In the new post called "A Year of Foundation" under "Upcoming Community Events" is a section called "Map Selection". Here is the post: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/23401/A-Year-of-Foundation
There is a sample starting continent(image 9) far above the "Map Selection" paragraph. Here it is:
Inside that paragraph is the sentence and I quote, "Early in 2018, players with packages will be given the opportunity to vote on the starting continents for the different servers." This is all based on the assumption that we are voting on maps that are as detailed as image 9. If we are voting on starting continents that are as detailed as image 9 then I have a small problem. Explorers, Adventurers, and Cartographers wont have anything big to uncover, explore, or map(except the extra 60% of the world that isnt known). If they start in the Mixed Deciduous Forest region up north they know there's no reason to explore north because there is just water. So, go south. There's no "Aha! I found it!" moment when you find the first desert, huge mountain, or ocean you come across because you already knew when you voted for the map on your server.
It's a tough fix when trying to balance what players do and dont know because if we knew everything it would be more boring than if we knew less. Problems that come up trying to fix this would be that, for instance, kings should know their land. You cant have them blindly picking continents and kingdoms after they paid as much as they did. Lore-wise, the world has been around with people on it. So, why shouldnt we have already explored, mapped, and uncovered the whole continent already to the degree of image 9? Since we already know that certain races like certain biomes and that there is a "proposed kingdom-tribe distribution" it's tough not to know what and who is where.
Maybe I am over thinking this, what do you think? (I probably missed something)
A valid concern for sure, and I think the key is that the continent picture model is at such a high level
For instance, yea, you know that the ocean is to your South. But where are the hills, the valleys, ruins, caves, dungeons, other settlements, etc between here and there?
That's where the cartographers and explorers will find their niche
Posted By Orashna at 3:17 PM - Sat Jan 13 2018
A valid concern for sure, and I think the key is that the continent picture model is at such a high level
For instance, yea, you know that the ocean is to your South. But where are the hills, the valleys, ruins, caves, dungeons, other settlements, etc between here and there?
That's where the cartographers and explorers will find their niche
True, but they could have more. If the maps weren't known I could see the problem that early game explorers, cartographers, and adventurers would be needed. They would also be needed mid-late game for the extra 60%. Maybe they'll just be less needed early game.
Maybe knowing the continent makes the world feel smaller as large as it already is at 96 km x 192 km. That might add a lot of fun.
I think you are underestimating the size of the continent when you say that is you are in the swamp then you know where you are. Yes you might know your general location but that is a very large area for you to simply walk around blindly.
Not only that but you don't know the magnetic poles orientation compared to the continent so by simply spinning the continent (or the magnetic field) when they upload Elyria to the servers you can't just say I'm going to walk south to the ocean somewhere, you would have to explore it. (Even so you can expect the exposition to be filled with map makers as the kings, dukes, and counts are going to want to know their land.
But that is just my two cents.
I think you're over thinking it a bit, and sort of selling yourself a problem.
Unlike most games with a "fog of war", where the assumption is your character either has never traveled outside of their village in their lives, or has never had enough contact with the outside world to know what their surroundings look like, CoE assumes that your character is learned.
While they may not know every detail of the continent, it's understood that your characters are smart enough to know there's an ocean or lake a couple hours north of where they are. Just as I know if I go west of Seattle I'll hit water.
The benefit of being an explorer comes not from the high-level understanding of what the continent looks like, or even where the biome boundaries are, but in the low-level details.
Where do animals gather & breed, where are the natural resources located? Where are good places to gather minerals? Where are there ancient ruins, graveyards, catacombs, etc.
It's also important to note that Elyria is not static like other games. Elyrians relocate, abandoning old settlements and creating new ones. Animals migrate in order to find greener pastures or to escape harsh winters. Resources deplete and new ones need to be discovered. Even forests recede from deforestation.
The point I'm making is that even if we were to provide a fully defined map for you, with every single domain, lair, catacomb, dungeons, river, forest, hill, etc. mapped out based on the world as it exists "today." Tomorrow it would be different and require re-exploration.
As a simple comparison, look at this map of North America, and compare it with what you may already know about the countries located here. Clearly there's a ton you'd learn by exploring vs. just looking at this continent map.
Good point, Poisonated.
I do love the information Caspian shares with us and appreciate the map of the continent as a beautiful and well thought-out example to have good starting places for all kingdoms and tribes. This map of a continent looks really great and shows that all areas are playable and no kingdom needs to worry about being disadvantaged.
BUT I would prefere it to be the only one this detailed we get to see outside the game. In my opinion it just leeks to much information. Knowing less is better than knowing more. Keep exploring and cartographing a true challenge also on the starting continent, please!
The 25 maps for voting could be much less detailed, reduced to a rough outline without showing the exact shore line, rivers, lakes, mountains etc. Maybe only write the kingdoms and biomes on the map and leave a bit to discover and surprise for the first settlers and travellers. Those maps for voting for the starting continents could look like simple hand drawn medieval maps in contrast to the kind of modern "satelite supported" 3D map we see in image 9.
Knowledge is power, if everyone had that knowledge from the beginning then what is the point right? Those that go out and gain that knowledge about their lands will then have that knowledge and thus that power.
I think we know enough about the biomes already to make relatively educated decisions on where we place ourselves but that doesn't mean we will know everything or that we should. These maps really don't get down to the localized details.
Posted By Fredbob99705 at 3:49 PM - Sat Jan 13 2018
I think you are underestimating the size of the continent when you say that is you are in the swamp then you know where you are. Yes you might know your general location but that is a very large area for you to simply walk around blindly.
