COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Why I am not worried about mindless PVP in CoE.

I read several topics in this forum about how PvP people will be able to ride over places and group of skilled players will be able to kill out city when most players are offline etc...

I was surprised that I never found answer that from what we already know there are build in systems in game to prevent it. This game is survival game so you can not just run everywhere without worry, you need food place to rest etc...

Maps are supposed to be very big so travel will not be easy and there will not be any fast travel options.

There will not be NPC you can come to after you get your ass handed to you and get new equipment most think will be provided by players so if you dont have any crafting support it will be hard to do anything. All equipment will degrade so you will need new stuff even if you never fall.

There is very limited inventory system making it harder to be able to travel unsupported.

Devs said they planned to make things harder to destroy then build witch is very opposite of what most game are doing. That probably means that you can not destroy stone wall with your sword etc...

Of Course this doesn't mean that people will not be able to destroy cities, but they will not be able to do it unprepared and without support.

I kinda felt that this need this to be said and if you made it here thank you for your reading. See you in Elyria


5/19/2017 1:35:54 PM #1

Thank you for that Lemros! Certainly, people who are unfamiliar with CoE beyond the concepts of permadeath and the open world may be worried about PvP.

But, for all of the reasons you so helpfully pointed out, PvP as a whole will be much more difficult and dangerous than in any other game - but potentially, even more rewarding! A few small things you neglected to mention:

  • Unprovoked PvP is illegal in Elyria, and can result in jail time and loss of game time for the offender

  • Buildings and structures will not be destructible without the construction of expensive and difficult to move siege engines

  • Families boost stats, so anyone near their home will have a natural home-team advantage!


Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.

5/19/2017 1:36:55 PM #2

Actually I'm planning on creating a pvp settlement with a group of people interested in raiding and ransacking towns. The time will show us how far can we go with pvp.


EU - Server >Friend Code: 72983B

5/19/2017 1:48:00 PM #3

Posted By Heartagram at 3:36 PM - Fri May 19 2017

Actually I'm planning on creating a pvp settlement with a group of people interested in raiding and ransacking towns. The time will show us how far can we go with pvp.

As I said I am sure it will be possible but you need support if you provide settlement to support it I bet it will be possible but you need to be prepared to get backlash for it from your neighborhood towns and that will make it harder for you to support them etc... and if you make your close king angry you are in for lot of fun I bet :)


5/19/2017 1:49:33 PM #4

Hi!

Thanks for your post.

I will agree on pretty much all of the points, but I want to expand on them a little.

Posted By Lemros at

I read several topics in this forum about how PvP people will be able to ride over places and group of skilled players will be able to kill out city when most players are offline etc...

I was surprised that I never found answer that from what we already know there are build in systems in game to prevent it. This game is survival game so you can't just run everywhere without worry, you need food place to rest etc...

Like you say, food, shelter, rest, these things will be needed! I would just like to expand and say that you will need to judge where and when you log off, one day in a makeshift shelter is ok, a week is not! The longer you are away from established settlements the harder things become as animals are alerted to your presence, your food stores will run low if they aren't gone, and if you aren't much of an adventurer, you may not be able to source food nearby!

Maps are supposed to be very big so travel will not be easy and there will not be any fast travel options.

No porting type of fast travel. However, that doesn't mean there's not faster ways to get around! For example: a 'common' horse vs a purebred horse. The Purebred is faster and can go for longer than the common horse, so in a sense, that is 'fast travel' but you won't find any floo powder or portals around Elyria!

There will not be NPC you can come to after you get your ass handed to you and get new equipment most think will be provided by players so if you dont have any crafting support it will be hard to do anything. All equipment will degrade so you will need new stuff even if you never fall.

Yep, you are going to need new items, or to refurbish and fix things. My trusty sword will need sharpening, my quiver needs filled, and my pets need food! This isn't an MMORPG on the level of WoW or Eve, this is an immersive game on the level with real life in terms of detail, maybe a little fantastic, but it hearkens back to tabletop D&D and the early MUDs.

If you're lucky though, you may end up in a family that has stuff to spare. If you get robbed, I hope your family is that type and will re-supply you (at least the first time or two, if it becomes a constant thing.... yeah, I'd be cautious of players with that kind of patern).

