I'm curious about this as well. As well as if the top down will be available during battles too which can possibly provide an advantage due to possibly seeing much more of the battlefield than your physical person could see.

From what I understand, KoE will function the same way as command would in CoE. NPCs have their own will and their own goals. So command over them would be no different than commanding a group of real life people. There will be delays in response times, and some may even flat out refuse the order on rare occasions.

The idea of the NPC in CoE is to make them as indistinguishable from PCs as is technologically possible. So you kind of have to get away from thinking about this as a traditional RTS where you have absolute control over your units.

The command system will be done differently from a normal RTS as well, it won't be instantaneous, what you will do, is essentially give orders through letters. You want to move troops, you write a letter telling the troops where to go and what to do once they get there. The letter is sent, and upon arrival (which takes time, and can also be intercepted) the officer in charge decides from there what to do. So your orders are basically suggestions with heavy consequences for refusal.

As for how far you can see, I imagine the devs will view the player in KoE as looking at a giant map on a table, a map that gets updated whenever you receive a report from soldiers or citizens. So maintaining lines of communication will be crucial, because if you can't get frequent reports, you could end up looking at a map that has incorrect information.

Being in command is going to be far more complex and time consuming in CoE and KoE than it will in any other RTS. The differences I listed off here are just the tip of the iceberg. You also have to worry about miss-information, and you have to think about all aspects of leading troops and ruling a kingdom, as far as I know, there won't be any hand holding. You will take part in managing everything that normal RTS games do for you.

Thanks for the response

I am aware of most of this. I mentioned how KoE is going to work mainly because most of us are well aware of what the devs have released on it so far. However, the info is focused entirely on PCs, and doesn't mention the NPCs much.

Yes, most of us are aware of how communication in CoE works, but that does not answer the question of how military NPCs will interact with their player officers (or whether or not it is possible to delegate authority to anyone below the mayor tier), or whether or not NPCs will even join town guards and militaries.

It also does not tell us the mechanism by which nobility or their officers give these orders to their NPCs. I can give a complex order to a player, and he/she will likely understand exactly what I am saying. They might even decide to follow the order. An NPC is a program. Not a Cortana-style (ASI) AI. We aren't going to be able to talk to them exactly like a player. There will have to be some interface or mehanism by which we give them their orders as well as the specific information they need to follow their orders.

Even basic stuff will be difficult otherwise. How do I get my NPCs to properly change the guard? I do this as a reenactor, and even with real people we can have difficulties doing it correctly. And I'm not talking about performances like the Beefeaters at Buckingham Palace, more so something functional, like a picket line, or guard posts along a castle wall. You have one platoon, for example, already at their posts, and another platoon coming to relieve them. The relief platoon marches around the perimeter and swaps out the relief for the guys coming off watch, post by post. They march in formation the entire time.

Tell me, how do I get a bunch of NPCs to do that, while making sure no post is left unattended for even an instant?

I want to know how NPCs are going to work, specifically, not extrapolations based on what we know of PC interactions. The devs haven't talked about this yet, so I wouldn't expect another community member to have the answer.

You have an alarm like a bell, and they will all either hide in their houses or come running for you to fight whatever is there.

That is true for NPCs in general, however, not necessarily guards or military NPCs.

Posted By Ranulf at 08:26 AM - Wed Oct 18 2017

Thanks for the response

I am aware of most of this. I mentioned how KoE is going to work mainly because most of us are well aware of what the devs have released on it so far. However, the info is focused entirely on PCs, and doesn't mention the NPCs much.

Yes, most of us are aware of how communication in CoE works, but that does not answer the question of how military NPCs will interact with their player officers (or whether or not it is possible to delegate authority to anyone below the mayor tier), or whether or not NPCs will even join town guards and militaries.

It also does not tell us the mechanism by which nobility or their officers give these orders to their NPCs. I can give a complex order to a player, and he/she will likely understand exactly what I am saying. They might even decide to follow the order. An NPC is a program. Not a Cortana-style AI. We aren't going to be able to talk to them exactly like a player. There will have to be some interface or mehanism by which we give them their orders as well as the specific information they need to follow their orders.

Even basic stuff will be difficult otherwise. How do I get my NPCs to properly change the guard? I do this as a reenactor, and even with real people we can have difficulties doing it correctly. And I'm not talking about performances like the Beefeaters at Buckingham Palace, more so something functional, like a picket line, or guard posts along a castle wall. You have one platoon, for example, already at their posts, and another platoon coming to relieve them. The relief platoon marches around the perimeter and swaps out the relief for the guys coming off watch, post by post. They march in formation the entire time.

Tell me, how do I get a bunch of NPCs to do that, while making sure no post is left unattended for even an instant?

I want to know how NPCs are going to work, specifically, not extrapolations based on what we know of PC interactions. The devs haven't talked about this yet, so I wouldn't expect another community member to have the answer.

