracy / Nobility currently in the game. In order these are:

Aristocracy

Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / Baroness

Nobility

Count / Countess

Duke / Duchess

King / Queen

Emperor / Empress otherwise known as the Palpatine just kidding don’t take that seriously no really, I said there were 4 tiers earlier, as of right now this tier doesn’t exist, therefore no details on it exist. Sillies


12/19/2016 10:35:50 AM #2
+3

I am a commoner, how do I get a Casus Belli?

otherwise known as: “How did I just lose my Barony / Lands around my Barony?”

That is a good question, and a semi complicated one and in order to answer it I am going use scenarios to describe things, I hope you enjoy it.

In the case of someone wanting to become a Baron / Mayor there are a few options for you.

New Settlement Leaders

Now let’s say you don’t want to take a title from anyone (why would anyone want to do that? That is just mean!) however you would like to run a town of your own someday.

  1. You can certainly take a group of friends out into the wilderness, purchase some land and build up your own hamlet, grow it to a village, and then a town with the appropriate dimensions and population, per the dev journal. Once you have hit the threshold for a town you can submit your town charter to your Count and register yourself as the Mayor. No CB needed.

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Magistrate / Baron!

But come now Adam, I have a huge jerk face of a Magistrate / Baron who treats our city like his own personal playground and forgets that we want to play this game too! What can I do to strip this genius of his title and put it on someone, like me, who can treat us people folk right?

  1. Accrue enough wealth to purchase a Casus Belli with your fortune, and own land in the settlement. The amount of wealth needed will be based upon the economy in game so is not determined currently. (You might also want to have enough of a fortune to hire some soldiers of fortune if you know what I mean….)
  2. Accrue enough fame in your town to raise yourself to Notable (to become a Mayor) or Prominent (to become a Magistrate / Baron) and you will be able to declare a Casus Belli and claim the huge jerk face’s title.
  3. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from at least 25% of the Barons / Mayors / Magistrates in your county and the Count of your county. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli against your huge jerk face Magistrate / Baron.
  4. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from at least 51% of the Barons / Mayors / Magistrates in your county but not the Count’s Favor. This will also give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli against your huge jerk face Magistrate / Baron.

12/19/2016 10:35:52 AM #3
+4

I am a Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / Baroness how do I get a Casus Belli?

otherwise known as: “How did I just lose my County / Baronies in my County?”

That is a good question, and a semi complicated one and in order to answer it I am going use scenarios to describe things, I hope you enjoy it.

In the case of someone wanting to become a Count / Countess there are a few options for you.

New County Independence!

otherwise known as: Domestic Expansionist

Now let’s say you don’t want to take a title from anyone (why would anyone want to do that? That is just mean!) however you, as a current Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / Baroness, would like to run a County of your own someday.

  1. First you will need to go buy up a crapload of land / gain the support of the Mayors / Magistrates / etc that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from at least 25% of the Counts in your Duchy, and your Duke. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the substantial amount of land that you own to your very own County complete with title.
  2. First you will need to go buy up a crapload of land / gain the support of the Mayors / Magistrates / etc that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 51% of the Counts in your Duchy but not the Duke. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the substantial amount of land that you own to your very own County complete with title.
  3. First you will need to go buy up a crapload of land / gain the support of the Mayors / Magistrates / etc that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 66.66% of all of the Mayors / Magistrates / etc in your County. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the substantial amount of land that you own to your very own County complete with title.

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Count Dude Thinggy!

But come now Adam, I have a huge jerk face of a Count / Countess who spends far too much time out adventuring and doesn’t pay any mind to running our fragile little county. All they think about is themselves and us town leaders are sick of slipping further behind due to piss poor leadership. What can I do to step up to the plate and replace this genius so that I, the magnificent me, can lead this county into a golden age!?

  1. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from at least 25% of the Counts in your Duchy, and your Duke. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current Count and give you claim to the title.
  2. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 51% of the Counts in your Duchy but not the Duke. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current Count and give you claim to the title.
  3. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 66.66% of all of the Mayors / Magistrates / etc in your County. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current Count and give you claim to the title.

I actually don’t want to take a Count Title, I want to run multiple cities!

otherwise known as the: “I really don’t understand how far in over my head I am getting.”

