0.4.0 Skill Flower: Thoughts & Reactions

CoE skills, as of 0.4.0

With the release of the new and re-imagined skills/knowledge system, I'm sure we all have thoughts to share. I'll put a few of mine below, and please share things that you notice as well!

Some of my thoughts:



Interesting to see papermaking under woodworking. Should we expect that Elyrian paper is primarily easily-destroyed pulpwood, rather than the more resilient linen/cotton blends or papyrus that have been invented in Terran history?


I love seeing Brewing/Distilling, Cooking, and Alchemy all together, as indeed they are in the life that we know. The fundamentals of cooking are in chemistry, and lessons learned in one use the same principals as in the other.



Interesting to see Pharmacology split into a completely different tree from Alchemy. Many people (myself included) assumed that these would be more closely related.


Having Architecture and Cartography under the same general skillset might make military engineers happy. Understanding a map is key to properly siting fortifications, and it's cool to see that concept here.

What are you curious about, excited by, or leery of, in the skills system as it stands today?

7/18/2018 2:30:13 AM #1

First, just want to point out, stay focused on the right side of that picture as that side is the more relevant one to current discussion on the skill system. And I like how there's no specific stealth skill, indicating it'll likely all be based on player skill, and what you're character looks like. Colors, camouflage, size, etc.

7/18/2018 2:30:55 AM #2

I think their intention with pharmacology, being in the lore tree and paired next to surgery under Medicine, is more about the application of such things. What does what, who to use them on and when. While medical specialists would likely rely on chemists to create the products they use in treatment.

7/18/2018 2:35:17 AM #3

I find it a little odd that while axes and long-blades branch into one-handed and two-handed, both maces and hammers are the opposite and subdivided by the one-handed and two-handed branches above them.

7/18/2018 2:36:01 AM #4

Posted By Dazzerix at 7:30 PM - Tue Jul 17 2018

First, just want to point out, stay focused on the right side of that picture as that side is the more relevant one to current discussion on the skill system. And I like how there's no specific stealth skill, indicating it'll likely all be based on player skill, and what you're character looks like. Colors, camouflage, size, etc.

Yes, good point. I didn't want to alter the image, but we're definitely talking only about the right side. How about that list of "knowledges", though?

7/18/2018 2:37:40 AM #5


  • Archaeology
  • Linguistics
  • Cryptography
  • Law
  • Architecture *Aquatic Trapping
  • River Fishing
  • Lake Fishing
  • Surf Fishing
  • Folk Remedies
  • Animal Care
  • Veterinary Medicine
  • Astronomy
  • Astrology
  • Medicine



Ranged Combat:

Triggered Weapons:

  • Crossbows

Drawn Weapons:

  • Archery
  • Slingshots

Thrown Weapons:

  • Sling
  • Javelins
  • Thrown Blades
  • Tossed Items

Melee Combat:


  • Grappling
  • Striking


  • Guisarme
  • Spears
  • Staves


  • Axes
    • One Hand
    • Two Hand
  • Short Blades
    • Daggers
    • Short swords
  • Long Blades
    • One Hand
    • Two Hand

Dual Wielding

Blunt Weapons:

  • One Handed
    • Maces
    • Hammers
    • Flails
  • Two Handed
    • Maces
    • Hammers


  • Deflection
  • Blocking
  • Shields



  • Surgery
  • Pharmacology


  • Cartography
  • Musical Composition
  • Architecture
  • Calligraphy


  • Interrogation
  • Forensics


Performing Arts:

  • Dance
  • Acrobatics
  • Song

Musical Arts:

  • Percussion
  • Stringed Instruments
  • Wind Instruments
  • Horns



  • Water finding
  • Surveying


  • Snare Making
  • Tracking


  • Lure Making

First Aid:

  • Wound Binding
  • Bone Setting


  • Firemaking
  • Bedding
  • Shelter

Animal Care:

  • Animal Husbandry
  • Animal Taming/Training




  • Cooking
  • Brewing and Distilling
  • Alchemy

Glass, Bone and Stone Working:

  • Glass Blowing
  • Mineral Cutting
  • Stone working
    • Masonry
    • Sculpting
    • Pottery


Cloth and Leather

  • Weaving
  • Tanning
  • Leather Working
  • Tailoring

Metal Working:

  • Smithing
  • Tinkering

Wood Working:

  • Paper Making
  • Carpentry
  • Carving


Slight of Hand

  • Purse Cutting
  • Light Fingers


  • Goods Replication
  • Document Replication


  • Camouflage
  • Makeup
  • Mimicry


  • Lock Bypassing
  • Trap Disarming


((BIG Thank you to Polite And Duffy and others for helping fill in the blanks when we didnt have a higher res photo ♥))

Here I'll post this here too to help you distinguish which side and stuff for the skills

7/18/2018 2:39:11 AM #6

I'm actually really interested in seeing how the surgery and pharmaceutical relate to lore on that side of the skills compared to how chemistry relates to medicine from the non-lore aspect side of things

7/18/2018 2:55:08 AM #7

The Survival skill tree is so robust. You can look it over and get a good feel for the experience one will have when spending a lot of time in the wilderness.

I see some aspects of the Guile tree that seem well suited for bardic life. Bards are going to be going heavily into the Guile skill tree. I see you misinformation...

I like that there are two areas of "medicine" both with Lore Medicine and Survival First-Aid.

The one questionable bubble I see is the "Bone" section of Glass, Bone and Stone working. I dont see any further bubbles for Bone working where as stoneworking and glass work both do. I would imagine there would be multiple uses for bone. Just off the top of my head, there would be Jewelry making, Trophy making and weapon making.