My apologies I misunderstood. As you said, the devs have yet to really elaborate on the exact method of communication with NPCs. As such the only thing we can do is hypothesize based on information we already have.

You may already know this, but I'll say it anyway for the benefit of anyone who reads this thread. Caspian mentioned (way back before kickstarter) that he wanted NPCs and PCs to interact in the same manner as a PC talking to another PC through the game. With the end goal being that unless you do extensive investigation (probably just asking what city IRL they live in) you wouldn't be able to tell if you were talking to an NPC or a PC. So I would assume that would mean that you would give orders to an NPC in the exact same way. Which would require it to be similar to a cortana-AI if not more sophisticated.

For instance, your officer receives your orders, and walks up to an NPC and tells them what to do, as if the NPC were a player. The NPC then goes off to do it, or refuses. The accuracy with which they perform a task will be based upon their understanding of not only the orders, but of the task itself.

I highly doubt there will be command windows specific to NPCs as that would put up an immediate red flag to the player telling them that they are talking to an NPC.

Now, this is all for CoE, which means there are no guarantees that this level of AI will be implemented by time KoE comes out. But I would say it is very likely.

Actually what Ilyria is saying is true, I recall this because I asked a similar question way back (but this one is a newer one from 2017):

QnA:

"What sort of controls are there to drive the behavior of a settlement NPCs as a whole? For example, will it be possible to sound an alert to send all NPCs to their battle stations, flag them to set up for the frivolity of a local festival, or gather to observe a formal occasion..."

Answer: "Different signals can be used such as the beacons of Gondor, trumpets, city bells, that can all difference per region to alert NPCs and players alive for an event or a call to arms. NPCs will work on a flag system where depending on the alert type some will go to their guard posts while others will go (to their homes to) coware in fear."

From DJ #19:

"When a Duke issues commands in KoE to a mobilize a military unit on their map, it's a request to the members of their duchy to mobilize at that location - in ElyriaMUD! And when a Duke sends a courier to a staged army on a nearby border telling them to cross over and attack the neighboring duchy - it's a request to those people stationed at that encampment to engage. A King, Duke, Count, or Aristocrat's success in Kingdoms of Elyria is based largely on the support of their followers in ElyriaMUD."

Of course it's highly hinted that you motivate your followers, followers in this being both npcs and pcs who need to do as you suggest in ElyriaMud. Though mind you, most of what nobility and aristocracy will be doing aren't war at all, but a lot more administration and such. :>

Also as Orikoren mentioned, you interact with pcs the same way you do with npcs, think something like oblivion where you open up a menu or something, where you can then introduce yourself (as a disguise or your real name or some of it etc.) share gossip etc. It won't be the normal /say and just expect npcs to reacts, you'll have to interact with players too this way, though they're still figuring out the system as I imagine it'll be quite something new :) So they're putting thought into a combat system, crafting, trading (contracts) and social system :9 so there's a good focus on every big group of gamer.

But I would guess if the npc have all their criteria fulfilled they'll most likely respond to your orders (placing flags down for them to gather here etc.) but I also expect if the nobility aren't taking good care of them (high taxes or just neglect) then they won't respond when you finally give them orders to move here etc.

A quick response to the Q&A answer, I reviewed that before my original post. I'm 90% sure they said to "a" guard post, not to "their" guard post, and in either case, it doesnt explain how you tell an NPC that is their guard post, or how you get another NPC to relieve him (or her).

Its one thing to mark the posts on a map for players, explain the significance of the mark, and trust that the player can figure it out. Its quite another thing for an NPC to take that map, understand the significance of the labels, know which post they are assigned to, and properly relieve the guard or run there when the alarm is sounded.

In other games, thats all scripted NPC behavior. Everything the NPC does is scripted. They have a subset of scripted responses to player action they can use for certain situations, but generally, the player reacts to the NPC, not the other way around.

CoE promises to be entirely differenct, but they have not explained how they will accomplish this.

In order for an NPC to be indestinguishable from a human, theyd need to be at least anArtificial Normal Intelligence, if not Artificial Super Intelligence, neither of which are even close to existing yet.

Perhaps gentry and below would interact without a special interfacez but I just can't see the more complex NPC interactions happening without some sort of interface, perhaps similar to OPC scripting.

Also, if an NPC joined the Guard/military are you supposed to go up to each of them and ask pretty please to do their job? If I order my troops to assemble and one says no becasue its lunch time excuse me but hes being crucified in front of the troops! lol I cant think of a way to in first/third person lead multiple units of soldiers without an interface. Yes i understand that they need to be taken care of as if they were an actual person. And if they are happy with their lives blah blah blah how am i going to fight with my NPC soldiers? Can I attach myself to a Unit of soldiers and move around with them as one? While opening a mini map and controlling the movements of two other units? In the above format I can see how battles will work becasue many if not most Units of NPCs will have a player leading them, then through flags/horns/hands signals battle will commence. An area that needs to be cleared up for sure.