A few assumptions made:
All characters will have needs.
All characters will have a different personality.
This means that there will be some population of deviants that loot and hoard.
That population will need a place to hide loot.
It is possible that NPCs will cycle into abandoned caves/dungeons as a natural and free place to hide loot stolen in nearby towns.
This could be done again and again, over time of course.
You assume that one player can kill everyone in the dungeon... I think you underestimate the power of npcs
Harrond, if you so much as see a single Canis Rabbit on your travels you'd best start running or it's gonna mess you up, so you certainly aint gonna be able to take on a dungeon or cave full of NPC's. It's going to be more of a group effort and even then it may prove difficult.
For me, my hope is to be able to use some of my settlement's taxes to help outfit exploring parties. It will provide notoriety if something amazing is done/found and it will build some unity encouraging more cooperation and migration.
Assuming you're able to clear out a dungeon (whether alone or with friends), a few things can happen.
For this scenario, lets say there's a cave system somewhere random in the wilderness. No one really cares, right? But then two cities start getting quite big, and suddenly there's a major trade route running nearby those caves. Smugglers find caves, start using them. Intrepid adventuring party finds caves (and smugglers) and clears out the caves and finds some nice shiny smuggled loot, then merrily skips along to their next adventure. Caves are now once again empty, someone new finds it, figures it's well placed to serve as a base, cycle continues. Enemies don't need to "respawn" for dungeons to repopulate.
Posted By Mythos Cardan at 6:28 PM - Fri May 19 2017
You assume that one player can kill everyone in the dungeon... I think you underestimate the power of npcs
Oh, you've fought NPCs? How were they?
Perhaps not dungeons in the usual sense, but there will be a ton of player structures to explore and loot. ;)
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This is a valid question, and it's one I've worried about, too. However, I'm confident the developers have also thought about this.
They are basically the DM. They have a responsibility to find a solution. They will have a lot of data to help them be efficient in this regard. They can find areas that have not been explored. They can place bread crumbs in the world for people to find. They might even incentivize PCs to make their own dungeons. I picture the benevolent hand of a deity, guiding the fates of the people.
Content creation appears to be slated as an ongoing process for CoE. Instances have been a staple for most MMOs, but CoE is not typical. Non-Instance dungeons have drawbacks of complexity and quantity, but compelling benefits of uniqueness. Solutions are there, but SBS is probably playing the cards close to the vest here. They don't have to have everything done at launch. It can be an ongoing process they adjust as the world changes, just like a DM.
CoE will not be the same experience for everyone, guaranteed. If someone wants to experience the same dungeons as everyone else, and grind them over and over, then CoE is not the right game. If someone wants to sit by the fire and hear stories of some adventurer who found a relic in a dangerous cave, that is what CoE will provide.
And if you were the one to find the relic, your stories might compel others to join you on the next adventure.
Maybe it's just me. But I think people need to stop using the word dungeon. Since it be most likely as Etherion described it. Or like how it is in Skyrim, bandits/animals taking over caves/ruins.
Which either case won't be easy to clear out the cave etc. Then even if you do, someone else will come along and use that spot. People are always looking for a good hiding places.
With how huge the world is, it would take ages to find every single hidden place anyway. Even just finding them all within one county would take ages. So I'm not worried about not being enough of them.
Posted By Degs at 6:15 PM - Fri May 19 2017
Posted By Mythos Cardan at 6:28 PM - Fri May 19 2017
You assume that one player can kill everyone in the dungeon... I think you underestimate the power of npcs
Oh, you've fought NPCs? How were they?
I seen video of developer getting owned by two miners armed with pickaxes while he was in armor . sword and shield, they hit hard, they hit him so hard actually that they logged a pickaxe in his crotch for the rest of the video ;)
Posted By Mythos Cardan at 10:56 PM - Fri May 19 2017
Posted By Degs at 6:15 PM - Fri May 19 2017
Posted By Mythos Cardan at 6:28 PM - Fri May 19 2017
You assume that one player can kill everyone in the dungeon... I think you underestimate the power of npcs
Oh, you've fought NPCs? How were they?