There is very limited inventory system making it harder to be able to travel unsupported.

You may even have to make a choice between that weapon and that trail mix! Food or protection? It's actually a likely consideration in Elyria, particularly on a long journey.

Devs said they planned to make things harder to destroy then build witch is very opposite of what most game are doing. That probably means that you can not destroy stone wall with your sword etc...

You can try.... but your sword would be worthless after a few hits I think....

The idea Caspian had was to make it as - or more - expensive for people to take a building down as it was to put it up. So that ramshackle little wooden thing you slapped together in a few days might only need a few guys with hammers. That Castle down the way? You need seige machines for that.

Of Course this doesn't mean that people will not be able to destroy cities, but they will not be able to do it unprepared and without support.

What good is 100 Trebuchet, if you don't have enough to pay the soldiers to run them? honestly.....

I kinda felt that this need this to be said and if you made it here thank you for your reading. See you in Elyria

See you around.


~ Goody Odsbodikins, Count of the Highest State. ~
Friend Code: F41EFF

5/19/2017 2:35:37 PM #5

Posted By LorenzW at 3:49 PM - Fri May 19 2017

I'm going to assume that 'can' is a typo,

Yes that was typo thanks. It's fixed now


5/20/2017 12:29:17 PM #6

Posted By Lemros at

OP

Thank you for possibly being the first new face on the forums to look at it this way instead of assuming the worst. It's a refreshing change!

There's a lot of factors that will work together to make zerg rollling cities a lot harder than some people believe. Combined with travel difficulty, reputation, and non-infinite vendors, everyone has to have a base of operations if they want to do anything sustainable. Keeping your family base hidden as a griefer will be quite difficult, especially if the county you're plying your trade in happens to have players dedicated to finding and crushing griefer operations. NPC rumours, non-static guard AI, customisable patrol paths and a whole bunch of other small but useful pieces of the game will make griefing in CoE a unique and likely frustrating challenge.


To touch Divinity, one must be prepared to brave Reality.

5/20/2017 1:13:58 PM #7

Soo many assumptions and way too much theory crafting going on in these forums. Iv always found that when new games are on the horizon the rp'ers and lore lovers come out in droves trying to dictate the law of the land. Soon after, or just before launch the hard realism of their soon to be pvp world hits them like a truck!

While we do have a idea of some of the laws that govern our pvp world, its not written in stone! I swear most of you believe this is gonna be some sort of hobbit world where everyone is blissfully wondering around singing and dancing to the lore of choosing - Mock my words, there will a equal amount of pvp to your pve..

"Unprovoked PvP is illegal in Elyria, and can result in jail time and loss of game time for the offender"

While true, you have to catch us first - Good luck with that. Just as there are skills for catching law breakers, there are skills to avoid capture as well.

I think the example of pvp in this post kind of suggest a group/guilds plans to jump from one location to another. I'd suggest you look at it more in terms of a strategic, slow progression that will spread to a kingdom near you!

As far as fearing kings, pft! Its widely known that kings will be replaced - In fact, very few will hold their position for any measurable time - Some kings will be forced to harbor the more pvp centric guilds for thier own protection, even at the cost of disagreement!

Don't get me wrong, i'm not suggesting CoE will be rampant of raping and pillaging, but the world we live in wasn't made by farmers and happy singing hobbit's alone.


5/20/2017 1:43:36 PM #8

"Mark", rather than mock. I will decline your invitation :P

Nobody's disagreeing that PvP will be a big part of the game. Rather, we're looking at and addressing the fear that zergs will just roll over absolutely everything at launch with minimal resistance by virtue of numbers.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the different elements being rolled together in CoE wind up levelling out. For a long time, roleplay and PvP have seemingly been polarised on the spectrum of MMO play. How they pan out together here is anyone's guess... but I think it's going to pretty well resemble the april fool's day experiment on Reddit this year. How many people are willing to stick it out through the good and ill of that balance being struck is another matter of curiosity...


To touch Divinity, one must be prepared to brave Reality.

5/20/2017 2:03:24 PM #9

The first few month will be filled with random PvP and griefing. Once the first sparks die off I have a feeling a great number of those looking to grief will not buy back in.

That said PvP will not vanish they will just need a reason good enough for them to kill you. If they are hungry and you have a half an apple you may just find yourself on the wrong end of a sword. Just chopped a lot of wood. Well they need a new cabin.

