You! You stole my idea! ;-) That's what you get for being lazy kids!
Just two things. The king is 'Sire' and not 'Sir'. A small but important difference.
And you missed out on the grand Duke. Though I agree that the title has a somewhat.... Troubled history in Central Europe the grand Duke is part of the royalty and by that a royal highness.
This is nicely written, and is good information, not sure if it a general discussion thread though or if it would be better served in the roleplaying forum.
more edits to come... I stupidly forgot to reserve the first comment as well...
This is all based on modern usage, and neglects to acknowledge that different cultures of Europe had different ways of doing things. For example, a Spanish Duke is called Your Excellency, not Your Grace.
As important as it is to acknowledge the historical workings of these titles, it's also important to acknowledge that there is no established wrong way to do things in the cultures of Elyria. If you, as a duke or king, chose to adopt systems closely matching conventions established in Earth's history, that will certainly heighten the immersion for some. But let's not pin anyone down creatively or culturally by calling them fools, shall we?
depending on the kingdom there was also a form of introduction for counts, and earls, for a duke you would use duke wich is ''please welcome, his grace, the duke of ...'' for a count count you would use ''please welcome, the right honorable, the count of ...''
Posted By Bombastus at 12:20 AM - Tue Jan 17 2017
This is all based on modern usage, and neglects to acknowledge that different cultures of Europe had different ways of doing things. For example, a Spanish Duke is called Your Excellency, not Your Grace.
As important as it is to acknowledge the historical workings of these titles, it's also important to acknowledge that there is no established wrong way to do things in the cultures of Elyria. If you, as a duke or king, chose to adopt systems closely matching conventions established in Earth's history, that will certainly heighten the immersion for some. But let's not pin anyone down creatively or culturally by calling them fools, shall we?
That comment had to come. Just see it as historical context for people who care and want to use it for their RP. Of course you are right, he is referring to the modern British titles. There are loads of different titles and ways to address them in Central Europe and England alone. And than we still didn't take into account the Eastern or Western parts of Europe. Or Asia. Or India. Or the time of midage we are talking about. But why pretend it's rocket science? It's a nice PA.
Posted By Bombastus at 5:20 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
This is all based on modern usage, and neglects to acknowledge that different cultures of Europe had different ways of doing things. For example, a Spanish Duke is called Your Excellency, not Your Grace.
As important as it is to acknowledge the historical workings of these titles, it's also important to acknowledge that there is no established wrong way to do things in the cultures of Elyria. If you, as a duke or king, chose to adopt systems closely matching conventions established in Earth's history, that will certainly heighten the immersion for some. But let's not pin anyone down creatively or culturally by calling them fools, shall we?
Yes as I see where you're coming from, I have added a tips and warnings section at the bottom to add that this is mostly based off of the British Monarchy system and although I did say "making a fool of ourselves." It has never been my intention to say that people who mess this up are fools. I saw it more or less as a figure of speech as to say, "Man, they just really have no idea what they are doing." and I myself am guilty of this as you have pointed out there are several different Monarchical systems out there each with a different preference.
You went from Duke to Baron, but Count was a pledge tier as well.
Also known as AvA in Discord.
I Should point out a lot of people who are not interested in RP will refuse to speak this way, and others will refuse to do so on principle. for instance if i know a king has earned himself down out of the level of respect deserved by your average person, i will address him as such, regardless of the consequences. if he has done a good job i will address him as i address everyone else who has done a good job at what is arguably a very very difficult job, with a great amount of respect, but in the manner that i show such respect, and not any other.
Posted By Bazak at 6:16 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
I Should point out a lot of people who are not interested in RP will refuse to speak this way, and others will refuse to do so on principle. for instance if i know a king has earned himself down out of the level of respect deserved by your average person, i will address him as such, regardless of the consequences. if he has done a good job i will address him as i address everyone else who has done a good job at what is arguably a very very difficult job, with a great amount of respect, but in the manner that i show such respect, and not any other.
I think this is an important distinction to make. On the one hand there's playing the role of nobility in a game and on the other is actual nobility who required respect as a matter of life and death and the preservation of government. Forms of address will vary accordingly.
Posted By cjmarsh at 9:37 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
Posted By Bazak at 6:16 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
I Should point out a lot of people who are not interested in RP will refuse to speak this way, and others will refuse to do so on principle. for instance if i know a king has earned himself down out of the level of respect deserved by your average person, i will address him as such, regardless of the consequences. if he has done a good job i will address him as i address everyone else who has done a good job at what is arguably a very very difficult job, with a great amount of respect, but in the manner that i show such respect, and not any other.
I think this is an important distinction to make. On the one hand there's playing the role of nobility in a game and on the other is actual nobility who required respect as a matter of life and death and the preservation of government. Forms of address will vary accordingly.
Indeed, i think the smart rulers will not seek to impose a specific form of address to those with titles. though considering this is just a game, and death does not have the same consequences, i don't think severe enough disrespect being punished would be bad.
if i run into a king somehow and start spewing vile invectives at him and slandering his name with lies, a quick trial to make a point that slandering people is not nice and a punishment (fitting the crime), would not be out of place i think. but then again most of the things i would consider severe disrespect would be considered minor crimes anyways so......
either way trying to enforce forms of address for royalty, nobility and aristocracy, is probably a bad idea if you want people to be happy with your ruling them.
