COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
One Kingdom, two tribes

Yes, another topic on kingdom and tribe fears during domain selection.

We all know there are many concearned about being forced to choose between playing a tribe they dislike but stay with the community they like or playing the tribe they like with a community they dislike. There are concerns about bidding wars, etc, etc.

We know there were many discussions about that and many different answers. My proposal is simple, and hope not imposible:

That each kingdom has, at least, two different tribes with a significative population. Which ones?

Well, there are some tribes paired that can remain that way, but the others could be paired "randomly" (but attending to lore logic) with another tribe.

It's not perfect but, at least, that way, everyone will be able to choose between two tribes instead of being forced to a concrete tribe they hate or dislike if they want to remain with their community.

Some can say, "well, now you are forced between two tribes you may dislike" and that's true, but, at least, you have choice now and each kingdom ensures diversity.

I also know that tribes like de Waerd are pretty difficult to pair with someone else and that there are impossible pairings like janoa and Dras, but there's also the Neran wildcard.

And another thing, some (like me) will find interesting if two tribes in the same kingdom have issues between them, it can be very interesting to see how both tribes and their players manage the situation and it will cause a lot of extra roleplay for those interested on that aspect of the game.

PS: Dunno if someone proposed something similar in another post, my apologies if it is the case.

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7/18/2017 8:23:59 PM #1

It is already confirmed you can find populations of tribes outside of their normal kingdom.

In the Neran kingdom for example, you might be able to find Kypiq, Hrothi, and Brudvir due to their positive relationship.

I'm sure that the devs will put in enough enclaves for players who want to be in a kingdom their tribe isn't part of, and will make adjustments during beta/alpha if their are too few.

The devs have explicitly stated they do not want competing/unfriendly tribes to share the same kingdom/monarch. They do not want that level of internal strife at the start of the game, for the sake of the kingdom backers.


Count Einzbern of Aichhalt.

Kingdom of Ashland.

Duchy of Sanctaphandri.

Seated in Darmindatch.

7/18/2017 8:48:46 PM #2

If it's workable game wise why not. I like the idea myself and I am going to give you an up vote just because as of this posting 5 people voted you down with no explanation as to why.


7/18/2017 9:45:16 PM #3

Posted By Corin at 10:23 PM - Tue Jul 18 2017

It is already confirmed you can find populations of tribes outside of their normal kingdom.

In the Neran kingdom for example, you might be able to find Kypiq, Hrothi, and Brudvir due to their positive relationship.

I'm sure that the devs will put in enough enclaves for players who want to be in a kingdom their tribe isn't part of, and will make adjustments during beta/alpha if their are too few.

The devs have explicitly stated they do not want competing/unfriendly tribes to share the same kingdom/monarch. They do not want that level of internal strife at the start of the game, for the sake of the kingdom backers.

What i mean with "significative" I mean more than just one or two duchies. More like almost half-half

And I know they said not competing tribes, but jjust think a moment about this. Is this that bad? Or just another way to promote conflict and change?

7/18/2017 10:38:46 PM #4

As someone within my kingdom said. The Neran should be in all kingdoms. They are the basic tribe that everyone at the start brought into. Either people will leave their groups and go to whatever playable tribe, then it creates some tribes that may have crap all people. Well I can't really think of another option, besides people just sucking it up.

Just thinking about WoW. I could never play a Panda. I'm not sure why, that whole race just annoyed me to some epic level that I never got pass level 5. In a game where it made no difference as well.

I'm sure it be the same here in this game, probably be the same for others as well. So if they are locked with a kingdom and get some unplayable tribe for them. I expect moving. The only real problem is nobles will be picking before hand.


7/18/2017 11:56:34 PM #5

Posted By Daedhel at 2:45 PM - Tue Jul 18 2017

What i mean with "significative" I mean more than just one or two duchies. More like almost half-half

And I know they said not competing tribes, but jjust think a moment about this. Is this that bad? Or just another way to promote conflict and change?

To start, kingdom identity goes down the drain with a population split that high. It brings up too many questions about the situation that brought this about. Lastly, there remains the logistics creating more split kingdoms.

What do I mean by logistics? Let me go through the best combinations without splitting any existing groups.

