The game won't have tab targeting so why are you crying about how great it is?

I'll be happy if it turns out similar to For Honor, minus the subtle auto-aim/teleport some skills seem to have.

I don't really see aim vs tab as more skillful to each other. Usually tab targeting games have more decision making than aim based games. Unfortunately like in WoW most people don't take the time to get good enough to understand the depth of the mechanics. Yeah, in WoW you may be able to keep a win rate of 40% out of minimal knowledge and button mash but you certainly wont be getting the gladiator achievement doing that (reaching the 1% of players in arena).

It's kinda like the noob tube mechanic in FPS games. It's empowering because a noob can score easy kills on other new or even average players but it won't get you anywhere on a ranked ladder so saying that FPS games don't require skill because you can noob tube is crazy. Spamming tab target games is there noob tube. It will work if your a casual but I have yet to see a Arena player with 2800+ Points be beaten by a spammer. It's usually a flawless victory.

Back to the point they use 2 different types of skills. Aim and directional based games use reflex skills where tab targeting games usually have much more decision making in their combat and is more about knowing what your opponent is going to do and acting on that. Aim vs Target is the battle of Physical vs. Mental Skill.

Posted By Wicked FlamezZ at 5:49 PM - Sat Feb 25 2017

Aim and directional based games use reflex skills where tab targeting games usually have much more decision making in their combat and is more about knowing what your opponent is going to do and acting on that. Aim vs Target is the battle of Physical vs. Mental Skill.

I don't know if i would say that's accurate.

In darkfall, which was pure aim and reflex based, there were 10 schools of magic that each had their own color of casting animation (purple squiggles was witchcraft, red flames was fire, etc) that you could see on other people before they finished casting a spell. Every school had a dozen-odd spells, but the most common spells became recognized and anticipated by their school's animation.

In a single duel, all ten of those schools of magic might come out and each one had a different likely outcome and required a change in decision making: Greater magic - incoming blind - look up or away. Witchcraft - if offensive, debuffing, if running away, healing. Lightning - if offensive, dps, if running away, hes about to stormblast and propel himself out.

It goes on and on. And that was just the magic schools, and does not get into when to pull bow or pull melee, feint melee, or any of that.

Darkfall was the only game i played that meshed reflex and aim with the critical need for split-second decision making under a staggering number of different circumstances and contexts all at once.

It did show me that the most engaging pvp comes from that mixture of true aim with the constant need for decision making. Tab target might get half of that, but it misses a critical element as well.

So, I grabbed this video for everyone of Caspian & Walrus having a little PvP match at Pax east. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_g9WGSht5Y

In it you can see a clear aim for where they're planning to take combat. (Which is a road I absolutely adore.) It's like a mix between Skyrim(especially after modding combat), DarkSouls, and Soul Calibur. You can see at the beginning of the video, the skills work on a left mouse button, right mouse button combo system. So, different click combinations will lead you down different skill trees much like Soul Cal or, I guess street fighter is a good example too. So, light+light+light=Combo 1. Heavy+Heavy+Heavy=Combo 2. light+light+heavy=Combo 3. Etc. etc. with all your skills.

On top of that, you appear to be able to dodge/dash in all directions. I'm assuming that's a simple double tap of the direction you want to dodge, but it might be more detailed. Who knows. Finally, you have your parry which is shift+click, which is more effective based upon your timing, and blocking of course if you have a buckler/shield. Which, I'm also going to assume has better benefits for timed blocking.

All of these actions of course is going to consume stamina, which needs to be wisely rationed among actions. So, if your battle tactic is to run in spamming clicks, then you'll most likely end up dead. On the other side of the board, you could also die from not be aggressive enough and simply getting pressured, wasting your stam dodging & parrying all the time. So, if you had a large stamina pool, maybe mindlessly wailing wouldn't be a bad idea. XD

Finally, different weapons have different effect on different armors & vice versa. Along with what I believe to be locational damage. So, if you're wearing chain-mail & I've got a rapier... it might be a bad day for you. On the other hand, if you have a war-hammer & you notice my character has an old leg injury, hammering away at that leg could be beneficial to you. Potentially giving me a limp in the midst of battle, or maybe disarming me if you're assaulting my arm.

That's where the beauty of build + gear + player skill would come into play. What weapons are you using? What armor are you wearing? What stats do you have? And how efficient are you as a player in the midst of combat? Are you going to lose your head if I take an early lead, or will you keep your cool & fight for 1 hp comeback out of nowhere?(Which is practically limited to fighting styles like this. As seen in all your popular fighters.)

Even more so, what will you do if mid battle I say screw this, and start throwing fire balls at you? Will you be off-put & distraught by the randomness, or will you keep in mind that there's got to be a limit to what I'm doing?

Then there's 2v1's + Can you handle more than one player at once? Just because they out number you & have better gear doesn't particularly mean they can outplay you. I think the PvP in this game will be anything, but boring.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that it does appear getting hit cancels your attacks with a stun as I previously mentioned. So if you're coming in with a heavy swing, perhaps my best course of action would be a quick jab to interrupt your swing. Perhaps not. Perhaps I thought it about just a little too long & your swing connects before my jab. Oh the possibilities. :D

Posted By Vucar at 11:28 PM - Sat Feb 25 2017

Posted By Wicked FlamezZ at 5:49 PM - Sat Feb 25 2017

Aim and directional based games use reflex skills where tab targeting games usually have much more decision making in their combat and is more about knowing what your opponent is going to do and acting on that. Aim vs Target is the battle of Physical vs. Mental Skill.

I don't know if i would say that's accurate.

In darkfall, which was pure aim and reflex based, there were 10 schools of magic that each had their own color of casting animation (purple squiggles was witchcraft, red flames was fire, etc) that you could see on other people before they finished casting a spell. Every school had a dozen-odd spells, but the most common spells became recognized and anticipated by their school's animation.

In a single duel, all ten of those schools of magic might come out and each one had a different likely outcome and required a change in decision making: Greater magic - incoming blind - look up or away. Witchcraft - if offensive, debuffing, if running away, healing. Lightning - if offensive, dps, if running away, hes about to stormblast and propel himself out.

It goes on and on. And that was just the magic schools, and does not get into when to pull bow or pull melee, feint melee, or any of that.

Darkfall was the only game i played that meshed reflex and aim with the critical need for split-second decision making under a staggering number of different circumstances and contexts all at once.

It did show me that the most engaging pvp comes from that mixture of true aim with the constant need for decision making. Tab target might get half of that, but it misses a critical element as well.

I said "usually". Your saying darkfall is the only game and it's been ~2+ decades. Outliers exist in every grouping of anything.

Full aim games miss critical elements of that as well. You can't say mixing them is the best result than only say one misses out when they aren't.

Yeah mixing them would be better than either one of them solo but either one of them solo isn't better than each other. Psychologically it seems to be a tendency for people to think reflex and aim is always more skillful than the mental battle. Kinda of like how there are big groups of people that still think there is no skill in competitive gaming compared to football. People on average want to believe that physical traits have more merit in relation to skill.