Griefers - will jail time really rein them in?

So I replied to the Dark Side thread and then went to the FAQ's to see if there was any new info posted and I reread the info about griefers:

  • Q. Griefers. Tell me you've at least eliminated the griefers!
  • Actually, more or less. In Chronicles of Elyria, crimes such as attacking other characters is punishable by time in prison. The more time someone spends in prison, the shorter their playable lifespan, the more their skills atrophy, and the less powerful they will ultimately become. So, we've kind of removed most the incentive around griefing.

TBH I don't understand how the jail time is going to actually stop griefers.  Especially since the last dev update which says that jail time is not actually served - rather it's just time taken from your lifespan. Maybe I've just been playing games that have a high percentage of idjuts but I don't see how griefers are going to be dissuaded by this.

Someone clue me in to what I'm missing here.


8/25/2015 3:59:44 AM #1

Easy. Lives cost money. If you just go through the game committing crimes and losing time off your life and you permadie after a month, you have to pay to spawn a new character. So, this technically wont stop all griefers, but it will mean those griefers are paying $$ to do so.

8/25/2015 4:00:47 AM #2

Well the more jail time someone serves the quicker they die and have to pay for a new life, I guess that's the incentive not to PK.

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8/25/2015 7:46:40 AM #3

What I want to know is how easily and how often criminals are arrested. It doesn't help much if the punishment is severe if they are never brought to justice.


8/25/2015 8:41:57 AM #4

I think a system like this will encourage group play even more as it will spur adventurers to travel in parties to aid in safe travel from not only other players (griefers) but also all the big bad nasties that will be lurking in the shadows.  To be honest, unless you’re a very capable warrior (or a really brave/stupid one) I can’t see many people adventuring alone given the info we’ve been provided on what awaits us in Elyria.

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8/25/2015 9:43:12 AM #5

What Caspian wrote in another thread :

'....If they manage to live long enough to be an effective swordsman, etc.. (you know, because they probably spent a lot of their life in jail) and manages to catch a few people out and forces them to Spirit Walk, then yeah, a few people have to take a walk, which may shorten their overall life some, but you can bet the nearest town will form a militia or something and track them down. Get a little evidence off of them for the crimes they've committed and they'll have shaved off another couple decades from their life.'

2 important things :

-they won't go to jail unless someone catches them, something that an experienced griefer will easily avoid... outrunning, disguise, logging off, bribing NPCs, even fighting the pursuers. So it won't be easy to bring them to justice. But... if there's a very high reward on their head, bounty hunting might prove to be a very profitable business.

-they won't go to jail unless there's real evidence against them... again, something they might exploit... or not, depending on the evidence system. In any case, some witnesses won't submit the evidence each time they see a crime. Or... it might be a crime in a remote location, or without any evidence...

8/25/2015 9:56:07 AM #6

It’s difficult to make arguments for and against a system we know very little about at this stage.

For all we know it could be an automated system such as it detects when Player A was in the vicinity of a murder and the system then automatically flags the attacker, Player B, as being “wanted” and so town guards (NPCs) will pursue to capture if Player B ventures near towns/cities.  Or it could be a completely run PC/OPC system.

Perhaps even a combination of the two, where Player A has to report Player B to the authorities before any actions towards Player B is implemented.

And even then, this doesn’t account for bounty hunters, hired hits and the likes.

@ Ender Even if a player logs off, they remain ingame as an OPC (Offline Player Character) so they could still be arrested or whatever.

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8/25/2015 10:12:53 AM #7

I think the main thing I am getting confused about is what do people actually consider a griefer in this context?

It seems a lot of it is anyone who commits murder and I will be honest I do not agree with that definition. I think, while it does impact other players, it is a valid play style. A risky play style certainly, but a choice players should be allowed to make. If that player then make use of the in game systems such as being careful about the evidence they leave behind, the items they loot, using disguises and the terrain to hide, that sounds great! They are really playing the game and contributing to interesting player driven content with people trying to discover who the murder is and tracking them down.