You know, Adam, I have no real desire to be a Count. I just really want to run multiple cities that are a 30 minute ride apart, and have to leave one seat exposed as I go protect the other seat because that sounds like a blast to me!

I sincerely wish you the best of luck, if there is one thing harder than running a Kingdom its going to be running multiple cities, that’s a lot of direct reports. However, if that is truly your goal then follow the exact same steps located in the “I’m a commoner how do I get a Casus Belli” section above.


12/19/2016 10:35:55 AM #4
+2

I am a Count / Countess how do I get a Casus Belli?

otherwise known as: “How did I just lose my Duchy / Counties in my Duchy?”

That is a good question, and a semi complicated one and in order to answer it I am going use scenarios to describe things, I hope you enjoy it.

In the case of someone wanting to become a Duke / Duchess there are a few options for you.

New Duchy Independence!

otherwise known as: Domestic Expansionist

Now let’s say you don’t want to take a title from anyone (why would anyone want to do that? That is just mean!) however you, as a current Count / Countess, would like to run a Duchy of your own someday.

  1. First you will need to grab up a few counties or gain the support of the Counts that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from at least 25% of the Dukes in your Kingdom, and your King. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the Counties under your vassalage into your own Duchy complete with title.
  2. First you will need to grab up a few counties or gain the support of the Counts that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 51% of the Dukes in your Kingdom but not the King. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the Counties under your vassalage into your own Duchy complete with title.
  3. First you will need to grab up a few counties or gain the support of the Counts that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 66.66% of all of the Counts in your Duchy. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the Counties under your vassalage into your own Duchy complete with title.

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Duke Duder McThinggy!

But come now Adam, you just don’t understand, my Duke is the absolute worst. He logs in once a month just long enough to empty the bed pans in his gigantic manor into tidy little packages, which he sends to each of the counts under his charge. When we open them a miniature catapult that was built by his master tinkerer flings his foul creations at us and taped to the lid of the box is a letter reading: “Taxes just went up, little piggy, pay up or the slop now covering you will be your natural wardrobe.”. What can I do to remove this pompous, petulant, monster from his title and put someone, someone who would be like a hero to the people, a brave, strong, and true person, a champion of all that is right and good, the best person… me… into his position?

  1. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from at least 25% of the Dukes in your Kingdom, and your King. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current duke and claim their title.
  2. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 51% of the Dukes in your Kingdom but not the King. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current duke and claim their title.
  3. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 66.66% of all of the Counts in your Duchy. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current duke and claim their title.

I actually don’t want to take a Duke Title, I want to run multiple Counties!

I sincerely wish you the best of luck, essentially you will need to follow the directions in the “I am a Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / Baroness how do I get a Casus Belli?” section. It is still unclear on whether or not, after taking the neighboring county, if you will have to run both seats of power or if you can consolidate your seat of power to one of your towns and appoint a Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / or Baroness for the previous County’s seat of power.


12/19/2016 10:35:58 AM #5
+3

I am a Duke / Duchess how do I get a Casus Belli?

otherwise known as: “How did I just lose my Kingdom / Duchies in my Kingdom?”

That is a good question, and a semi complicated one and in order to answer it I am going use scenarios to describe things, I hope you enjoy it.

In the case of someone wanting to become a King / Queen there are a few options for you.

New Kingdom Independence!

otherwise known as: Ooo look I got a Crown!

Now let’s say you don’t want to take a title from anyone (why would anyone want to do that? That is just mean!) however you, as a current Duke / Duchess, would like to run a Kingdom of your own someday.

  1. First you will need to grab up a few duchies or gain the support of the Dukes that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from at least 25% of the Kings in your Empire, and your Emperor. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the Duchies under your vassalage into your own Kingdom complete with title. (this assumes that Empires are a thing and you are a part of one, it might also assume that you can actually convert a single Kingdom into an Empire in this method. Pure speculation here.)
  2. First you will need to grab up a few duchies or gain the support of the Dukes that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 51% of the Kings on your server. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the Duchies under your vassalage into your own Kingdom complete with title.
  3. First you will need to grab up a few duchies or gain the support of the Dukes that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 66.66% of all of the Dukes in your Kingdom. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the Duchies under your vassalage into your own Kingdom complete with title.

