COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Deviant Start

How would one begin novice training as a mischievous deviant without arousing suspicion and getting into trouble? Can you break into your own house per se? What about masquerading under false documents and pickpocketing? Is there some way to avoid trouble until you believe you are prepared to go out and try it against other PCs? And would OPCs and NPCs react accordingly to a crime? Just curious really.

Maybe guilds can create a hitman-esque training simulation with varying degrees of difficulty. Got any other ideas?


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4/27/2017 1:59:10 PM #31

Posted By Mythos Cardan at 12:19 AM - Thu Apr 27 2017

Deviants are as much part of this community as any other play style, I think you have very narrow and limited view of what term deviant means in relation to COE, and they will be in every barony, county, duchy or kingdom, good ones will be doing variety of services to high ranking members of this community , think of them as spice that adds flavor to the dish, to much of it ruins it, not enough of it makes the dish bland.

I didn't say excommunicate them for the community. I only advised caution when saying openly that one would harbor deviants. If it is known that some lord is harboring thieves and bandits, they may get a bad rep among PCs/NPCs. If it is known a lord is harboring assassins/other types of deviants for the purpose of intrigue and other such activities, that is hardly any better, as that is almost a direct threat to other lords.


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4/27/2017 3:15:46 PM #32

Posted By Mythos Cardan at 12:19 AM - Thu Apr 27 2017

Deviants are as much part of this community as any other play style, I think you have very narrow and limited view of what term deviant means in relation to COE, and they will be in every barony, county, duchy or kingdom, good ones will be doing variety of services to high ranking members of this community , think of them as spice that adds flavor to the dish, to much of it ruins it, not enough of it makes the dish bland.

Thank you for that

Posted By Apaukolypse at 06:59 AM - Thu Apr 27 2017

I didn't say excommunicate them for the community. I only advised caution when saying openly that one would harbor deviants. If it is known that some lord is harboring thieves and bandits, they may get a bad rep among PCs/NPCs. If it is known a lord is harboring assassins/other types of deviants for the purpose of intrigue and other such activities, that is hardly any better, as that is almost a direct threat to other lords.

I can't see why a Kingdom would look around the map and start marking deviant-harboring Kingdoms for war just because of the fact. That's like going to war because one country was racist against the other cough cough Bush cough. Now, if things get out of hand and toes get stepped on then it becomes an issue. What a Kingdom does within its walls is no one Else's business unless it becomes their business directly. As for being open about their association to Deviants? Remember, not all deviants are going for an evil approach but even if they were it still falls under the "myob" rule anyway. Some Kingdoms, especially smaller ones, benefit highly with "deviants" around; more than larger ones will and most will utilize such characters a lot better than others. Gotta have an open mind with these things...


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4/27/2017 3:37:02 PM #33

Posted By Grim at 11:15 AM - Thu Apr 27 2017

Posted By Apaukolypse at 06:59 AM - Thu Apr 27 2017

I didn't say excommunicate them for the community. I only advised caution when saying openly that one would harbor deviants. If it is known that some lord is harboring thieves and bandits, they may get a bad rep among PCs/NPCs. If it is known a lord is harboring assassins/other types of deviants for the purpose of intrigue and other such activities, that is hardly any better, as that is almost a direct threat to other lords.

I can't see why a Kingdom would look around the map and start marking deviant-harboring Kingdoms for war just because of the fact. That's like going to war because one country was racist against the other cough cough Bush cough. Now, if things get out of hand and toes get stepped on then it becomes an issue. What a Kingdom does within its walls is no one Else's business unless it becomes their business directly. As for being open about their association to Deviants? Remember, not all deviants are going for an evil approach but even if they were it still falls under the "myob" rule anyway. Some Kingdoms, especially smaller ones, benefit highly with "deviants" around; more than larger ones will and most will utilize such characters a lot better than others. Gotta have an open mind with these things...

I also don't remember saying "IF YOU HARBOR DEVIANTS, EVERYONE IN THE SERVER WILL COME TO KILL YOU!1!1". I can't tell if you two are trying to Strawman me or legitimately don't understand my point.

To help you understand what I am saying, lets use some real life examples: The whole Edward Snowden/NSA thing and Vault7. Both were leaks that the US had the means to spy on other countries and was actively doing so. Both cases made the international community give the US a dirty look. They didn't DECLARE WAR on the US, but that definitely did not help the US diplomatically and it took alot of sweeping under the rug.

