COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
What would be acceptable for a Kypiq farmer?

June store event brought us a few farmer kit, the question is in regard to those kit, what would be acceptable for a Kypiq, following his tribe's culture to farm and to what end ?

"... the Kypiq have become the protectors of the wild and have, as part of their religion, vowed to kill no living thing if it can be helped. As such, while the Kypiq will gather nuts, berries, and other seeds from plants, they're unlikely to eat roots or other floral components which would kill the plant. Similarly, while a Kypiq can eat meat from a fallen animal, they do not hunt. Their unwillingness to kill has allowed them to gain the trust and faith of many a forest creature, leading them to be skilled animal tamers. Legends even tell of some Kypiq who were able to talk to animals. But their diet is not all beneficial to them. After generation upon generation of not eating meat, most Kypiq lack the enzymes necessary to break down animal meat effectively. This results in them gaining no protein from the animal, it doesn't satiate them as effectively, and they tend to get lethargic after consuming animal proteins."

Livestock starter & Prize livestock

Pig

That one seems to be the most out of cultural acceptance, unless a very specific type of pig able tu track and forage mushrooms, pigs seems doomed to be butchered.

Obviously the Kypiq farmer should neither do the butchering nor eat the meat, but can it raise the pigs and sell them to someone who's going to butcher them ?

Chickens

For the most part same question as for the pig, but chicken also lay eggs, even if the Kypiq do not eat them non fertilized eggs are not really animals and might not trigger cultural limitations as to their trade ? A side trade could also be to pluck feathers, as they regrow, it might be acceptable as long as it is done "in accordance" with the chicken ?

Sheep

that one seems to be ok to me if the Kypiq farmer is raising sheep for the wool ? The farming of milk maybe ok too as was the eggs for the chicken ? then again the question of the beast for slaughter arise at the end, can a Kypiq farmer sell a beast knowing that the fate of that beast is slaughter ?

Seed stacks & Textile farm kit

Maize

If Kypiq were to farm maize they'd have to harvest it without cutting the stalk, later mulching the field with the stover. That will help soil management but will prevent the farmer to use the stover for other use.

Potato

That one seems off limit for a Kypiq farmer. Kypiq can eat potatoes but as farming them imply killing the plant it does not seems to be culturally acceptable?

Carrot

Sounds same as the potato to me.

Green Bean

Seems just fine, as long as done like what's been talked about ont he maize. In fact Native Americans customarily grew them along with corn and squash, with the tall cornstalks acting as support for the beans bean wikipedia page. Will we be able to do such a thing in CoE ?

Cotton

Cotton is a perennial plant and as such should be ok to farm for Kypiq, harvesting by hand can be done without harming the plant. Cultivation of cotton as an annul plant is done for better and easier pest and weeds control, so a Kypiq cotton farmer will have more work to keep its field clean and secure than one that does not farm it perennially.

Flax

Flax fiber are taken from the flax stem, so that should be off limit to a Kypiq farmer, but flax can also produce flax seeds and those are edible by both mann and animals, can be used to make oil Linseed oil. Not sure flax can be used like that in CoE but if it can, so a Kypiq farmer should be culturally able to farm flax for that purpose. Again, not using the full scope of the plant put the Kypiq farmer at a disadvantage but just as with corn and beans what the Kypiq farmer lose in alpha revenue it might earn it back in soil management.

I'm eager and happy to hear what Kypiq fans think and if someone in SBS wants to come by and drop us a few infos and knowledge that would be awesome.


6/15/2018 11:06:49 PM #16

Kypiq get more interesting with each bit of Intel we find on them


When I am lost, I know I have traveled the farthest. Sayeth the guy jeff. 49F48A =FC

6/16/2018 4:50:05 AM #17

I think if you are going to farm Kypiq, they should be free range, making sure there is a nice shady spot, plenty of water and food and avoid added hormones and antibiotics because that just going to cause health problems in the general public and breed superbugs resistant to antibiotics!!


6/16/2018 10:26:58 AM #18

Milk and eggs contain animal proteins, the same as animals do. If Kypiq are physically intolerant of animal protein, they probably would have a hard time with milk and eggs as well, and consequently would be unlikely to keep animals for the purposes of producing milk or eggs.

Most grains are annual plants, although some are perennial. I believe maize is an annual. What would be the policy of Kypiqs to plants that will die but are not yet dead? Fully mature maize is the sort that is dry and hard, and it is used to make masa, hominy, and corn meal. Maize seeds that are not fully matured can be eaten as soft vegetables (e.g., sweet corn, if bred for that). Hand-harvesting seed heads (cobs) before full maturity does not automatically kill the plant, in my experience.