Scenario 1

The Kypiq and the Neran now share the same kingdom 50/50. We need to make a new combinations to ensure that their are still 6 kingdoms.

Janoa and To'resk are already allied, so we shouldn't pick those two. Same deal with the Brudvir/Hrothi. That leaves two tribes, the Dras, and the Waerd.*

Now, the Waerd could never be split in half, it's completely against everything about their culture and history.

So, it's the Dras that will be split in half, It might totally go against their history, but W/E, we want to make sure that the kingdoms are equal. One half goes to the half goes to the Neran, the other half goes to the Kypiq.

These combos make sense geographically, and there isn't any major conflict. It's the best case scenario, unless we were to break up the other pairs.

So, now the launch kingdoms are:

Brudvir/Hrothi

Janoa/To'resk

Kypiq/Neran

Neran/Dras

Dras/Kypiq

Waerd.

Scenario 2

Let's combine the Dras and the Waerd. The kingdom should be geographical connected, which is a bit of a tall order to put a poisonous swamp next to a semi-arid desert, but it's the only possible combination for the Waerd.

Ignoring the questions about how the Waerd would ever except nobility other than themselves, let's continue.

We now have 5 kingdoms, the only unpaired tribe is the Neran/Kypiq, and pushing them together would create 4 kingdoms. We must combine the Neran/Kypiq, as the Neran is the Kypiq's only ally.

Let's create the other two kingdoms, shall we? The Neran is already friendly withe the Brudvir and the Hrothi, so they are the obvious choices.

Now, the launch tribes are:

Brudvir/Hrothi

Janoa/To'resk

Kypiq/Neran

Brudvir/Neran

Hrothi/Neran

Waerd/Dras.

Scenario multiverse.

I could go on and on about possible tribe combos if I were to split the existing kingdoms, but trust me, you don't want to ask me to do that.


No-matter what we go with, how we split this, and who is allied with who, we face a new problem. 8 tribes to 6 obviously doesn't line up, so two kingdoms need two tribes. If we do anything more than that, it brings up the hard-to-answer questions.

What split the -insert any tribes here-? Does each of these tribes behave the same? If so, why did they split in the first place? If we don't create sub-tribes, these kingdoms start losing their identity, and blend together. Creating sub-tribes is basically asking for new tribes entirely.

It also locks those 3 kingdoms from fighting each other, to an extent.


Now, why don't we consider putting at-odds tribes against each other? No-matter the answer, this writes much of the world's lore for us, and direct conflict in a way that could have been avoided with the current system.

Are they allied against a common enemy kingdom? What kingdom/tribe pissed them off so bad, that they allied with one of their enemies? What happens to this alliance if that's resolved?

This situation forces conflict both between other kingdoms, and within kingdoms. That's assuming the're one of the tribes that isn't split between two kingdoms, if they are, that complicates things further (but this is already long enough).

Perhaps one of the tribes conquered? Who conquered who, to start with, and Is the conquered tribe allowed to be nobility/own a town? Where is the incentive for loyalty towards a leader that does not represent you? Who would voluntarily play as a tribe that is forced into servitude?

Obviously, the conquered tribe would to be split in half, otherwise it would alienate those who wanted to play them as nobility, and locks in the rest to one playstyle.

Because the conquered tribe is split, doesn't that set up for another kingdom to attack them in order to free their fellow tribesmen? Even this situation forces conflict between two kingdoms.

The game is likely going to be conflict riddled as is, the kingdoms need no more incentive to attack each other, nor do the players need more reason to launch a coup. Forcing conflict by putting two aggressive tribes together is to much.

I could go all day about any of this, but this post is already way longer than I originally intended.

Posted By Gunnlang at 3:38 PM - Tue Jul 18 2017

As someone within my kingdom said. The Neran should be in all kingdoms.

They are, just not in huge amounts (and not in the Waerd).


Count Einzbern of Aichhalt.

Kingdom of Ashland.

Duchy of Sanctaphandri.

Seated in Darmindatch.

7/19/2017 12:16:35 AM #6

Of those two scenario's I would much prefer seeing the first one to the second one. The Dras have wet lung and The Waerd have dry lung. How are they supposed to combine well into the same Kingdom? Sure some individuals will learn to travel in both biomes and thus trade can happen but to be combined under one King?