Why is this relevant to CoE and this conversation? Because announcing to the world that you have the means of Spying on other lords, and are actively doing so, is essentially what you are doing when you publicly announce you are harboring deviants.(So basically, you are just wikileaking yourself).

I don't care about the morality of the deviants. They can be the most 140% loyal to their country, Robin Hood kind of deviant. That doesn't make them less of a deviant. If they are a thief, they are still a thief. If they are a spy, they are still a spy. If they are an assassin, they are still an assassin. All are dangerous things, their morals and ethics just make them dangerous to different people. The people they threaten would be foolish to take such threats lightly. To think otherwise is, as the guy you thanked earlier said, "Narrow Minded".

So I say again, I don't want to excommunicate them from the community, I understand exactly where they fit in the community, I just don't think you do.


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4/27/2017 3:42:56 PM #34

Posted By Icelus_Blade at

How would one begin novice training as a mischievous deviant without arousing suspicion and getting into trouble? Can you break into your own house per se? What about masquerading under false documents and pickpocketing? Is there some way to avoid trouble until you believe you are prepared to go out and try it against other PCs? And would OPCs and NPCs react accordingly to a crime? Just curious really.

Maybe guilds can create a hitman-esque training simulation with varying degrees of difficulty. Got any other ideas?

Without having all the knowledge of mechanics, it's hard to say. But I do have ideas for it as I plan on having a building(s) or section of my home setup for this kind of stuff. As of now I'm thinking of multiple doors with increased difficulty in the lock that is used for lock picking. As far as assassinations goes, you could make arrangements with people. Agree that a CDG is off limits but that you may engage the other in combat at any time whether they are at home or not.


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4/28/2017 6:21:09 PM #35

Posted By Apaukolypse at 08:37 AM - Thu Apr 27 2017

I also don't remember saying "IF YOU HARBOR DEVIANTS, EVERYONE IN THE SERVER WILL COME TO KILL YOU!1!1". I can't tell if you two are trying to Strawman me or legitimately don't understand my point.

To help you understand what I am saying, lets use some real life examples: The whole Edward Snowden/NSA thing and Vault7. Both were leaks that the US had the means to spy on other countries and was actively doing so. Both cases made the international community give the US a dirty look. They didn't DECLARE WAR on the US, but that definitely did not help the US diplomatically and it took alot of sweeping under the rug.

Why is this relevant to CoE and this conversation? Because announcing to the world that you have the means of Spying on other lords, and are actively doing so, is essentially what you are doing when you publicly announce you are harboring deviants.(So basically, you are just wikileaking yourself).

I don't care about the morality of the deviants. They can be the most 140% loyal to their country, Robin Hood kind of deviant. That doesn't make them less of a deviant. If they are a thief, they are still a thief. If they are a spy, they are still a spy. If they are an assassin, they are still an assassin. All are dangerous things, their morals and ethics just make them dangerous to different people. The people they threaten would be foolish to take such threats lightly. To think otherwise is, as the guy you thanked earlier said, "Narrow Minded".

So I say again, I don't want to excommunicate them from the community, I understand exactly where they fit in the community, I just don't think you do.

Ok now I can clearly see where you're coming from. I can agree that letting it be publicly known that your nation will have something like spies or harbor thieves and brigands would be a bad deal for said nation reputation- wise. Here is where things start getting a bit twisted: where some of the nations announcing they'd have all these things might gain bad reputation and distance themselves from others due to this bold reveal it could be that that is their objective. Maybe they wanted to be viewed that way and for the sake of their kingdom lore.

While publicly recruiting spies could be a bad thing, this could also be a bait and switch to distance themselves and maybe in an effort for peace "stay away from that kingdom, they're a bunch of ruffians". That or they didn't think it through hahaha. As for assassins, revealing such is a double edged sword. I make it known what I plan to do and it can net me some business in the future. But it can also put a big Target on my back and make it hard to function in-game. It's a playstyle I chose though so I won't / can't complain and neither can the others whether they were concious of the possible consequences or not.

All in all you make a valid point, sir. We'll just have to see how these ideas pan out...


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4/28/2017 6:39:06 PM #36

I've already started training deviancy


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4/28/2017 7:46:01 PM #37

For training pickpocketing perhaps make contact whit a local guard trainer or other people, able to make a contract that allow you or others to pickpocket certain items from the guards or other persons, by convincing said guard trainer or person that you are actually training the guards in detecting and preventing pickpocketing. Perhaps you eventually turn to a career in crime or perhaps you establish yourself as a respected security expert instructing guards in crime prevention techniques.