The greater Kypiq issue with cultivated plants may be the disruption to the existing life that intentional cultivation requires. Simply digging into the soil might be considered taboo, because it invariably kills some of the life that might exist in the disturbed earth, and the Kypiqs might be aware of that. Perhaps this issue leads to a variation of belief and practice among Kypiqs.


6/16/2018 6:54:49 PM #19

If I was a Kypiq I'd farm silk. But that's not a plant, you'd need the insects that make the silk.

Although... those insects have to eat. So then the question becomes which is the best crop to feed said silk making insects.

6/17/2018 5:01:35 AM #20

Posted By Tiffany at 11:54 AM - Sat Jun 16 2018

If I was a Kypiq I'd farm silk. But that's not a plant, you'd need the insects that make the silk.

Although... those insects have to eat. So then the question becomes which is the best crop to feed said silk making insects.

My own speculation was that the Kypiq use spider silk. As I recall, Vye liked that, but I'm not sure if it was either confirmed or denied. Spiders in RL are carnivorous, so if the source is spider silk, then I think Kypiq would be religiously incapable of bringing the spiders their food. Encouraging the food to go to the spiders, however, would be an entirely different thing.

If the silk source is similar to RL silkworms, i.e. caterpillars, then the Kypiq could simply rely on the silkworm mothers to lay their eggs where the best silkworm food is. That is the best way of keeping with a non-interventionist philosophy, which Kypiq-style Faedin seems to possess. Whether and to what extent Kypiqs encourage the growth of silkworm food depends on their attitude toward disrupting the natural order to engage in cultivation, which I brought up as a possible concern previously in this thread.


6/17/2018 7:07:57 AM #21

Posted By HajimeSaito at 01:50 AM - Sat Jun 16 2018

I think if you are going to farm Kypiq, they should be free range, making sure there is a nice shady spot, plenty of water and food and avoid added hormones and antibiotics because that just going to cause health problems in the general public and breed superbugs resistant to antibiotics!!

While I applaud your appreciation of organics, you need to remember the technology level of Elyria is not modern day Earth. There are no GMO's or growth hormone livestock. Basically everything is going to be organic... (dubious research pending of course)


6/17/2018 7:21:42 AM #22

Posted By Poldano at 02:01 AM - Sun Jun 17 2018

My own speculation was that the Kypiq use spider silk. As I recall, Vye liked that, but I'm not sure if it was either confirmed or denied. Spiders in RL are carnivorous, so if the source is spider silk, then I think Kypiq would be religiously incapable of bringing the spiders their food. Encouraging the food to go to the spiders, however, would be an entirely different thing.

You have made an interesting point in both your posts Poldano. While the Kypiq themselves may have "vowed to kill no living thing if it can be helped." does this mean that they will not respect the natural circle of life?.

If they are going to keep carnivorous spiders in captivity to produce silk, would it not be their responsibility to provide them live food since they can no longer freely hunt for themselves?

If the eggs are unfertilized and thus not a chick, are they breaking breaking the Faedin by selling them to persons who do eat animal protein (since the Kypiqs likely don't eat the animal protein themselves)? Technically there was no chick so the egg wasn't a life interrupted....

Does harvesting the produce from a plant kill the plant (ie picking the cobs off the stalk) and if the plant was about to die anyway is it still murder?

Food for thought (pun intended Snipehunter...)


6/18/2018 6:40:18 PM #23

Posted By Lady ShyHeart at 12:10 AM - Sat Jun 16 2018

What about farming people?

Every culture has its merchants, thieves, and bandits :P


To touch Divinity, one must be prepared to brave Reality.

6/20/2018 7:26:52 AM #24

Then a fair assumption would be to say Kypiq are not opposed to utilizing animal byproduct. I would think so long as it doesn't bring harm to the animal and in some cases perhaps could help the animal. Hmmmm, interesting. :O


The Akashic Records

6/20/2018 4:00:22 PM #25

Remember the pigs can be used to find truffles for the Kypiq. The wool from the sheep could be used and of course the chickens could be used for their feathers and quills. Just some thoughts on how the Kypiqs can use the livestock.


6/20/2018 4:14:05 PM #26

So, here are a few things I'll throw out there:

The core beliefs of the Kypiq flavor of Faedinism are as stated, but they can be practiced to greater or lesser extent.