I would be more interested in what you would suggest we use for addressing the titles in CoE than the british monarchy. For example, I would never use Ma'am when talking about my "in-game" Queen.
I would also make a distinguish between the aristocracy and the nobility, so "Your Majesty/Sovereign/Royal Highness/Eminence" might be used for the King/Queen, and highness just generally for the royal family, "Lord/Sire/(Grace If higher ranked noble aren't present)" for dukes and Lord/lady for Counts. And then for the aristocracy "Sir" or something like that.
Though I agree with Bombastus, maybe mention that you're basing it off the modern british monarchy, still a nice list though.
Posted By AvariciaMoon at 8:02 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
You went from Duke to Baron, but Count was a pledge tier as well.
Yes that is true, However they also fall into the category of Lord's and Lady's.
Posted By Bazak at 9:06 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
Posted By cjmarsh at 9:37 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
Posted By Bazak at 6:16 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
I Should point out a lot of people who are not interested in RP will refuse to speak this way, and others will refuse to do so on principle. for instance if i know a king has earned himself down out of the level of respect deserved by your average person, i will address him as such, regardless of the consequences. if he has done a good job i will address him as i address everyone else who has done a good job at what is arguably a very very difficult job, with a great amount of respect, but in the manner that i show such respect, and not any other.
I think this is an important distinction to make. On the one hand there's playing the role of nobility in a game and on the other is actual nobility who required respect as a matter of life and death and the preservation of government. Forms of address will vary accordingly.
Indeed, i think the smart rulers will not seek to impose a specific form of address to those with titles. though considering this is just a game, and death does not have the same consequences, i don't think severe enough disrespect being punished would be bad.
if i run into a king somehow and start spewing vile invectives at him and slandering his name with lies, a quick trial to make a point that slandering people is not nice and a punishment (fitting the crime), would not be out of place i think. but then again most of the things i would consider severe disrespect would be considered minor crimes anyways so......
either way trying to enforce forms of address for royalty, nobility and aristocracy, is probably a bad idea if you want people to be happy with your ruling them.
not really trying to enforce anything just inform. I know several people (including myself before typing this article up) that just have no clue any proper way of addressing their superiors. Again it all depends on how much stalk you want to put into rp and if this is not something you are interested in doing, its not something you have to do so long as it doesn't somehow cost you within your kingdom and others to just ignore this.
Posted By Liva at 9:22 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
I would be more interested in what you would suggest we use for addressing the titles in CoE than the british monarchy. For example, I would never use Ma'am when talking about my "in-game" Queen.
I would also make a distinguish between the aristocracy and the nobility, so "Your Majesty/Sovereign/Royal Highness/Eminence" might be used for the King/Queen, and highness just generally for the royal family, "Lord/Sire/(Grace If higher ranked noble aren't present)" for dukes and Lord/lady for Counts. And then for the aristocracy "Sir" or something like that.
Though I agree with Bombastus, maybe mention that you're basing it off the modern british monarchy, still a nice list though.
I think the idea of creating a new addressing system is almost something we as a whole should come up with. I think I got the ball started with this post and would gladly go about creating a new system but, I would strongly urge others to make proposals as well.
Posted By kuthedk at 10:36 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
Posted By AvariciaMoon at 8:02 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
You went from Duke to Baron, but Count was a pledge tier as well.
Yes that is true, However they also fall into the category of Lord's and Lady's.
Posted By Bazak at 9:06 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
Posted By cjmarsh at 9:37 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
Posted By Bazak at 6:16 PM - Mon Jan 16 2017
I Should point out a lot of people who are not interested in RP will refuse to speak this way, and others will refuse to do so on principle. for instance if i know a king has earned himself down out of the level of respect deserved by your average person, i will address him as such, regardless of the consequences. if he has done a good job i will address him as i address everyone else who has done a good job at what is arguably a very very difficult job, with a great amount of respect, but in the manner that i show such respect, and not any other.
I think this is an important distinction to make. On the one hand there's playing the role of nobility in a game and on the other is actual nobility who required respect as a matter of life and death and the preservation of government. Forms of address will vary accordingly.
Indeed, i think the smart rulers will not seek to impose a specific form of address to those with titles. though considering this is just a game, and death does not have the same consequences, i don't think severe enough disrespect being punished would be bad.
if i run into a king somehow and start spewing vile invectives at him and slandering his name with lies, a quick trial to make a point that slandering people is not nice and a punishment (fitting the crime), would not be out of place i think. but then again most of the things i would consider severe disrespect would be considered minor crimes anyways so......
either way trying to enforce forms of address for royalty, nobility and aristocracy, is probably a bad idea if you want people to be happy with your ruling them.
not really trying to enforce anything just inform. I know several people (including myself before typing this article up) that just have no clue any proper way of addressing their superiors. Again it all depends on how much stalk you want to put into rp and if this is not something you are interested in doing, its not something you have to do so long as it doesn't somehow cost you within your kingdom and others to just ignore this.
probably would have been better to put this into the RP forum then, general is not the best place for this. as the assumption most would have (without you mentioning and making it clear in your first paragraph)