Depose the Huge Jerk Face King McDuder Thing-a-dilly-bob!

But come now Adam, you just don’t understand, my King, he just doesn’t get it. He promises everything to everyone and doesn’t deliver on a lick of it. He personally told me that as a Duke, he would support me conquering the entire server all on my own then would bow down to me. I mean I thought it was to good to be true, and it was. As soon as the game started he completely back pedaled on everything he told all of the people who joined him, and they just ripped the Kingdom to shreds trying to get the most for themselves in the process. What can I do, to replace this genius with someone who can deliver on their promises, can manage the expectations of this nation and harness its potential for greatness, someone who can unilaterally decide what is best for 20,000 people in mere seconds all on their own, with the aid of every talent in the game that will surely be theirs if they can only be King… someone like…. Me!

  1. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from at least 25% of the Kings in your Empire, and your Emperor. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current King and claim their title. (this assumes that Empires are a thing and you are a part of one, it might also assume that you can actually convert a single Kingdom into an Empire in this method. Pure speculation here.)
  2. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 51% of the Kings on your server. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current King and claim their title.
  3. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 66.66% of all of the Dukes in your Kingdom. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current King and claim their title.

I actually don’t want to take a King Title, I want to run multiple Duchies!

I sincerely wish you the best of luck, essentially you will need to follow the directions in the “I am a Count / Countess how do I get a Casus Belli?” section. It is still unclear on whether or not, after taking the neighboring Duchy, if you will have to run both seats of power or if you can consolidate your seat of power to one of your towns and appoint a Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / or Baroness for the previous Duchy’s seat of power.


12/19/2016 10:36:00 AM #6
+1

I am a King / Queen how do I get a Casus Belli?

otherwise known as: “How did I just lose my Empire / Kingdoms in my Empire?” or “Okay now we are in pure speculation mode.

That is a good question, and a semi complicated one and in order to answer it I am going use scenarios to describe things, I hope you enjoy it.

In the case of someone wanting to become a Emperor / Empress there are a few options for you (maybe?).

New Empire Independence!

otherwise known as: Really? … I sincerely doubt it.

Now let’s say you don’t want to take a title from anyone (why would anyone want to do that? That is just mean!) however you, as a current King / Queen, would like to run an Empire of your own someday.

  1. First you will need to grab up a few kingdoms or gain the support of the Kings that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 51% of the Emperors on your server. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the Kingdoms under your vassalage into your own Empire complete with title.
  2. First you will need to grab up a few kingdoms or gain the support of the Kings that wish to fall within your domain. Then run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 66.66% of all of the Kings on your server. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to split off the Kingdoms under your vassalage into your own Empire complete with title.

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Emperor Flaming McDuder Thing-a-dilly-bob-o!

But come now Adam, you just don’t understand, my Emperor (if such a thing ever exists) is just the worst human being on the planet. He is literally Hitler, same mustache and everything. We have official youtube footage of him literally turning baby seals into SPAM and selling it to homeless people in exchange for them fighting to the death. His catch phrase on the series is “To the victor goes the spoils!”. When he isn’t doing that he actually makes his living as Donald Trump’s toupee, and actively encouraging children to get into drug trafficking because “it’s the most stable job they are able to get in today’s society”. The last, and most shocking piece, which is unconfirmed, is that he is the guy who single handedly stole millions of people’s identities through acting like a Nigerian Prince and scamming them via email to give him their bank information so that he can “send them money” to keep it “out of the hands of his enemies”. I personally fell for that three times! His story is just too realistic and we are tired of the lies, and being oppressed by this damned hairy heathen! What can I do to remove this ratty monstrosity of a human toupee thingy, and replace him with an Emperor that the whole world will love and adore, and follow through hell and high water, and who actually looks good on top of a world leader’s head, someone like… me!?

  1. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 51% of the Emperors on your server. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current Emperor and claim their title.
  2. Run around getting contracts of support / Favor from 66.66% of all of the Kings in your Kingdom. This will give you enough Favor to declare a Casus Belli to depose your current Emperor and claim their title.

I actually don’t want to take an Emperor Title, I want to run multiple Kingdoms!