For example, some Kypiq eat cheese, some don't.

Many Kypiq simply can't eat it after childhood at all, but a surprising number can, and some do. They don't see it as a violation of their faith at all, but more conservative Kypiq would disagree, arguing that the milk of an animal is meant for the next generation of that animal, and that using it is akin to stealing it, which could be seen as harming that next generation. Less conservative Kypiq could care less.

This filters into agriculture as well: If taking an ear of corn won't hurt the stalk and it will grow enough to ensure the corn's "lineage" can continue, most Kypiq feel they're still doing their duty as their faith demands. On the other hand, some ultraconservative Kypiq see any cultivation as moving away from the role of guardian into the role of steward, which they think of as presumptuous. These hardcores mostly believe the Kypiq should remain foragers, cultivating nothing, and interfering only as required to ensure the forest's continuity.

This has social implications as well. Even in the homelands of the Kypiq, some Kypiq live on the ground. Some even live in large built structures made from collected wood and stone. There are differences of opinion about this, with some feeling like these Kypiq are turning their backs on the Kypiq lifeways, some not caring at all, and some embracing the new trend and supporting it and all the shiny new technology that comes with it.

Anyway, I realize it probably doesn't answer your questions, but I hope it helps! :)


  • Snipehunter
6/20/2018 4:14:07 PM #27

Kypiq are going to be a interesting race wait and see what people do with the race and their land and it may change their habits greatly. Time will tell

6/20/2018 5:36:57 PM #28

Your interventions are always welcomed and informative Snipehunter.

I also thanks all those that shared insight and took part in the thread, most of the posts are interesting and insightful.

I realized that the whole time i had in mind a Kypiq farmer away from the Kypiq home forest, probably because i wont play Kypiq but i envision Kypiq helping in the agriculture through out my domain. Maybe also because the forest does not sound like the best place to farm, apart from clearings, there is no space for fields and not that much light for plants to grow.

Then i remembered that Kypiq is an ingenious lot, and apart from the zealots traditionalist that Snipehunter just described, some must have searched for ways to develop some farming up in the trees. That's when i started searching hanging flower pots.

Kypiq are masters of zip lines, pulley, ropes, pots can be made of cords, barks, calabash, stone, bags of silk or forged ...... I had the image of hanging fields made up of hundreds of hanging pots in a complex wire network close to a spider web, to let the Kypiq farmer go from one pot to the other, raise and lower them or even move them horizontally to maximise the clearings....


6/21/2018 6:26:54 AM #29

Silk worm may be a problem because to get the worm out of the silk they boil them alive. Kypiq value life but if they sold an animal to someone who then sold it to a butcher would that count? Or if a beast broke its leg would they let it suffer and die or would they euthanase it, out of kindness?


6/23/2018 4:46:58 AM #30

Posted By Snipehunter at 09:14 AM - Wed Jun 20 2018

So, here are a few things I'll throw out there:

The core beliefs of the Kypiq flavor of Faedinism are as stated, but they can be practiced to greater or lesser extent.

For example, some Kypiq eat cheese, some don't.

Many Kypiq simply can't eat it after childhood at all, but a surprising number can, and some do. They don't see it as a violation of their faith at all, but more conservative Kypiq would disagree, arguing that the milk of an animal is meant for the next generation of that animal, and that using it is akin to stealing it, which could be seen as harming that next generation. Less conservative Kypiq could care less.

This filters into agriculture as well: If taking an ear of corn won't hurt the stalk and it will grow enough to ensure the corn's "lineage" can continue, most Kypiq feel they're still doing their duty as their faith demands. On the other hand, some ultraconservative Kypiq see any cultivation as moving away from the role of guardian into the role of steward, which they think of as presumptuous. These hardcores mostly believe the Kypiq should remain foragers, cultivating nothing, and interfering only as required to ensure the forest's continuity.

This has social implications as well. Even in the homelands of the Kypiq, some Kypiq live on the ground. Some even live in large built structures made from collected wood and stone. There are differences of opinion about this, with some feeling like these Kypiq are turning their backs on the Kypiq lifeways, some not caring at all, and some embracing the new trend and supporting it and all the shiny new technology that comes with it.

Anyway, I realize it probably doesn't answer your questions, but I hope it helps! :)

you just opened a whole new can of possibilities. I knew kypiqs would be awesome. Reminds me of a old favorite movie of mine.


When I am lost, I know I have traveled the farthest. Sayeth the guy jeff. 49F48A =FC