So what exactly is the behaviour we want to stop? If it is corpse camping then I think this system works. It will be easy to get a band of people together to arrest them if they are staying at the same spot. The consequences really will be large if there have been multiple offenses, it is just not worth it for them.

So over use of the murder system will be controlled but well planned crimes may not be punished. Personally I think that is a brilliant balance.

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8/25/2015 10:28:23 AM #8

Ender mentioned something that can give us a clue. You as a player log off but your character doesn't. So a griefer leaves his character vulnerable when he is offline, so that is a good time to go and catch him ;)

8/25/2015 10:52:57 AM #9

@VictoriaRachel Yes, griefing should be considered a perfectly acceptable niche gameplay, same as roleplaying. Up to a point. Don't give them too much rope, they'll ruin the game just for the heck of it. The game is about having fun, if they have fun by ruining my fun, escuse me for having a problem with it. That's why we need balance, basic rules, boundaries, or we'll end up ruining eachother's fun.

8/25/2015 11:08:40 AM #10

I've never been a fan of free for all PvP with full looting because no development team has figured out a way to create one that made sense. I won't go so far as to say what CoE is presenting is the perfect system, but it looks leagues above anything ever created before.

Best improvements against so called "griefing"

  1. Players can't just log off to hide because you are still logged in as an OPC.
  2. Random attacks could prove to be anti productive since you could mug a poor guy and get nothing in return for your increased infamy.
  3. A griefer may also run the risk of being blacklisted by the entire community. Which could mean anything as simple as being KoS to everyone if in the area or as complicated as being hunted down until permakilled by bounty hunters.

I would also like to reiterate what Victoria was getting at about the definition of griefing. Someone incapacitating you is not what I would consider griefing because that is to be expected in a realistic game. What I would consider griefing is for someone to kill you and camp your corpse while at the same time sending you vulgar insults via tells about how you suck. So one must understand, if the game mechanics allow it, it can't be considered griefing. It's up to the serial killer to decide if it's worth it. If it turns out killing people pays well, than perhaps the devs need to investigate the punishment not being enough of a deterrent or the community can simply band together and permakill the murderer till they themself give up.

8/25/2015 3:42:56 PM #11

Well one way that a player community could do to really discoruage a griefer is a warning by making a vampire and then killing them as a huge consequence if they are overgriefing to the point of the town getting greatly annoyed woth them because if they die as a vampire with the original vampire alive the consequence is much greater than just a permadeath. 

8/25/2015 3:53:54 PM #12

Lol. A league of Vampire Bounty Hunters. A griefer gets a bounty on his head and the Vampire BH goes out and makes them a Thrall.

8/25/2015 4:06:17 PM #13

Can Vampires kill other Vampires? It seems strange that you could not only steal someone’s soul but then immediately  perma-kill them so they had to buy a new soul. That really would be griefing.  

Author of the Elyria Echo the first, and least up-to-date, CoE fan site.

8/25/2015 4:49:34 PM #14

I imagine there will be an evolution of methods to stop greifing. In particular, as some others have mentioned, the fact that lives cost money will help. I also imagine that this could be used in other ways too, to perform some 'social engineering'.

For example, people who roleplay well, or lead lives that enrich the play of others in the game could be awarded influence points, and thereby make their purchase of subsequent lives cheaper. Those who do not, will not get these points (and possibly have them taken away for destructive actions like greifing). this will make it more expensive for them to carry on and encourage them to leave or reform. 

Or to put it another way, the problem with griefing in previous games was that the griefers had nothing to lose. Hopefully in CoE they will. 

8/25/2015 4:52:01 PM #15

I don't think griefing would be a problem, unless you have huge stacks of dollars in your wallet.

In my opinion, jail time will reduce griefers in CoE, because it can stack up months or weeks in real time, and even you character will age over time and probably die in there.

Death sentences would be better than jail time for people who commit massive murders/crimes; like killing a king or queen, or maybe killing a whole village.