The problem I see with your first scenario though is that you only have one Kingdom with Brudvir in it but you have two Kingdoms with Kypiq in it as a main tribe? You have been paying attention to any of the on going polls? You believe there will be more Kypiq players than Brudvir players?

That Neran/Kypiq Kingdom would probably be better off being a Neran/Brudvir Kingdom. You have that pairing in your second scenario, you should be using it in your first one too. Right now, those two appear to be the two most popular tribes.


7/19/2017 12:55:19 AM #7

Posted By Corin at 09:56 AM - Wed Jul 19 2017

As someone within my kingdom said. The Neran should be in all kingdoms.

They are, just not in huge amounts (and not in the Waerd).

That would be the problem. Well maybe that's my problem. I have never loved this whole tribe thing like everyone else. I just wanted to play some human like race in something close to the medieval ages.

I never remembering SBS saying there won't be any enclaves within the waerd. I can see it making sense, just thought they would still have them. Though I can see the waerd having inner fighting easier as well. Make sense to me if the whole kingdom was split into different groups over being joined together, under one leader.

I know Caspian said they will make the tribes more appealing if the numbers are low. I can't see how they could without making them OP.

But hopefully I'm wrong in all this. Polls on the forums can only tell you so much since I doubt it's being done by more than 500 people, which even now is nothing compared to how many has backed. I suppose we see at domain selection soon enough with the nobles at least.


7/19/2017 2:21:03 AM #8

As I have said in the past and will continue to say until the game is launched, people are putting way too much stock in the tribes. Soulbound has outright stated that you can play any race in any kingdom. The Kingdoms are not monocultural. You will never have to pick a kingdom because of tribes, and you won't have to pick tribes because of kingdoms.

In addition, the devs have also stated that while the races will grant some bonuses to skills, any skill can be picked up by any race. Your race won't affect your gameplay in this aspect.

7/19/2017 5:16:15 AM #9

But will affect a lot on your roleplay experience. I can't remember anythimg about tribes during kickstarter and all the stuff they showed for a long time was middle-aged-like. That fact induced everyone to think and start planning with that in mind.

Tribes will affect a lot your gameplay, and i fo believe it will cause communities to split. Everyone has a preferred tribe and a very hated tribe. Is that hard to understand?

Also om conquered scenario, why do you tbink it would be mandatory for one tribe to look for independence? History is full of multicultural and plurinational kingdoms. Nationalism is a pretty recent thing (historically wise), since XIXth century.

There's also colonization posibilities.

And there's no need that eaxch tribe must think exactly the same way in politics. I mean, all Neran dukes must be in the same kingdom? I agree waerd are an special case, so special it's one of the kingdoms that would have it harder: gosh, they can't even fight in battles to defend themselves due to religion! As they can't fight battles their only option is to flee o be conquered by an army that tries to And of course they cannot conquer, just try to play with other tribes so those will fight each other. You can say they can sabotage and assassinate, but to that scale?

I don't see logic in a waerd kingdom, they seem to me so focused on their own settlements that they shouldn't be a true kingdom with a king, but just a place with lots of similar independent settlements. Just like berbers, one culture with many clans with no political organization.

And add to that fact that they culturally deny individuality, and with that most projects are fucked up. Waerd are a niche tribe in a niche game... And an entire kingdom is forced to that. But, if you place there another tribe with enough population, you allow that kingdom to have another not so niche gameplay while players interested in waerd ways still can play them.

Also racism will be a fact in this game, by npcs at least. You cannot play normally with any tribe in any kingdom.

7/19/2017 8:24:49 AM #10

People keep saying that tribes will impact their gameplay ?????

How the hell will that happen ?

tribes do not prevent you from doing anything, they will only put constraints where they are the dominent population.

The only ones that will be impacted in their gameplay are the nobles as they have to be from the dominent tribe and they can not leave if the limits of the tribe society are too much for them.

But being a Noble is all about either embracing the existing society or changing it, so even for nobles on the long run tribes will not limit their gameplay, they offer two path,

the fast one, embrace the society and play without changing things.

the slow one, reject the society or part of it and work to change it.

