What about houses, land, fence, ECT. Bought with ep. Will it spawn or do y'all have a builder Npc that comes an does this.

I am not sure I really like this system and really hope that anyone who bought a package can just be given the last week of exp to put all this stuff down and get it over with.

What is the exchange rate for npcs that recieve tokens? How much of a token is converted to currency?

Thousands of these tokens could exist in a city, county, duchy, or kingdom. And if they just give away their items for tokens or I have to accept these tokens as a PC player I would like to make sure that I or my NPC are being properly compensated and not just giving away thousands of items for free.

The need to exchange and transport the items or goods is setting up people for instantly lost money at launch and beyond as you exchange the item and it can instantly be stolen as you try to bring it back to your property.

Do the tokens dissapear from the game upon use or do npcs then use these to exchange or trade with each other or OPCs?

What if you are never able to exchange them what then? Like the items are just never in stock and you just cant use them?

What is stopping someone from just not using their hoarded tokens and just using them all after the dust of launch settles while most other people are forced to put their money on the line before then?

Posted By WarlanderLichbane at 01:45 AM - Fri Jun 22 2018

What is stopping someone from just not using their hoarded tokens and just using them all after the dust of launch settles while most other people are forced to put their money on the line before then?

That is really my biggest concern and really something I would use cause why not?

If there really isn't a time limit or one that lasts around a month. That's a month pass launch time that for some items, I can have zero risk. So my plan for awhile now is to setup a pig farm, which I wasn't sure if pigs would be even in the game before this promotion.

So while I have not brought anything from the promotion yet, for reasons, I could just basically stockpile up on the basic animals and be honestly laughing. Saving them all until a raining day.

Which then on the other side, if some new player comes along and steals my pigs/kills them etc. But then sees I'm just getting more and even asks me. How would he take it, when I tell him I have these tokens, that he can't buy. That I brought ages back and will keep me going for so long.

Over any other farmer that has to buy pigs from someone else. While sure the NPC may only have so many in stock, but I'm sure that would still come across as an unfair advantage to him. More so since this is after full launch, way pass the world building that is expo.

To me, this just seems like a very slippery slope for SBS to go down. Why I thought at max people had a week. I don't want people to get rip off since they did buy them and possibly miss out to claim them. But keeping the tokens around for too long and it just create a shitstorm imo, while leaving it open for people to stockpile them.

I think the worry about "stockpiling" may be exaggerated.

Sure, they may avoid some potential loss by waiting until later to claim those resources, but on the flip side, they may have also missed out on the opportunity to use those resources productively, and expand them.

For example, if someone uses their livestock tokens right out of the gate, they could potentially breed them and end up with 5 times as many in a month or two.

The person who waited still has just those 2 from the package. Same with seeds.

In regards to the "gear" or vehicles, who's to say that they won't be outdated and inferior if they wait too long.

I think the decision to allow people to wait to claim them if they want is a good one. It allows the person to make the decision between security and production, it allows those without a guaranteed settlement, or "safe" area, at the start of Expo to get settled before they claim them, and it serves a similar purpose to EP for those that aren't starting at a Mayor+ level pledge.

EP is specifically for those people who have settlements/counties/duchies/kingdoms and are able to start building right away to establish their area of control.

As Snipe said, two different forms of "currency" for the same thing, just allowing different paths to get there.

Posted By Snipehunter at 02:28 AM - Fri Jun 22 2018

I don't actually know how that's any different from having the coinage to just purchase them then and there - it's not like your tokens just let you poof a thing into existence. You still have to go to a merchant and wait in like everyone else to purchase them, first come first served. You're just paying with your token instead of coin.

Well we have really no idea how easy coin will be to come by, that would be one concern. As an animal breeder, if someone were to slaughter all my animals. I could be light on coin, more so enough to cover the cost of them all. But if I had tokens, well that takes away from any worry if that was to happen. Even if I still have to wait for stock to come in, it's still money I wouldn't need to worry about getting some together.

I honestly have no idea how coinage will even work early game. If people all will have enough, if they be worrying about paying tax, feeding themselves plus any other upkeep. While hoping no one does steal from them, making matters worse. But that is mostly another topic all together. The point, I can't see having to re-buy new animals being just no problem and having the coinage just laying around. At least early game when things could be still getting setup.

I can see I won't get an answer to my original comment of how long tokens will last, which is fine. I can wait until more details come out later on, while just trying to plan as best as I can. Appreciate the replies to my worries all the same Snipehunter. Which sure maybe I am overthinking it, but I seem to do that to just about everything else.

The only issue I have with this is the apparent cash shop creep.

Exposition points are purchased using real word money. These points are in turn used to purchase items intended to build out the world during exposition. Once exposition is over EP are converted to story points and a substantially discounted rate. (Unless this has changed)

Since EP in essence expire there is little reason to hold onto them or of them being used after the actual launch of the game. This defends the pay to play model of the game rather than the pay to win situation that has driven people from other games and inspired such hate in the past.

Now the issue of stockpiling tokens flies in the face of the pay to play model. Even if I have to wait until the vender has more of the items in stock if I want to run a farm, I can use 1k in cash to ensure I have enough tokens to forever keep my farm stocked. As these are purchased with real world money if they don’t expire and can be kept forever the arguement can be made for pay to win.

