An added question to this is how easy is it for the robber/killer to be tracked foi bounty. Can a person stay mobile and evade the bounty hunters indefinitely or is there a good chance they can be caught. If the chance to evade capture is good, would it not be more beneficial to live a life of crime and steal/kill than to live safe and pay taxes? I know there is prison and you can lose skills if captured, but how easy is it to GET captured.

My understanding is that you can get a bounty if players or NPCs realize you broke the law. The Mayors, Counts, Dukes, and Kings will decide on laws for their area. Eyewitness accounts will probably carry some weight, but my understanding is that there will also be a forensics/criminal investigation skill that can be used to collect evidence. I haven't heard much information about the specifics of that.

I think it will be up to the players to decide how long the bounty will last and to spread the word that you are a wanted man. I'm sure the nature and frequency of crimes committed by a player will have an influence on how far word spreads and how long people actively hunt for you. that and politics between kingdoms will probably also play a role in whether or not you will be safer if you cross a border. Someone with a higher bounty will be higher priority for bounty hunters assuming they think they have the skill to capture you. I have no idea how difficult tracking will be.

i'm also not sure exactly how reputation will work. It may be that both getting a bounty and being tried and sentenced will effect your reputation, but I don't know for sure.

Here is a deeper question.

Did anyone see you do it? If not, don't worry about it and don't talk about it.

If someone did see you do it, why were you so reckless?

On the question of whether you will be able to evade people forever:. You have to ask yourself, how good are you at picking hiding places to stand in 20 hours a day (assuming you actively play 4 hours a day)? You can be captured and brought in by the law while offline.

For a single murder or two, I could see a bounty lasting a full month IRL. Serial killer, that I could see lasting between 3 to 6 months from the time of the last incident. Essentially any bounties will depend on the leadership, the laws of the land, and the severity of the crime (s). There will be no one size fits all answer to this.

I hope the duration reflects the crime. For a mere case of trespassing or pickpocket I hope the time is short however for multiple murders I can hope for a month if not longer. And possibly the bounty from one kingdom can be enforced in another if you have the token.

Everyone brings up very interesting aspects to this part of the game. As far as setting duration of punishment, would it not fall back to the king or some form of the hierarchy to determine punishment? It would also fall on the responsibility of the nobles to ensure proper 'policing' is in place so we don't have rampant crime. If the king as in real life cuts policing funding, naturally crime would increase. I would love to see the game world imitate this in some form.

My understanding is a player can be the witness to their own murder since we don't really die just suffer "grievous wounds" spirit walk back and recover. NPCs don't and for now are just dead.

So kill a NPC without a witness you're golden. Kill a player who looks exactly like an NPC and they pop back into existence with a bounty token for whoever killed them. The caveat to this are fake IDs and disguises. If I don't know who you are I need someone with bardic skills to find the evidence of who you were so I can get a token. If you use a fake ID of someone I know but not too well I would likely get a token for them not you.

Truth is right now beyond speculation we cannot answer the question completely. We do know framing people will be a thing. Won't be easy and will require considerable investment not just in the skill needed but in learning their habits and such. (See the DJ on identities)

Posted By Gothix at 5:52 PM - Fri Mar 17 2017

Posted By Malais at 10:03 PM - Fri Mar 17 2017

My understanding is a player can be the witness to their own murder since we don't really die just suffer "grievous wounds" spirit walk back and recover. NPCs don't and for now are just dead.

I don't like this. It feels like we will be playing Buffy the vampire slayer, and zombies come back from grave and testify...

We may as well call this Chronicles of Carebears soon...

If prefect crime is committed, without witnesses and evidence and game mechanics still force punishment upon perpetrator by letting victim testify... then I'm really disappointed.

We may as well leave only those who want to play Farmville here and move on, because if deviant players will be stepped on by over-punishing game mechanics on every step then what's the point of even trying.

Murder victims should not be allowed to testify, it makes no sense whatsoever, and if they are then perpetrators should be allowed to turn to bat and fly away from court house, it makes as much sense as the first thing.

You need something to keep the world from devolving into large roving groups of PKs who always get away with it because they focus fire people down before they can run and tell anyone. That would become the optimal path to accumulate wealth and power and the game would become a wasteland like any other no consequences no safe zones full PvP game.