For the first time ever in an MMO things are not set in stones, we'll have generations to change the world and ourselfs, stop thinking that what you get at the start is what you'll have for the duration of the whole game.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THAN ANYTHING, your role play is your play, for the first time in MMO history you will not have to design a background and a story for your character, you will just need to play it and write as you do, if the game can not provide you with the background that you want at the start..... Go out and build it for your next generation or the one after that, you do not play A character, you'll play several of them.

easy way you found what you wanted straight out at exposition or even before that, play with your first character as your character and follow the story of his bloodline.

hard way, you have not found what you were looking for yet, then, go out in Elyria and build it, your first character will not be YOUR character, but one of his ancestors and when finally you'll have built THE background you want, you'll be able to step into your character.

But thru all of that, never any gameplay was blocked by tribes only by player choices.


7/19/2017 3:19:23 PM #11

Posted By Daedhel at 01:16 AM - Wed Jul 19 2017

. That fact induced everyone to think and start planning with that in mind.

not everyone...maybe you...and some others who are also very upset, but not everyone.

Posted By markof at 04:24 AM - Wed Jul 19 2017

>never any gameplay was blocked by tribes only by player choices.

I could not agree more.

Again it is about choices...your ideal community vs. hated tribe...you may have to pick one or the other and not get both "perfect" choices...the people who thought they would be Yoru are having the same issues, aren't they?

This IS a game that is different than most...That's kind of one of it's Main Ideas....The journey not the destination, and all that...

You CAN'T always have everything...

Choices ARE hard...

They HAVE consequences...

And there is a lot of PANIC going on at the moment that some folks may not start out in the ABSOLUTE BEST TOTALLY ABSOLUTE MOST WINNING POSITION FROM DAY ONE.

But isn't that what I paid for?...

For ME to WIN.

It is still very early, and the whole story is supposed to take ten years, right?

RELAX (and maybe see what happens first) before we all run screaming to the hills that the system is already broken.

IT isn't even ALPHA yet.


We Are The Many... We Are The One... We Are THE WAERD !!!

7/19/2017 4:53:19 PM #12

For all those jumping on the "stop complaining" band-wagon bare in mind that SBS have already changed the tribes off the back of a similar thread that had a huge number of responses from the community so yes complaining can bring about changes!

However before that change was made the tribal pairings was released on discord by SBS that showed what a large number of the community and the OP are now asking for which begs the question was the change a good one?

Each of the Kingdoms had two associated tribes most will know the pairings but as the OP suggested it gave a stronger element of choice within picking tribes as part of a Kingdom or community

The recent change to tribes brought about most of the Kingdoms being split into single Kingdoms whilst others stayed paired (I still dont understand the decision behind the remaining paired tribes) something I look forward to being answered in the next Q&A

Lastly I've seen a lot of posts that suggest tribes dont matter and tribes will be widespread and so wont affect your choice but and I hope I'm wrong here....I've been told that nobles of each Kingdom will be locked into selecting their tribes from the dominant tribe of their Kingdom choice i.e. the Kypiq Kingdom will have Kypiq Nobles?

Another way I've also heard it is that Nobles are locked into the dominant tribe of the "biome" that their land falls within so again a Kypiq Kingdom with a grasslands biome will have only Neran Nobles within that biome?

I think that was another question being asked on the new Q&A thread however if either case is true then Nobles do not have the freedom that many believe and so Kingdoms/Tribes/Communities remain three very real concerns for a large number of people the frequent threads just like this is evidence of that!


7/19/2017 5:37:32 PM #13

As a relatively new member of the community, I can only try to empathize with those who feel there may be a conflict of personal interests versus the associations that have been built up over the previous couple years.
Try not to think of this as having to choose tribes over your kingdom or vice versa. You are choosing a play-style. If you want to be the best blacksmith, as an example, you may want to play a Hrothi regardless of kingdom you settle in... keeping in mind you may be at a disadvantage not having easy access to your homeland mountains.
This reinforces the importance of finding a community at domain selection that fits your play-style while maintaining contact with your friends. I trust SBS' vision and believe this will create good story opportunities having "mixed race" groups working together in much the same way as we've had in MMORPGs in the past with each coming from their own unique backgrounds and legacies.


7/19/2017 6:13:20 PM #14

ok just a few things.

the current status of tribes is that each kingdom will have a random spattering of other tribes in it.

this resolves the issue for the common player...