If they deem the punishment worth the risk they will take it.


UDL

5/20/2017 2:28:45 PM #10

Everything QuasiDoc said, with the added addendum that no game has successfully countered zerging, merely increased the amount of steps.


5/20/2017 2:32:00 PM #11

Posted By UDLAlkaline at 07:03 AM - Sat May 20 2017

The first few month will be filled with random PvP and griefing. Once the first sparks die off I have a feeling a great number of those looking to grief will not buy back in.

That said PvP will not vanish they will just need a reason good enough for them to kill you. If they are hungry and you have a half an apple you may just find yourself on the wrong end of a sword. Just chopped a lot of wood. Well they need a new cabin.

If they deem the punishment worth the risk they will take it.

You make the assumption that the first sparks to die are from those that grief. But yeah, i don't think pk'ing will be as popular as games like DF, BDO, or AA, but rather with a purpose and with strategic mindset.


5/20/2017 2:36:41 PM #12

Posted By Degs at 12:28 AM - Sun May 21 2017

Everything QuasiDoc said, with the added addendum that no game has successfully countered zerging, merely increased the amount of steps.

True enough. But add enough conditions for success through preparation and a zerg starts looking more like an army than a disorganised mass of rabble. Zerging in other games is usually spontaneous, quick fun... which, admittedly, it probably would be in CoE, too. With the added caveat that you're probably forfeiting your starting town/county/duchy, your family base if the resident nobility are thorough, and all of your equipment, gold, and other character assets. It would take a fair bit of time to set back up after the initial zerg - which people will realise after the first wave of zergs dies off, and either dig in to prepare or go find an easier game to zerg in. Quasi's right on that point - zerging will require at least some organisation and probably some sort of payoff, particularly after the first few months. At which point the zerg is going to qualify as a military force of some description, rather than a zerg.


To touch Divinity, one must be prepared to brave Reality.

5/20/2017 2:37:06 PM #13

Posted By Wolfguarde at 06:43 AM - Sat May 20 2017

"Mark", rather than mock. I will decline your invitation :P

Nobody's disagreeing that PvP will be a big part of the game. Rather, we're looking at and addressing the fear that zergs will just roll over absolutely everything at launch with minimal resistance by virtue of numbers.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the different elements being rolled together in CoE wind up levelling out. For a long time, roleplay and PvP have seemingly been polarised on the spectrum of MMO play. How they pan out together here is anyone's guess... but I think it's going to pretty well resemble the april fool's day experiment on Reddit this year. How many people are willing to stick it out through the good and ill of that balance being struck is another matter of curiosity...

Mock and mark both work, and given the paragraph, mock was correct.

And i agree - I doubt zerging will be a early game strat. But the argument i see isn't whether or not its possible, but that laws will prevent us from doing so and that is what i dispute.


5/20/2017 2:37:17 PM #14

Posted By Heartagram at 09:36 AM - Fri May 19 2017

Actually I'm planning on creating a pvp settlement with a group of people interested in raiding and ransacking towns. The time will show us how far can we go with pvp.

Interesting idea but as a Count, if your in my settlement, I wonder what you will pay me to not have the Duke come in and wipe you out? :) In other words wherever you set this settlement up you for one had better not be raiding and looting that Counts towns. If you are doing this and raiding another Counts settlements other than the one you live in, then you had better hope that Count looks the other way because he will have pressure on him to find you and tell the Duke where you are.

I see your idea working better as a mobile moving town than a fixed settlement. Or sort of being a "Sea Dog, "Buccaneer, Privateers" type where you have the unofficial sanction to raid the enemies towns.

Count A dosn't like Count B but they are not at war. Maybe Count A lets you stay in his County to harass Count B's towns and travelers. That sort of thing.


5/20/2017 2:46:10 PM #15

Posted By Degs at 3:28 PM - Sat May 20 2017

Everything QuasiDoc said, with the added addendum that no game has successfully countered zerging, merely increased the amount of steps.

Zerging relies on large numbers of players. While I'm sure that occasionally, RDM players will be able to band together enough to cause a bit of havok, those numbers will drop of drastically when the less psychopathic members realise that they're losing real game time and money when they die or are caught.


Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.