Not only that but you don't know the magnetic poles orientation compared to the continent so by simply spinning the continent (or the magnetic field) when they upload Elyria to the servers you can't just say I'm going to walk south to the ocean somewhere, you would have to explore it. (Even so you can expect the exposition to be filled with map makers as the kings, dukes, and counts are going to want to know their land.
But that is just my two cents.
So, are you saying that the world will be so big that we dont know directions because directions are basically man-made? For instance, the sun rises in the east on Earth. So, if I assume that Elyria is like Earth in that sence that I will go South if I am in a snowy area because I am assuming that the sun rises in the east? Will players have to determine which direction is which?
Hm, then better don't walk to far off on a cloudy day without remembering your landmarks. Could be a challenge not to lose the way in the forests, even when the sun is shining.
Well, considering the Brudvir have a unique ability of Sensing Direction...
New job opportunity for Brudvir: Take-you-home-service for those who lost their way in the caves.
Posted By Caspian at 3:55 PM - Sat Jan 13 2018
I think you're over thinking it a bit, and sort of selling yourself a problem.
Unlike most games with a "fog of war", where the assumption is your character either has never traveled outside of their village in their lives, or has never had enough contact with the outside world to know what their surroundings look like, CoE assumes that your character is learned.
While they may not know every detail of the continent, it's understood that your characters are smart enough to know there's an ocean or lake a couple hours north of where they are. Just as I know if I go west of Seattle I'll hit water.
The benefit of being an explorer comes not from the high-level understanding of what the continent looks like, or even where the biome boundaries are, but in the low-level details.
Where do animals gather & breed, where are the natural resources located? Where are good places to gather minerals? Where are there ancient ruins, graveyards, catacombs, etc.
It's also important to note that Elyria is not static like other games. Elyrians relocate, abandoning old settlements and creating new ones. Animals migrate in order to find greener pastures or to escape harsh winters. Resources deplete and new ones need to be discovered. Even forests recede from deforestation.
The point I'm making is that even if we were to provide a fully defined map for you, with every single domain, lair, catacomb, dungeons, river, forest, hill, etc. mapped out based on the world as it exists "today." Tomorrow it would be different and require re-exploration.
As a simple comparison, look at this map of North America, and compare it with what you may already know about the countries located here. Clearly there's a ton you'd learn by exploring vs. just looking at this continent map.
Caspian stated, "The point I'm making is that even if we were to provide a fully defined map for you...."
I think the OP meant to say that maybe we should know LESS and not even have the map as shown above, or have it in a different form.
My thought is that maybe the map should only show boundaries and biomes and tribes for kingdom selection and not colors, mountains, lakes, etc. That way the kings still have good information to choose and the explorers and cartographers will be able to eventually make a continent map. In history, usually only the nobility had the money and resources to send people to map the world, here the map is given to even the most common man.
Posted By Noryn at 4:01 PM - Sat Jan 13 2018
Good point, Poisonated.
I do love the information Caspian shares with us and appreciate the map of the continent as a beautiful and well thought-out example to have good starting places for all kingdoms and tribes. This map of a continent looks really great and shows that all areas are playable and no kingdom needs to worry about being disadvantaged.
BUT I would prefere it to be the only one this detailed we get to see outside the game. In my opinion it just leeks to much information. Knowing less is better than knowing more. Keep exploring and cartographing a true challenge also on the starting continent, please!
The 25 maps for voting could be much less detailed, reduced to a rough outline without showing the exact shore line, rivers, lakes, mountains etc. Maybe only write the kingdoms and biomes on the map and leave a bit to discover and surprise for the first settlers and travellers. Those maps for voting for the starting continents could look like simple hand drawn medieval maps in contrast to the kind of modern "satelite supported" 3D map we see in image 9.
"The 25 maps for voting could be much less detailed, reduced to a rough outline without showing the exact shore line, rivers, lakes, mountains etc."
WHOLE HEARTEDLY AGREE !!!!
The continent has to be known to a certain extent because the land has been claimed. These claimants are those we refer to as the nobility and they exist at the start of the game.
What you're really after is a new frontier where nothing at all is known about the land. To borrow from fictional works, in a Game of Thrones, the land beyond the Wall was like that, an area shrouded in mystery and unkown dangers, where the land was mostly wild and uncharted because people stayed away. Maybe Elyria needs a wall too.
Another equally interesting possibility would be discovering new continents like historical explorers of the past had to do. Like Christopher Columbus, explorers would seek sponsorship from monarchs to fund their expeditions out in the open seas. And in return, the monarch would lay claim to any new lands discovered. There's a pretty cool dimension here in terms of gameplay and conquest/expansion, but if this isn't possible now, maybe it can be a year 2+ expansion feature.
Posted By Noryn at 1:01 PM - Sat Jan 13 2018
The 25 maps for voting could be much less detailed, reduced to a rough outline without showing the exact shore line, rivers, lakes, mountains etc. Maybe only write the kingdoms and biomes on the map and leave a bit to discover and surprise for the first settlers and travellers. Those maps for voting for the starting continents could look like simple hand drawn medieval maps in contrast to the kind of modern "satelite supported" 3D map we see in image 9.
Not only could they turn the continents in any direction before applying them to a server, they could also only announce which continents had the most votes not which server they would be applied to. With the exception of the APAC archipelagos.
Doing these two things would give meaning for the early explorers.
As always,
Jojo
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As per statement by Caspian previously in the Discord...that land only represents like 26% of the entire world landmass. That isnt an exact quote but that is right about what he stated the percentage to be.
That means lots of world landmass to still be explored and mapped out entirely by players.