Now the issue is not the common player but the tittle pledged players. those who have invested a large amount of money into this game. now why they are a minority and most will think ha ur getting a county or a duchy you should be happy with what ur given i personaly dont find that sort of thing fair.

so for me this is no logner so much a debate about the common player but a higher level debate on the title holders.

now a common player may make plans to be a blacksmith or a taylor and even look towards maybe founding his own town or baronry or even getting a county. these plans are in essence small and adaptable to the tribe they get.

Tittle holders plans on the other hand will be much more indepth. what will my town focus on? what will my county produce? what sort of miltary structure should my duchy have? what sort of goverment my kingship should take?

now alot of these plans have been going for years... myself only since jan and as some know i plan to be a major food producer.

now like the OP has stated we all went on with these plans with the base human race in mind not knowing the complexities that the diffrent tribes would bring. it was not till casp actualy brought the subject up in the alpha experiences Q&A that any of us even stoped to think that tribes would effect any of our game play let along our plans.

this all being said i absolutely love the diversity of the different tribes, but there are some that just wont work for me on a title holder level... personaly for a chr level i ant so worried realy but a title level i am petrofide...

personaly one of the things i feel they should look at is making naren a part of most the non coupled kingdoms.

it is the only logical solution based of the info we have curently.

the grasslands must connect to a number of different biomes and naren are the most numerous tribe in the game so it only stands to reason they would have a reasonable presence in every kingdom.

they are also the one tribe with the most friendly connections in the game so that should make them ideal for the early scenarios posted above.

they by no means should be half of a kingdom for each the other tribes but a 3rd or 4th would not be strange. it would also explain how all the races have learned naren and have close trade ties.

i think this will keep the apeal for some kingdoms why still having the option for those who had major plans that relied on a Naren sort tribe to do.


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7/19/2017 6:34:20 PM #15

Posted By mandrake1980 at 11:13 AM - Wed Jul 19 2017

ok just a few things.

the current status of tribes is that each kingdom will have a random spattering of other tribes in it.

this resolves the issue for the common player...

Now the issue is not the common player but the tittle pledged players. those who have invested a large amount of money into this game. now why they are a minority and most will think ha ur getting a county or a duchy you should be happy with what ur given i personaly dont find that sort of thing fair.

so for me this is no logner so much a debate about the common player but a higher level debate on the title holders.

now a common player may make plans to be a blacksmith or a taylor and even look towards maybe founding his own town or baronry or even getting a county. these plans are in essence small and adaptable to the tribe they get.

Tittle holders plans on the other hand will be much more indepth. what will my town focus on? what will my county produce? what sort of miltary structure should my duchy have? what sort of goverment my kingship should take?

now alot of these plans have been going for years... myself only since jan and as some know i plan to be a major food producer.

now like the OP has stated we all went on with these plans with the base human race in mind not knowing the complexities that the diffrent tribes would bring. it was not till casp actualy brought the subject up in the alpha experiences Q&A that any of us even stoped to think that tribes would effect any of our game play let along our plans.

this all being said i absolutely love the diversity of the different tribes, but there are some that just wont work for me on a title holder level... personaly for a chr level i ant so worried realy but a title level i am petrofide...

personaly one of the things i feel they should look at is making naren a part of most the non coupled kingdoms.

it is the only logical solution based of the info we have curently.

the grasslands must connect to a number of different biomes and naren are the most numerous tribe in the game so it only stands to reason they would have a reasonable presence in every kingdom.

they are also the one tribe with the most friendly connections in the game so that should make them ideal for the early scenarios posted above.

they by no means should be half of a kingdom for each the other tribes but a 3rd or 4th would not be strange. it would also explain how all the races have learned naren and have close trade ties.

i think this will keep the apeal for some kingdoms why still having the option for those who had major plans that relied on a Naren sort tribe to do.

Yes, the Neran are part of most non-tropical kingdoms.

The kings are the only ones being forced into into an unfortunate situation, everyone is doing so willingly.

Nothing is stopping you from pledging yourself to the Neran tribe directly.


Count Einzbern of Aichhalt.

Kingdom of Ashland.

Duchy of Sanctaphandri.

Seated in Darmindatch.

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