COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
what's really going on? Band together
-21

My original post was calling for the community to stop funding, due to what I saw as lack of proof of production and constant false date releases. Though this post I have learned a great deal more now that I had that dispite privous attempts to find out about similar info with no seceuss. (Hence my revised post) I still strongly think COE needs to stop posting dates until they are sure they can be met but if what I'm told is true and they have only 20 staff I can see how challenging it can be. Also I am now aware that the production side is only 2 years in the making so coupled with the minimal staff I cant complain about where they are at really. But I believe if they want to get moving they need at least double the staff or more. Hopefully they will get a backer soon.

A few things I really do think they need to try to focus on is drop all else if possible and get the selection site up quickly. That will go a ways to improving trust with us supporters. Second is I heard that Coe is having a hard time getting backing becuase they wont do a cash box. It's great Coe is holding on that but what about a cash box for only cosmetics similar to what fortnite does. They still make a ton without changing the fairness of the game for the most part. Also many games have had cash shop items that did vary little, like a item that gave a glider 2x speed for 10 sec, in a game where gliders where only used to minimal travel thus not really damaging the gameplay just a little fun trinket.

Anyway even though this has caused some controversy I'm glad I wrote it as it has helped me learn a lot and changed my prospective to some degree.

P.S. for those who dropped 10-20k holy shit what kinda job do you have and how can I get in your field lol.


5/25/2019 5:57:13 PM #1
+3

I disagree with just about everything you are saying, except the funding part. (was replying to original post, not the edited version)

If you have any doubts at all about the game coming out, about the progress being made, or about the studio pumping out something we can play in the not so distant future, by all means stop sending money their way.

No one is required to keep funneling money in, or participating in promos, and if it's just going to stress you out as a player then by all means sit back a bit and let events unfold until you feel reassured that SbS is doing right by us.

That being said, I don't think an intentional and combined effort is required for this. Individually people should certainly make this call as spending money on the game just to regret it isn't beneficial to anyone involved, but doing it just because everyone is doing it just backs SbS into a corner where instead of making a game they have to worry about funding.

I don't know enough about game design to say whether 3 years is short, or long, or what have you. But we continue to see progress, we continue to push forward, and I for one am involved with the community for the long haul, not just to play alpha 1 for 5 minutes and then fade out until launch.

Many people are getting restless about not having something playable yet, and that is entirely understandable, but let's just get past D&SS first and then look toward Pre-Alpha and whatever else SbS has for us next.


5/25/2019 6:04:37 PM #2
+9

To be perfectly frank, you're about 2 weeks too late for this post because all the same venting already happened back on May 12th. We also had a community wide voice chat with Caspian.

There are already enough posts being bumped on this topic for you to jump into if you really must that it's just unnecessary to be spawning a new thread complaining about the same things. Please take a second to read through the most recent posts list.


5/25/2019 6:08:30 PM #3
-1

Game creation takes time, a lot of it. Game creation for a game this ambitious and original, it will take even longer. When it comes down to it, people are free to make their own choices and spend their own money in whatever way they choose to, you don’t get a say in it. The fact that they earned over 6 million dollars for this game clearly shows that they have a strong backing and a strong interest, and therefor a large amount of people dedicated to its success.

This happens with every single game that has come out - delays and disappointments, it’s part of the industry. Many have given hundreds, if not thousands to see this game come to fruition, and won’t quickly abandon it due to minor inconveniences. Frustrating? Absolutely! Game breaking? Hardly.

If you’re so frustrated with the speed of production, step away for a while, bide your time with other things until the time comes. It will come, it just may not be as soon as you want it to be.


5/25/2019 6:18:09 PM #4
-2

"...cant even get a map selection site up anywhere close to the promised date."

This just proves you have zero clue as to what is actually going on.

But thank you for your valuable input.


Imgur

5/26/2019 12:50:19 AM #5
-4

Posted By graytoni at

I'm making this post because I'm losing faith in this game. I'm hoping this post will ether light a fire under the companies ass or stop its funding until we see real progress. It's been 3+years and 6.1 million dollars in funding, and Soulbound cant even get a map selection site up anywhere close to the promised date. The postponing and excuses seem to be a regular occurrence. In addition we have only seen a Minimal display of game mechanics, assuming it was real.

AT THIS POINT I'm really unsure if this game will ever get made. I honestly implore the players STOP FUNDING THIS GAME!!