For every crime affiliated label there is usually a formal and respected label, someone says thief I think security expert, someone says spy I think intelligence officer, someone says assassin I think covert ops specialist.


4/28/2017 7:51:59 PM #38

Posted By SebastianYngve at 2:46 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

For training pickpocketing perhaps make contact whit a local guard trainer or other people, able to make a contract that allow you or others to pickpocket certain items from the guards or other persons, by convincing said guard trainer or person that you are actually training the guards in detecting and preventing pickpocketing. Perhaps you eventually turn to a career in crime or perhaps you establish yourself as a respected security expert instructing guards in crime prevention techniques.

I can't tell if you're being serious, but if a "guard" is there to enforce the law/protect someone's property, asking them to help you improve your stealing skills is akin to asking a police officer to practice your mugging or larceny skills. In other words, NOT ADVISABLE.


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4/28/2017 8:18:31 PM #39

Posted By COECipher at 9:51 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Posted By SebastianYngve at 2:46 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

For training pickpocketing perhaps make contact whit a local guard trainer or other people, able to make a contract that allow you or others to pickpocket certain items from the guards or other persons, by convincing said guard trainer or person that you are actually training the guards in detecting and preventing pickpocketing. Perhaps you eventually turn to a career in crime or perhaps you establish yourself as a respected security expert instructing guards in crime prevention techniques.

I can't tell if you're being serious, but if a "guard" is there to enforce the law/protect someone's property, asking them to help you improve your stealing skills is akin to asking a police officer to practice your mugging or larceny skills. In other words, NOT ADVISABLE.

Guards have to be trained somehow, and why not trough controlled circumstances by a contract. And if you think a concerned citizen asking questions on how guards include detecting pickpocketing in their training and suggesting practical training by contract would be to suspicious, maybe join the guards for a while and bring up the concern during training. If the training is successful you now have merits to argue for the expansion of this practice in new towns and cities you wander to.


4/28/2017 8:50:46 PM #40

I'd just train with targets that dont lose much by being faked. Lets say you masquerade and behave like a specific but besides that just any random farmer and walk through his village and greet the other people.

When he comes back himself, some people would find it weird to see him from the same direction again, but nothing evil happens if people just seem to have a deja-vu. However, you might get masquerade skills by doing this. If you directly go there and kill someone and run away, you might get in trouble. So start with training you skills on easy targets and without causing much trouble.

If your first skilltest is masquerading as a king to get a child from his queen... now this might get you into trouble.

There is nothing wrong with testing deviant stuff, as long as you dont cause trouble, nothing bad should happen. And lets say you get caught while 'playing' any random farmer... what are they gonna do about it? kill you for stealing any random farmers identity? I doubt that. Either you might get a warning or not get caught at all. Go for easy targets and there shouldnt be a problem.


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4/30/2017 2:52:49 AM #41

Dude... It is not like you will really go to jail for years if you are caught pickpocketing. Worst case you just gotta leg it, they wont send the SWAT on you.

A newbie deviant will probably be like a deliquent. Breaking into private property, threatening weaker people, pickpocketing, etc...


4/30/2017 5:54:47 AM #42

In Mortal Online my cousin and I sat in the middle of nowhere and attempted stealing from each other over and over to skill up. Not sure if that would work in CoE.


4/30/2017 6:22:03 AM #43

As a rule, and crime will attract attention. The Count or local Baron will resultantly crack down on it.

However if you have a friendly count, they may have ways for you to put your skills to use....

Contact your count and ask :)


4/30/2017 4:26:20 PM #44

Posted By Oracle at 11:22 PM - Sat Apr 29 2017

As a rule, and crime will attract attention. The Count or local Baron will resultantly crack down on it.

However if you have a friendly count, they may have ways for you to put your skills to use....

Contact your count and ask :)

This. Myrkul is with you, friend...


Myrkul is always with us...

4/30/2017 4:32:08 PM #45

I've seen it mentioned that several kingdoms will have assassins guilds that operate for the kingdoms and under the radar. Honestly I think getting some organization that handles the "front" side of business for you in regards to equipment and meeting up with clients that way you can limit your outside exposure. The underground area can have instructors who teach you the arts and issue you the jobs you need to take. That's how I'd do it. Then you would have a safe haven to run to and you "don't exist" as the term goes.

Doesn't have to be a kingdom sponsoring, but I'd definitely get a front organization to help. They'd probably take a commission from your jobs.