I sincerely wish you the best of luck, essentially you will need to follow the directions in the “I am a Duke / Duchess how do I get a Casus Belli?” section. It is still unclear on whether or not, after taking the neighboring Kingdom, if you will have to run both seats of power or if you can consolidate your seat of power to one of your towns and appoint a Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / or Baroness for the previous Kingdom’s seat of power.


12/19/2016 10:36:03 AM #7
+0

So far, we have only talked about Domestic Expansion, what about Foreign Expansion, what if I want to take land and titles from other Kingdoms?

Ooooo Good question! Have I got a treat for you!

As of right now there is absolutely no official detail on foreign expansion that has been officially released! Anyone who is making plans for foreign expansion right now, has not got a clue what they are talking about because there is literally absolutely no official details that have been given on how that will work! Isn’t that exciting!

Now, just for you, because I am sure I built you up and slammed you down a bit there. (sorry) I created this section so that I can update it in the future when there are official details released. However, UNTIL THEN! I will go ahead and speculate on what I anticipate to happen for Foreign Expansion.

What will likely happen is just like we have 3 different forms of Casus Belli for domestic coups. There will be a number of Casus Bellis with parameters around Kingdoms going to war with each other. Some examples of these Casus Bellis would be:

  1. Claim – If you have a personal claim upon a title in a realm, you can push this claim to usurp the title. (This claim would likely follow the 3 casus belli system we currently have, you develop your claim based upon Favor, Fortune, or Fame)
  2. Claim for Other – Push a single claim on behalf of any of your vassals. (This claim would likely follow the 3 casus belli system we currently have, you develop your claim based upon Favor, Fortune, or Fame. However, this is a liege lord pushing the claim for one of their vassals.)
  3. Holy War (Or something similar) – Declaration of war against a bordering Kingdom / Duchy / County / City who follows a different religion than yours. If at the conclusion of that war domains are controlled by followers of your religion they become your vassals.
  4. Reclamation – Used to reclaim land that had been lost in previous wars.
  5. I am sure there are a number of others, these are just a few examples.

As of this time there is no indication that there will be any type of De Jure mechanics in the game. De jure mechanics would basically mean that there are lands outside of our starting domains (Kingdom, Duchy, County) that had once belonged to our domain but now fall into someone else’s domain. Were these mechanics to exist it is also possible that upon finding items or historical text that proves your claim to these De jure lands you would have a right to Casus Belli to claim your right to those lands. However, De jure mechanics are not currently confirmed for CoE nor have they even been mentioned (still part of the speculation).

The less speculative theory is that the three forms of Casus Belli still apply to foreign expansion. You can utilize fame and fortune to take cities in the neighboring counties, once taken you break your contract with your current liege lord and sign a new one with your liege lord on the other side of the boarder. It is likely that this act will take yet another Casus Belli (yes two more months) for you to declare that new liege lord. However again this is still speculation, and is pending release of any details regarding foreign expansion (or expansion into other Kingdom’s / Duchies / Counties)

The basic jidst of it is, foreign expansion will likely go through the exact same rigmarole as domestic, they want these titles to be a long and hard process to have taken from you so that you can feel secure in your position. However still have the tools available so that you absolutely can, and likely will, lose them at some point.


12/19/2016 10:36:06 AM #8
+2

Alright I Declared Casus Belli the Title is Mine Now Right?..... Right?

Moving away from speculation and back to official details!

Nope, sorry boss, that Casus Belli you got there only serves to give you the right to claim the title. You have to then back up and deliver on your claim. This starts what is called a coup. Now regardless of if you started up a new settlement, are declaring independence, or are simply trying to depose that stupid meany head above you, you are attempting to take land or a title away from someone else. This will cause some kind of conflict or destabilization, (unless of course this was pre-planned and talked over with everyone and everyone is good with it and super supportive because like you are the best around and no one is ever gonna get you down!) erm this conflict or destabilization is called a Coup.

Once you have declared your Casus Belli you must either set up your seat of power (if you are declaring independence / establishing a new title) or capture the seat of power from the person you are deposing. Once you have control over your designated seat of power you have to defend it for 28 days. If you are killed or your new seat of power is removed, welp, sorry sport, you lost.