Just stop until they get there stuff together, if it's a legit game then they will get it together and get it going when there funding dries up. STOP funding them until we get real serious results not these crumbs and delays. Wow when it first came out had 200 employees working on it to complete it in the 3 year deadline. Yes it had bugs but we were still playing it.

Even if the selection gets made still STOP FUNDING until we see a beta.

Let's show soulbound studios that words mean little and actions mean all.

This post is not made to put down the company but to light a fire under their butts.

Completely agree! I have 4+ years here, on this community.... I didn't talk too much, but I read everything. The progress is very very slow.....5 year and we have...nothing! (sorry, we have 6+ million). Maybe SBS wants to catch....Star Citizens??


209920 WALLACHIA

5/26/2019 1:54:57 AM #6
+8

I'm pretty loud about criticising SBS. But if you are going to use facts, at least be right about them. While it may have been 3 years since KS. They really didn't start working on the game until early 2017.

I do agree with the funding part. Anyone that doesn't feel confidence within SBS shouldn't be giving them money. That's just foolish at that rate.

Bringing up WoW just shows they are pretty much right on track. While you aren't even using the right facts about WoW. Doing a quick google search. WoW took around 4-5 years to make. Oddly couldn't find how many people did work on it, but a few hundred would have been about right. The key point, they spent 200 million making it.

So how do you expect an indie company, with a tiny 6 million and around 20 people to really do anything in 3 years? When really any other company that has made an MMO. Had normally at least 100 people and tens of millions.

You could somewhat compare CoE to Ashes of Creation. The latter had their KS about a year afterwards. They have way more money and last I read, had around 200 employees. Yet they have also gone basically nowhere.


5/26/2019 1:56:45 AM #7
+3

Let's me adress some of the replies posted. -Labbe; your right I dont have to donate and I have stopped doing so. But i have put hundreds, time and recommend this game so yes I do feel uncomfortable with what I have seen/failed to see. But I appreciate the polite calm reply.

-Hieronymus; I was unaware of the priovus threads I've been extremely busy. I appreciate you telling me, do you have a link to the chat with caspian?

-Brekke; yes it does take time, quite a lot, but there should be more progress shown that what has been for the time/funds they have had I believe. I have myself done 3d modeling and animation, as well as minor programming and studied game design and mechanics so I'm NOT by any means an expert buti do gave some small idea of what is entailed. I also believe it's better to get a basic version out in testing that try to get a full perfected version ready first.

-Marovec; your completely wrong go back there have been promises release dates estimates put on the maps since server selection that have been constantly not met and that actually pushes players away or creates mistrust to a greater extent than to just wait longer with no info date promises.

As for the Dont donate, I have found Very few games will act as readily or even at all some times as if there income is cut off. I wanted to Express my opinion as so many others have and hope others agree so will see a United front. I understand many wont agree but that's ok, I respect others opinions as I hope they respect mine.


5/26/2019 2:07:33 AM #8
+0

Posted Thank you for the information, what I had been given was incorrect as I was informed they had started in early 2016. As for wow I knew a guy working on it and it was the planning funding resource stage for a while before it ever got started. Why does COE only have 20 people? That is far to few to make a game comparable to ashes of creation. Why with 6.1 mil reasied are they not hiring 70-100 poeple to put the game in high gear?


5/26/2019 2:36:17 AM #9
+6

Posted By graytoni at 12:07 PM - Sun May 26 2019

Why does COE only have 20 people? That is far to few to make a game comparable to ashes of creation. Why with 6.1 mil reasied are they not hiring 70-100 poeple to put the game in high gear?

While I have no idea of the average wages for devs, in the US. Even if they only make 40k a year, times 20 people. That's already 800k a year. So isn't it clear why they don't hire more?

They did at one point have more people. But figured they would get a publisher on board as well. Until naturally, saw all publishers are wankers that wanted to loot box the shit out of the game post launch.


5/26/2019 2:55:45 AM #10
+6

Posted By Marovec at 2:18 PM - Sat May 25 2019

"...cant even get a map selection site up anywhere close to the promised date."

This just proves you have zero clue as to what is actually going on.

But thank you for your valuable input.

I think it's you who has no clue what is actually going on. They have definitely missed the dates that were promised. At first it was going to be in December but was moved because they didn't want to interfere with the holidays and people's plans, which i was totally okay with. It was then said that it would take place in February. Then we were told beginning of April. Then April 29th was put out. Then everyone is aware of what happened during the month of May. Sure they now have promised not to give a date. But that doesn't mean they have missed every exit on the way.