Example I have 100 tokens for the seeds and such. The engine kicks out a drought that kills the farmland of me and my neighbors. We live on our stockpiled coinage buying food and such to survive. After the land becomes usable again we are all out of coinage. But because I spent 1k in real world money I travel around and find a vendor to redeem my tokens. Sure I have to transport them back but my farm is restocked and ready while my neighbors struggle to find coinage to restock.

At the same time since the region has been devastated there is a premium for any and all food that is produced in the region. Since I am ready before the commotion I gain an advantage in that I can get to market while the deman is still high before supply catches up.

To me that is pay to win.

Malais im not sure how you define that as pay to win. In your scenario you have a bunch of hungry neighbors who see you growing a nice and healthy new batch of crops while they starve and then see you selling them at increased profits because your the only one around who has a stock... In what world do you think you wouldn't become the 'content' for those poor disconsolate souls? So I suppose you could gleefully pat yourself on the back until the peasants used the last of their energy to assemble whatever siege equipment was needed to lay waste to your bountiful villa and fields.

Of course you could use the seed you had reserved and trade it to them for some kind of sharecropping type contract depending on exactly how detailed the contracts can get, this could get you anything from similar treatment above, to slight discontent, to raising you high in the esteem of your fellows for bringing life back to your locale.

Finally I suppose you could be the generous and concerned steward of your fellows and give your fellows enough to at least start to recover and greatly increase your odds of getting a cordial reception when your fields are all brimming with crops waiting harvest.

I suspect you don't really understand how these types of survival games work? Paying to win might be the case if you can also purchase something that allows you to bubble up in your parcel impervious to the neighbors which I rather doubt will be the case. You will have choices, they will have choices, and I suspect your advantage over them would end up being to your detriment if you proceeded in the fashion you lay out.

@Dalvin117

I use my real world money to stockpile items to use when the rest of the game world or at least my area doesn’t have any. - pay to win. I paid for access to something others may not have at least access to it the moment others don’t.

Using that access I sell to anyone with coin. My neighbors are using their coin to try to rebuild while I use my coin to expand in terms of guards or more land. Those without tokens have to spend time in game recovering from a disaster that I simply travel to a vendor to overcome.

While they can try to take my stock I have customers who need my food such as the local baron/mayor who will use their militia to ensure I am protected.

In short pay to win means I can use my money for an in game boost where others cannot. Once the tokens are no longer sold anyone who can hold on to them until a dire need has spent money to mitigate an in game challenge. Thus paying to beat it or paying to win.

Stockpiling tokens for use post launch (if possible) isn’t the same as spending money on EP since EP had a set expiration and apparently tokens do not.

I will point this out again. It's different because tokens don't give anything to the accepting vendor except a token for x, y, or z. These tokens can't be used for that vendor to purchase anything else. In your example Snipehunter the person in front of you has spent an equivalent money value, that in this day and age allows that vendor to then spend a version of that money further down the line. This again creates a null income scenario for the vendor who accepts the token. The cascade from that could be fundamentally huge depending on who or what impact this has. If someone overstocks on a type and depletes a local vendor this could also be an issue. I understand the need for tokens to allow people outside of exposition to use them, and for an equitable process to be in place but to deny a NPC vendor and thus the community it's part of income could have a negative impact. A large city might not care, but a hamlet, village, or small town might be hit hard depending on what it is that suddenly had a null income scenario, and the amount of them.

Thank you for the clarification. I know that normally it appears that you all have the angles covered but I just wanted to be sure. I just hadn't seen the conversion from the token to the currency in the example. I am glad you have it covered. Thanks again for the attention. May you have a blessed day!

@Malais. The long and short of it is that pay to win is pay to WIN, not pay to get a possible short term fix it. In the model you pointed out, the tokens, if they were pay to win, would give you a WIN. What is a win? If your definition of a win in this scenario is having more pigs for the short time before they are stolen, killed off for meat by raiders/bandits/hungry neighbors, which imo is the likeliest scenario, then sure, you had a win. IMO, that is not a win. For me, a win would be if you could keep those animals, not have any disasters happen to wipe them out for the next two or three years....but that is my version of it being a win. Someone else it might be totally different.

@Dariusacmar

Edit: Ok you got me I’m an idiot and misread your name.

So apologies.

However the overarching point was based on snipe’s post I see a couple of possible exploits using tokens and creating coins, and 2 screwing others over using real word money. Perhaps SBS has foils in place but given how this is a relatively new announcement to how tokens will work I have to wonder.

@Malais. How interesting that you say I keep missing your point...yet this is the first time I have read or responded to your point.

As far as Snipes' post, it's interesting how he points out that he was responding to Tadakatsu's concern about the possible Null value and overall negative market impact that might have. Snipe specifically pointed out they had that in mind and that it wouldn't...where as your posts have almost nothing to do with that...but rather a repeated focus on a pay to win or perceived pay to win aspect which Snipe also pointed out is not valid as the Tokens are still based on a market availability for use. This making it no different than if someone that was personally wealthy or a teenager with a large amount of free time, capitalizing on their parents money, chose to spend a large amount of their time and make more in game money, therefor using their real life money/situation to gain more play time and affect the market that way.

As it stands, the Tokens will have a small impact on the game...but imo, no more than if that same person instead spent 3 hours extra for one week playing/working on that part of the game the tokens would have affected.