28 Days?!? That’s a long time, any way to shorten that?

Absolutely, however I would not count on it happening, like…. Ever.

The person you are deposing or taking a chunk of land from can forfeit their title to you by presenting you with their ring, in this case their title is revoked immediately and is given to the new noble.

I know what you are thinking…. What if I steal the ring!?!

Well per the design journal, you can absolutely do that and auto win yourself a title. Now that you know that, so do they so if you honestly think that these rings are not going to be the most protected items in the game, or if you are an aristocrat and you don’t make this your most protected item in the game, you deserve to have it stolen and be robbed of your title. just saying the information was out there, plan accordingly silly billies.

What happens if you lose you ask?

I mean as if that is going to happen, you got this! But you know, just in case.

Every one of your peers will have one of three choices when you declare a Casus Belli:

  1. Join you and become part of your new domain / swear fealty to you, and hope that your liege lord doesn’t win.
  2. Remain neutral, and hope that your current liege lord either doesn’t notice, is very understanding, or is just tired of all the fighting if they win.
  3. Join your liege lord’s call to arms and hope that you don’t win.

If your liege lord wins, you and every person who stood neutral or joined you is now at their mercy, and able to be tried for treason. They will be able to strip you and your cohorts / those who stood idle for their call of their titles and lands, and appoint people from those areas (of the same title or one lower) into your position.

Dang… that hurts… good thing that’s not going to happen. What happens when I win!?

If you win, and your aim was simply to split off to create your own domain then congrats! You and those who pledged to you get exactly your aim. You will have the ability to sue for peace against those that opposed you.

If you win, and your aim was to depose the title above you then congrats! You and those pledged to you get to keep your lands and you have earned a spiffy new title. You will have the ability to sue for peace against those who opposed you, or decide to invade their lands for their transgressions against their clearly rightful ruler…

But wait there is more! What happens to the guy / gal I just deposed / took a chunk of land from?

So long as they didn’t forfeit (read the 28 Days!?!? Section) then they have a free Casus Belli to counter-attack and reclaim their position.

What another 28 days!?!

Yup! If they are unable to retake their seat of power within 28 days and hold it for 28 days then their title will change to “Deposed” and they will no longer have a Casus Belli to claim that land as theirs. However, if they owned land that was outside of the settlement that held their seat of power they do still have rights to that land and can retire there to contemplate their next move. Any land that they had within the settlement that held their seat of power will become yours upon your victory.


12/19/2016 10:36:09 AM #9
+1

Reserved


12/19/2016 10:36:13 AM #10
+1

Reserved


12/19/2016 10:36:16 AM #11
+1

Reserved


12/19/2016 10:38:31 AM #12
+0

Good plan :) Will no doubt be useful.


12/19/2016 11:13:58 AM #13
+7

Reserved sorry at work but i disagree with Adam reading of dj 18

Nice, the simple fact to say that you disagree get you downvoted .

Well never mind tring to help make a guide better or accurate, after all that is not the goal of guide right ?

First i'd like to say that Adam Burrfoot's work is needed and impressive, well written and in depth.

But as i stated, i think, that he made a wrong interpretation of what was said in the DJ and right from the start.

The part of the DJ we are talking about is the one starting at : "Claims"

It says that "to claim a noble title, you need to have a casus belli", noble titles are and the DJ state it Count, Duke and King, aristocratic "title" or "position" are not part of nobility : "The Nobility are the Counts, Dukes, and Kings."

So a casus belli is needed to claim a noble title not an aristocratic one. especially the Fame and wealth CB as stated in their description : "Casus Belli from Fame

Each noble title has its own fame. Legendary for Kings, Exalted for Dukes, and Renowned for Counts.

If you can reach the level of fame just below a noble title: Famous for Counts, Renowned for Dukes, and Exalted for Kings, you can automatically claim Casus Belli on the basis of being famous."

Which is the opposit of what Adam says : "Fame and Fortune Casus Bellis can only be utilized to claim an aristocratic title."

That is why i say i do not agree with Adam's reading of the DJ.

