Posted By Gunghoe at

How long it will take for all the kingdoms, duchies, counts, and mayors and their military counterparts to learn that a kingdom isn't one massive guild, or a capital city isn't one big guild.

I think most of the decent sized ones worked it out long ago, TBH. Put another way, you can't not work it out as a group grows in size, due to the way relationships work in CoE.

Around the same point when the leaders start acting like dickheads towards anyone lower than them on the pole.

No doubt little fights will break out all over the kingdoms. Be that with randoms that joined in or people that don't like to be ruled over. But without people in power helping them, a bunch of commoners aren't going to do much damage.

All the joy those in power have to deal with. It would be nice to see who the true leaders are either way.

I expect fear of the other to happen. People will have the backs of the people they know and assume problems of the people they dont.

I wonder why nobody noticed this sooner.....

There is a lot of speculation going on around the effect of guilds, use of exposition points and kingdom takeovers, but people seem to be forgetting a few things:

• The continent will be big - very big. Going to fight Kingdom A while you belong to Kingdom C may require you cross through Kingdom B first. Given it has been stated it will take an average of 20 minutes to cross a County and each Duchy has an average of 12 Counties, and each Kingdom has some 6 Duchies*, that's a pretty big time-frame to be having to mobilise a large group of players, especially if aiming for the capital city. You would want to make sure Kingdom B was not hostile towards you, or allied to Kingdom A. Throw in the survival mechanics and it could become a mammoth task in logistics. It may be a big task for the average player to just go from one County to the next in their own Kingdom;
• It's one thing to combat other Counties, etc. It's another to actually gain control of a noble position. Cassus Belli requires majority support from other Counts, Dukes within that kingdom. Assassinating a King, taking their ring and being able to hold it for 28 days will also be a big undertaking;
• Player skills: it will take time to level them;
• NPC's will play a big part in population density, also in support (or not) of the nobility in their region. If they choose to support their leader it could take some time to fight your way through them.
• A guild could work to disrupt the economy by not paying taxes and so on, but they might find an exodus of the lower classes to another Kingdom if they succeed, which could result in a skills and economic drain. Of course, if the guild is able to show strong leadership they may come back, but how long could that take?

Not saying it won't happen - I'm sure it will - but I don't see it happening within a short time-frame, although there are groups out there planning for this sort of action now. It's certainly likely there will be turmoil between Counties and Duchies within a Kingdom, but will a King tolerate that sort of dissent within their boundaries, especially with the politics going on between Kingdoms and the potential effect it could have on the economy? Guess we will find out after launch.

The Dance continues.

*Not sure if these are correct figures, but I'm sure you get the idea.

People collaborate because working on one's own is not only impractical, it is impossible. There's a reason that humans in real life organise themselves into nations, companies, families, friend groups et cetera. Collaboration is the natural state of being, because humans are pack animals!

Sure, there will probably be coups, civil wars, civil disobedience. But there have been countless examples of all of those in real life, and there are still nations, still political systems, and still hierarchical power structures.

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Posted By Tiberius_Corvus at 8:48 PM - Wed May 17 2017

If it were up to me, I wouldn't allow players to purchase anything above a Count pledge. Dukeship and Kingship should be earn with blood, sweat, and tears. Not bought. By allowing these titles to be bought, you aren't really giving power to the players to shape the world. It's being given to those with money.

You have purchased a governorship while I am but a lowly mayor. You get access to a furnished manor while I have to build my own. You get to run a city with 2-3 times more NPC's and infrastructure than my modest town.

Did you earn all this through blood, sweat & tears? Have you shown good leadership? Or did you buy it? Why draw the line at noble titles?

/takes tongue out of cheek.

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Upheaval of any significance will require numbers and organization.

There will be a few who secretly plot this sort of strategy this early in the game. For the most part, however, it will be random individual criminals or small groups of players who come in at launch testing the waters--not understanding the cohesion that's been building years before they even heard of CoE.

Crafters will have to decide if they prefer intrigue & political violence to crafting. Not many, I think. Guilds can be powerful, but they can also be replaced. Rulers can outlaw a guild and establish new ones. The few players inclined to that sort of conflict are going to be plotting it already. Even then, their patience, years-long deceit may be more valuable to 'the Revolution' as a mole and spy for others rather than trying to lead an uprising from within a guild.

...and most importantly, threats from across the border may put everyone's opinion of their own rulers in perspective very quickly. Could be 'the tyrant' isn't so bad when you compare him/her to the alternative.

Edit: Tips for CoE http://www.theonion.com/article/area-applebees-a-hotbed-of-machiavellian-political-331

@Tiberius You are absolutely correct. Violence upheaval and conflict will most certainly result from players "buying" into nobility and then trying to organize a group rather than the other way around.

Guess what? That's the point!!!

If NPCs hold all the titles players will organize and overthrow them eventually. With players in charge now you have two sides of the same story. The old ruler trying to hold on and new blood trying to take it away.

Generating compelling stories is the point of CoE. It's not collecting stuff it's what happens after you gain something (items, title, or talent) and someone else wants it.

I'm fairly certain no one believed we would all join the game and sit around singing and holding hands. Anyone who purchased a title has been told by SBS we will lose them. Period. The story of our attempt to hold on, what happens after we lose it and whether or not we rally and retake it.

Posted By Morbus at 08:22 AM - Wed May 17 2017

@Malais...you do realise no one in this community takes anything you say seriously and you are only viewed as a self glorified troll right?

And your opinion matters to me why?

Posted By Malais at 1:58 PM - Wed May 17 2017

@Tiberius You are absolutely correct. Violence upheaval and conflict will most certainly result from players "buying" into nobility and then trying to organize a group rather than the other way around.

Guess what? That's the point!!!

If NPCs hold all the titles players will organize and overthrow them eventually. With players in charge now you have two sides of the same story. The old ruler trying to hold on and new blood trying to take it away.

Generating compelling stories is the point of CoE. It's not collecting stuff it's what happens after you gain something (items, title, or talent) and someone else wants it.

I'm fairly certain no one believed we would all join the game and sit around singing and holding hands. Anyone who purchased a title has been told by SBS we will lose them. Period. The story of our attempt to hold on, what happens after we lose it and whether or not we rally and retake it.

Cannot agree more. To be quite honest it's only a matter of time, probably months rather than years, until every original king and their bloodline has been overthrown. A year from now, the character you make as a Ward of the State may be the great grandfather of the current King or Queen of Arkadia. The grand, beautifully designed, expertly built fort you built to defend the largest pass in your Duchy will eventually fall and crumble.

This is all part of the overarching debate raging in the forums right now. All of the pledge packages, EP purchases, alliances being made pre-exposition - none of this is intended to confer any sort of permanent bonus or advantage to anyone. All it will do is set the stage for the opening scenes of Elyria, a prologue which ultimately may become irrelevant in the grand scheme of the Chronicles.

Yes, kingdoms will fall! Yes, you'll lose the things you paid thousands of dollars to have! And isn't it wonderful?!