7/18/2018 2:58:57 AM #8

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 7:39 PM - Tue Jul 17 2018

I'm actually really interested in seeing how the surgery and pharmaceutical relate to lore on that side of the skills compared to how chemistry relates to medicine from the non-lore aspect side of things

Yes, I am as well. I think that there will be a lot of opportunity for interplay between the knowledge of what to do and the knowledge of how to do it. Sometimes those will be combined in the same person, and sometimes you'll have to work together with someone else to achieve your goal.

7/18/2018 3:01:46 AM #9

This is great! It lets me plan my build now that I know which areas I should focus on.

Though, for obvious reasons, I doubt pharmacology would be popular amongst the Dras unless it somehow also tied into alchemy, which, by the looks of it, it isn't.

I can also see why they renamed the last area to guile. I can see many legitimate uses for document replication (copying skillbooks or novels for wider distribution) for one example.

I also wonder which category the Dras sword they showed in a previous post would fall under. Short sword?

Expecting to set up as a mayor in one of the three "two town" counties in Bridgespider (Angelica server, Kingdom of Tyria). I'm hoping to end up with a city by the end of exposition for lawmaking ability, assuming I can keep the city sustainable. You will know it's me by the city name Raven's Roost

Friend code: 23F484.

7/18/2018 3:30:00 AM #10

I hope the Art branch gets filled in a bit more. We have Music and Dance... what about Visual? Will we be able to paint and filigree? Should engraving be moved from Crafting to this, if it becomes a thing? How about embroidering (flags, fancy clothes, etc.). I could see it being in Tailoring (though it wasn't mentioned), but it could also be a Visual thing, too. Thoughts?

7/18/2018 4:54:02 AM #11

I like the new version, it’s definitely a step up. I would like a bit more info on Engineering. They kind of threw it in crafting but did not expand much on it. Outside of Combat, Siege Engineering is my sole focus.

7/18/2018 6:01:19 AM #12

From what I've seen, it seems like mechanical engineering/inventing will be a cross-disciplinary profession, with its primary skills being tinkering, smithing, and woodworking. However, it's worth noting that:

  1. It's likely that some skills and knowledges are missing from the flower.
  2. As science and technology progresses, SBS will add new skills or modify existing skills.
7/18/2018 7:26:02 AM #13

There are clearly cross-relations among some leaves (er, petals?) from distant branches. Pharmacology, for instance, is a branch of knowledge, but must have some relationship to the crafting skills within Chemistry; perhaps the former is theory that some of the latter applies.

I think tanning is more related to chemistry than to weaving, leatherworking, and tailoring. Also, I did not see dyeing, which has historically been a distinct profession using a different skill set from weaving.

Perhaps it would be useful to look at every skill as a combination of theoretical knowledge, expertise of various processes using theoretical knowledge (applied knowledge?), and physical abilities to carry out processes. A character could specialize in just one aspect, but would be less self-sufficient and in some cases less able to progress.

For example, a miner might have the strength and agility to use picks and shovels, but without practical knowledge of the ore he is mining he will be nothing but a grunt laborer. His ability to perform physical tasks may progress, but unless he learns to pick out the ore from other rocks and dirt he will not progress in mining skill. Using the same example, a mine operator might have practical knowledge of the ores that his own mine produces, who can direct grunt laborers where to dig, but without theoretical knowledge of different kinds of ores (geology?) he might be missing opportunities for producing a wider range of products.

This risks breaking down knowledges and skills into micro-branches, but there is a precedent for it in the combat branches: combat styles.

Another way of looking at it is that the major leaves correspond to encyclopedia categories, of which no one ever has complete knowledge. Part of the explanation for this is that the encyclopedia is never complete: there is always the possibility that more will be discovered or invented. Another part of the explanation is that it is very difficult for any individual to completely master all that is currently known about even a very circumscribed category.

7/18/2018 9:19:57 AM #14

There are definitely many invisible links that are not made apparent in the diagram and there would be links between Chemistry and Medicine for sure, but I don't see Pharmacology really being linked to Chemistry or crafting.

My reasoning for this is, in simple terms, Chemistry is mixing Substance A + Substance B = Substance C and Substance D in a chemical reaction to produce new substances, while Pharmacology is more Drug/Substance A activates/inhibits (interacts with) Receptor/Target B to produce a physical response in the body, but even though this physical response is sometimes mediated by a chemical reaction in the body it's not really about the reaction so much as the macro-effect as a whole through this "interaction/equilibrium relationship",

That's how I view it anyway

There is a branch of Pharmacy though, called Pharmaceutics, which is the science of preparing and manufacturing pharmaceutical/medicinal products, but then this is very much like cooking by adding ingredients that become more than the sum of their individual components.

Ironically this not far from the historical truth as Apothecarists, the precursor to modern Pharmacists were originally grouped with the green grocers as part of their guild and had to fight very hard to be seen as different. The reason they succeeded was because everyone knew what I green grocer did, but no one really had any idea what the hell Apothecary was or entailed being perceived (incorrectly) as almost some mystic art!

And while Medical Specialists/Physicians have always been perceived as different from Pharmacists/Apothecarists, there is actually a common ancestry between General Medical Practitioners and Pharmacists way back when, but they splintered off to focus on the diagnostic side of medicine while Apothecarists focused on the treatment/therapeutic side of it. From there they diverged significantly but still share many similarities.

I am actually working on the Pharmaceutics and Pharmaceutical Manufacturing section for my The Simplified Elyria Medica at the moment, but am a little time poor so am having trouble finishing it.

If it were me, I'd revise the Medicine branch to be more of an interlinked triad between Medicine, Surgery and Pharmacy with a lot of weighted overlap (unequal distribution of shared knowledge and skills) between Medicine and Pharmacy, Medicine and Surgery and Surgery and the local butcher :P hehe

7/18/2018 1:14:48 PM #15

I am honestly hyped big time by this.

Log in to post