The DJ state that CB are to claim noble titles, that Fame and Wealth CB ar only available to non noble, that means that Nobles can not access a Fame or Wealth casus belli. And no one can get a casus belli against an aristocrate! NO ONE, neither a noble nor an other aristocrate nor a landed gentry or a non landed gentry, no one!

Carefull, i am not saying there are no ways to depose an aristocrate, i just read the DJ and say that casus belli are for noble title only.

So back to reading the DJ, "There are three ways you can go about getting a Casus Belli: Favor, Fame, and Wealth. Note: the last two only apply to non-Nobles. Once you become a noble, only favor can be used."

The DJ here talk about how to get a CB and it says that Favor is the only way to get a CB once you are a Noble, not that it is the only way to claim a noble title as Adam says.

That are the main points where i disagree in

What is a Casus Belli?

and so they have repercutions on the other chapters.

I am a commoner, how do I get a Casus Belli?

New Settlement Leaders

You do not need any CB with a new settlement or with a growing one. If your settlement reach the size of a town, the minimum population and the requested buildings you can write a charter with the other elders and go to the count to have it sign it and doing so register the new town, turning you into a Mayor.

link from the DJ : "Now, once you get to the point of having a town there is a Town Charter that is filled out. The person "in charge" of the town is the Mayor and everyone else are members of the Town Council. This is similar to Guild Leaders and Officers in other games. Generally speaking, the Mayor of the town will be the person who owns the most land under the town. But it doesn't have to be that way. Whoever registers the town charter with the county is the Mayor, regardless of whether they actually have the most land or not."

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Magistrate / Baron!

That part is unknown, it was mentionned a long time ago that the elders of a settlement may be able to vote out a mayor but it has never been confirmed officially into a DJ or a transcripted chat with a dev (as far as i know)

I am a Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / Baroness how do I get a Casus Belli?

New County Independence!

independence is presented in the DJ but have been talked about quite a lot since then and was pending revue last time i checked.

Anyway how it was presented in the DJ, to try to creat a new county and earn your independence from your count you need to be a mayor/baron. the reason for it is that to declare your independence you need to build a county seat of power in your town.

As a mayor , you are not a noble so you have access to the 3 kinds of CB not just favor, all you need is a CB and to build the seat of power, and be sucsessfull !

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Count Dude Thinggy!

Same as above, except you do not need to build and protect your own seat of power, but need to conquer the one of the count you want to usurp.

I actually don’t want to take a Count Title, I want to run multiple cities!

It is not mentionned in the DJ, but was addressed by Caspian on talks about account merging, you can only rule from one place, means you can only have one aristocratic "title/position" and as such you'll never directly rule over several settlements (of town size or larger)

I am a Count / Countess how do I get a Casus Belli?

New Duchy Independence!

Same as a county's independence, at least as it was presented in the DJ, but that is were the thing was put on hold, because SBS said that they do not want extra small duchies, so they are thinking of limitations to prevent a single small county to start a new duchy.

So in fact for that one how Adam's presenting it might verry well be quite close to what will happen.

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Duke Duder McThinggy!

Nothing to say, 100% agree with adam.

I actually don’t want to take a Duke Title, I want to run multiple Counties!

As to the subject of this thread, aka Casus Belli, The DJ do not say that you can get a casus belli for a same noble tier as yours.

The exemples given are all depicting a lower tier going up on the tier ladder. I'm not saying it is not possible, i do really think it make sens that a noble be allowed to CB an other noble of same tier, i just say it is not told into the DJ!

I am a Duke / Duchess how do I get a Casus Belli?

New Kingdom Independence!

As for the count, Adam might be close to what will go out of the reviewing of what was described into the DJ

Depose the Huge Jerk Face King McDuder Thing-a-dilly-bob!

100% agreement

I actually don’t want to take a King Title, I want to run multiple Duchies!

Same as the count

I am a King / Queen how do I get a Casus Belli?

New Empire Independence!

same as duke and count if we ever get to that level Adam should be close to the truth.

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Emperor Flaming McDuder Thing-a-dilly-bob-o!

1) 100% ok, 2) i disagree, you'd need support of 66.66% of all kingdoms in your Empire not the server.

I actually don’t want to take an Emperor Title, I want to run multiple Kingdoms!

same as duke and count

So far, we have only talked about Domestic Expansion, what about Foreign Expansion, what if I want to take land and titles from other Kingdoms?