I seen video of developer getting owned by two miners armed with pickaxes while he was in armor . sword and shield, they hit hard, they hit him so hard actually that they logged a pickaxe in his crotch for the rest of the video ;)
Doesnt mean they are difficult. Was the dev using that shield to block their hits and actively dodging (or fat rolling if encumbrance is a thing) to avoid hits? If not then how can you determine the difficulty of an encounter? If so then how good was his timing overall? And how do you know he didnt purposely take those hits to show what its like to take substantial damage?
Also encounter difficulty is relative. SBS said they are gonna have SKILL based combat meaning a high skilled player can easily take on challenges other find difficult or impossible. Naked Fist Only runs of all the souls games comes to mind in this regard. Its difficult but not impossible and people who can do it have a high skill level and typically have an easier time with the game using normal builds.
I would imagine as this game is trying to be realistic it's not likely one person can go about slaying half a dozen other enemies without almost dying or dying in the process. The mine aka prologue will probably make it possible but that's because it's a story they've made to work through, when it comes to final game I doubt we can go into a cave and slay people easily. You might be able to kill 3 enemies but then retire from combat to heal injuries then return later.
Personally I hope combat is really a true test of skill and ability, striking in the right places at the right time with the right kind of weapon and dodging and ducking at the right time. I don't want some hack and slash mechanic where you just swing at them, hit them and the damage you do is based on your supposed skill level vs theirs in some mathematical equation.
Posted By Harrond at
If a player is looking to explore dungeons for relics/loot/etc. how sustainable would this be? Not counting player made 'dungeons', there would be a limited number of caves or mines put into the game by the developers, and since enemies don't respawn automatically I feel like these dungeons will be useful to only 1 player. The first person who gets to the dungeon could kill all the enemies, and take whatever valuables are in there, making the dungeon just an empty cave for the next explorer.
That depends on the devs. I would expect dungeons to be dangerous places. Perhaps dungeon monsters can breed too. If it were me if there were 2 or more monsters in a dungeon and an uninhabited dungeon nearby I'd spawn a baby monstrosity to head to the empty dungeon at nightfall. Pays not to linger lol.
Of course new NPCs could inhabit the cave eventually, but my question is is there going to be enough dungeons to sustain an exploring/adventuring playstyle? Or are a couple of people in each region going to find and clear out most of them in a year or two?
There's every chance you'll discover more. The dangers of inhabiting dungeons will likely discourage most from that choice. Empty dungeons may find dangerous new occupants too. If their victims are left or looted behind you may find wealth builds up over time too.
I don't think relics will be very common at all. If you meet someone with a relic, that will be a memorable experience, finding one for yourself will be even more rare.
As for loot, as others have said there will likely be reasons for deviants to use caves. Caves with very dangerous animals may also have loot from previous adventurers who failed to defeat it.
Another thing adventurers may spend their time looking for is resources. If you learn how to prospect mines for rare minerals, or track rare beasts, or find rare spices or alchemical ingredients you can either gather those yourself, or sell the information to others, by selling them a map or selling your services as a guide to that location.
A lot of my points have already been covered, but basically each dungeon-style structure or land formation is an asset that other players (or NPCs) can then put to use.
Another factor that hasn't been covered is general player perception and thoroughness in exploring/dungeoneering. Just like in your general tabletop RPGs, different players will have different levels of perception - and their characters might as well. One character might have the skills to pick out the mortar of a bricked-off tunnel deep in a cave, and thus access loot that a previous party or occupant could not. So on, so forth.
The biggest factor relevant to the OP, though, is the size of the map and the way the ecosystem works. Human NPCs won't be the only things occupying caves and ruins - on a continent that would take... I can't remember the exact figure, but I think it was over 48 hours of real time to run across on foot, there's going to be a lot of wildlife. The wildlife will breed, hunt, and migrate in accord with its individual and pack needs - shelter being one of those needs, along with warmth. Bandits might be cleared out of a cave, only for it to be occupied by hostile or hungry wildlife.
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