Posted By Kaynadin at 8:32 PM - Fri Mar 17 2017

Posted By Gothix at 5:52 PM - Fri Mar 17 2017

Posted By Malais at 10:03 PM - Fri Mar 17 2017

My understanding is a player can be the witness to their own murder since we don't really die just suffer "grievous wounds" spirit walk back and recover. NPCs don't and for now are just dead.

I don't like this. It feels like we will be playing Buffy the vampire slayer, and zombies come back from grave and testify...

We may as well call this Chronicles of Carebears soon...

If prefect crime is committed, without witnesses and evidence and game mechanics still force punishment upon perpetrator by letting victim testify... then I'm really disappointed.

We may as well leave only those who want to play Farmville here and move on, because if deviant players will be stepped on by over-punishing game mechanics on every step then what's the point of even trying.

Murder victims should not be allowed to testify, it makes no sense whatsoever, and if they are then perpetrators should be allowed to turn to bat and fly away from court house, it makes as much sense as the first thing.

You need something to keep the world from devolving into large roving groups of PKs who always get away with it because they focus fire people down before they can run and tell anyone. That would become the optimal path to accumulate wealth and power and the game would become a wasteland like any other no consequences no safe zones full PvP game.

Seriously. Returning to life is part of the game and its lore, and therefore, the world itself. A system of penalties exists exactly so that people will be deterred from turning into complete asshats. What would be the purpose of that protection if "the perfect crime" could be done at whim?

Posted By Kaynadin at 8:32 PM - Fri Mar 17 2017

Posted By Gothix at 5:52 PM - Fri Mar 17 2017

Posted By Malais at 10:03 PM - Fri Mar 17 2017

My understanding is a player can be the witness to their own murder since we don't really die just suffer "grievous wounds" spirit walk back and recover. NPCs don't and for now are just dead.

I don't like this. It feels like we will be playing Buffy the vampire slayer, and zombies come back from grave and testify...

We may as well call this Chronicles of Carebears soon...

If prefect crime is committed, without witnesses and evidence and game mechanics still force punishment upon perpetrator by letting victim testify... then I'm really disappointed.

We may as well leave only those who want to play Farmville here and move on, because if deviant players will be stepped on by over-punishing game mechanics on every step then what's the point of even trying.

Murder victims should not be allowed to testify, it makes no sense whatsoever, and if they are then perpetrators should be allowed to turn to bat and fly away from court house, it makes as much sense as the first thing.

You need something to keep the world from devolving into large roving groups of PKs who always get away with it because they focus fire people down before they can run and tell anyone. That would become the optimal path to accumulate wealth and power and the game would become a wasteland like any other no consequences no safe zones full PvP game.

I highly doubt it will ever get that bad, as realistic as you want to be in game there is always voip. If said killer, kills 2 people, the whole town may know before you can leave the location.

Posted By Gothix at 09:52 AM - Sat Mar 18 2017

Murder victims should not be allowed to testify, it makes no sense whatsoever, and if they are then perpetrators should be allowed to turn to bat and fly away from court house, it makes as much sense as the first thing.

Well that depends on a lot of things really. If you are meaning you kill someone without them seeing you at all. Then sure that would make sense. But not like you can go right up to someone and kill them while looking into their eyes and think you can get away with murder.

Imagine the opposite scenario, where you have a world where people "come back to life" and yet cannot testify who killed them. Think of this in a realistic sense, if resurrection or whatever you want to call it was realistic. If you were killed and saw very clearly who did it, and then came back to life, would you not immediately testify that the person killed you?

In the game sense, it would be impractical to design a system where you could be seen by your victim and yet they cannot testify when they revive. Why? Because we can simply say "so and so killed me" even if the system didn't track it or did what you wanted it to do. Therefore punishment could still be dished out and likely far more harshly, to the full extent, to make up for you keeping your precious spirit lifetime.

For criminals to fit into this world they have to adhere to the same risk vs reward model the rest of us do. That's not a carebear mentality that is just logic. You are playing a game centered around risk and reward but you want to make it riskier for others and eliminate the risk for yourself. You want others to lose playtime and possessions while you risk nothing to take it from them. Who sounds like the carebear now?

I mean for real, pvpers and more specifically criminals are important for the world to be interesting but these guys planning to be criminals come off as real wusses on the forums.

if the people who governs leaves criminals spread in their city is like putting a knife to the neck, at least what I think, the criminals who have killed or stolen,you can expect to be is persecuted for bounty and for their stolen property or perhaps even the influelze points if ever put into the game :P