"As of right now there is absolutely no official detail on foreign expansion that has been officially released! Anyone who is making plans for foreign expansion right now, has not got a clue what they are talking about because there is literally absolutely no official details that have been given on how that will work! Isn’t that exciting!"

100% TRUE, i might have a different reading of the DJ on all the previous points that one i agree totally!

Alright I Declared Casus Belli the Title is Mine Now Right?..... Right?

28 Days?!? That’s a long time, any way to shorten that?

Adam is right, but on the part about the ring stealing, i wad understood that the ring if not given by the forfeiting noble was going to be stealable only if the noble had no heir.

What happens if you lose you ask?

100% Ok

Dang… that hurts… good thing that’s not going to happen. What happens when I win!?

100% OK

But wait there is more! What happens to the guy / gal I just deposed / took a chunk of land from?

The first part about independence is OK but for the second part i have once more to disagree. The DJ says :"An alternative to setting up a new county of your own, which requires a significant amount of land, is to just march into the County Seat, and claim it as your own. If you can stay in the county seat for 28 days, you become the new Count. If you're killed…. well.... Yeah. You lost. No building needs to be destroyed in order to prevent your coup from succeeding."

If you suceeded into your conquest of your lord seat of power, you have to hold it for 28 days. At any point from the moment you start your coup to the end of the 28th day, if you die your coup fail!

Lastly

One point that is grey to me is the ability for a noble to CB a lower tier noble, as i already said about same tier CB nothing is written in the DJ about that.

PS: I once again want to say that The work and goal of Adam Burrfoot here are astonishing and wonderfull, i'm pointing out a diferent understanding of the only official source we have.


12/19/2016 2:36:31 PM #14
+1

I disagree with your interpretation, which is why I wrote this guide in the first place. Elsewhere in the dev journal it specifically states:

"Another thing to note, in the event a power struggle does occur and a noble is forced to fill the seat of a lesser noble, they can only do so with the lesser noble’s peers, or one step below. So if a duke is tossed out or dies, the spot can only be filled with another duke or a count. Likewise, a Mayor that is removed from power can only be replaced by another Mayor, or by someone else who owns land within the settlement."

Due to this, I am led to believe that in order to CB for a specific title, you will need to be of that same title or one step lower. This would specifically mean that only Aristocrats can CB a Count, only a Count can CB a Duke, only a Duke can CB a King and so on. Since, by virtue of CBing a Count you are claiming to be nobility you are stuck using the favor Casus Belli. That is my interpretation, I could be wrong, but will wait for clarification from the devs before making a change.

Until we get official confirmation with the Devs, I will stick to my interpretation from the development journal, along with my discussions with the devs. I can't help if our interpretations are different.

Though I do stand corrected on the starting of a new town piece. Thank you.


12/19/2016 2:53:04 PM #15
+1

Posted By Adam Burrfoot at 3:36 PM - Mon Dec 19 2016

I disagree with your interpretation, which is why I wrote this guide in the first place. Elsewhere in the dev journal it specifically states:

"Another thing to note, in the event a power struggle does occur and a noble is forced to fill the seat of a lesser noble, they can only do so with the lesser noble’s peers, or one step below. So if a duke is tossed out or dies, the spot can only be filled with another duke or a count. Likewise, a Mayor that is removed from power can only be replaced by another Mayor, or by someone else who owns land within the settlement."

Due to this, I am led to believe that in order to CB for a specific title, you will need to be of that same title or one step lower. This would specifically mean that only Aristocrats can CB a Count, only a Count can CB a Duke, only a Duke can CB a King and so on.

Until we get official confirmation with the Devs, I will stick to my interpretation from the development journal, along with my discussions with the devs. I can't help if our interpretations are different.

Though I do stand corrected on the starting of a new town piece. Thank you.

I also hope for Dev clarifications and i hope that your position and influence will have more success than my so far unsuccessfull try.

my hope is not to be right but to know the true stuff be it mine or yours or something else i just want to get out of the grey zone at least on those subjects that are importent before land selection.

My posts are at your disposal for edditing and removal as you see fit. Your guide is a great one and i do not want to polute it.


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