But thank you for your valuable input.

5/26/2019 4:18:20 AM #11
+8

TBH, anyone who thinks SBS is not aware of the problem of community losing faith is lying to themselves.

That is the reason they put a date to things when they have not entered the testing phase of said deliverable. And yes, it bites them back when they can't meet it, which is what happened in the past few months

With that said, with your experience in 3D modelling and animations, how would lighting a fire under your ass impact your work?

Btw, this is their latest info on the maps

The true problem isn't SBS is slacking off / un productive. The problem was 6 million is not enough for the company to afford our desired development speed (partly due to the complexity of the game , management problem? possibly).

As Gunnlang said, the original plan was not to complete the game with pure crowd funding money, but to use it for development and proof to investors that SBS's vision have a strong market. Unfortunately, back in 2017, all attempt of securing publishers / investors was met by the request of adding loot box / cash grab mechanics to the game.

Staying true to the original vision, SBS has turned down all those offer. Is SBS still negotiating with investors to buy into the company's vision? I believe so, but I have no proof. I am pretty sure Caspian has a very strong stance on keeping 100% autonomy since we need to avoid all sort of interference for the story of CoE to progress over the 10 year span. Yes, I still believe in SBS.

Now, what have they been doing over the past few months, why is DSS not ready despite SBS originally said it can be out in Dec-18?

All we can do here is speculate :

With the shinies (in past months) showing combats and adventuring stuff, I am guessing they have been focusing on things related to that, instead of D&SS. Which is why they have only ran into problems in their simulation / alogrithim recently.

Let's be honest here, I have no clue on how programming / duties of programmers interact. So I have no clue if the whole team can ever be 100% focus on D&SS. Maybe even if SBS gave full force in pushing D&SS , still only 60% of the staff can be contributing to its progress. That is up to Caspian to answer.

And here, we come to the heart of the question. Why would SBS focus working on non - D&SS stuff in the past few months when they had announced D&SS could have happened in Dec-18? WTF?

No one has yet to answer this question. All we can do is speculate:

I guess it is because of something we as the community are unaware of. If SBS had always wished for more funding with help from investors, it must convince the more risk avoiding investors in the financial market. (Cuz those who are willing to take the risk of CoE are just scumbags wishing for cash grab)

What would you need to convince the risk avoiding investors? You need to proof you are capable of the tasks you are selling them. Which means it is something that we as the community has always been asking for---- a deliverable.

A deliverable like Pre-Elyria, can help the company's 2 most pressing problems at the moment:

1) the community losing faith

2) A lack of funding

So... what come out of it? i guess SBS's internal plan was to show us something this KS anniversary, but they ran into roadblocks, so they shift gear and went all in to D&SS. And of course, they also ran into roadblocks.

Not sure if SBS will ever come out to explain everything, maybe only after PreElyria is out? That's my 2 cents on the current situation. As for now, all we can do is wait / pray / donate.


Never argue with an idiot, cuz he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Vice mayor of Lighthalzen

5/26/2019 5:27:19 AM #12
+1

I tell you the truth, the people who are working on this game are progressing the genre to where it must go, to a place no company has truly gone before. Fund or don’t, according to your own situation and judgement.

In the meantime, feel free to play the upcoming WoW Classic, a re-release of the same game they released once before, unchanged and as ultimately as unrewarding as it was the first time because it’s not an evolving online world.


5/26/2019 7:11:09 AM #13
+0

Posted By Dalesson at 3:27 PM - Sun May 26 2019

In the meantime, feel free to play the upcoming WoW Classic, a re-release of the same game they released once before, unchanged and as ultimately as unrewarding as it was the first time because it’s not an evolving online world.

Personally I'm hyped as hell for that. It's the community I miss from every MMO out there. Most are full of utter wankers and/or you really don't need people at all to play the game. Apart from the some end game.

It's why I love the ideas CoE. The need for other people. Don't see much point playing an MMO, yet not wanting group activities.


5/26/2019 7:13:17 AM #14
+2

Posted By graytoni at 7:07 PM - Sat May 25 2019

Posted Thank you for the information, what I had been given was incorrect as I was informed they had started in early 2016. As for wow I knew a guy working on it and it was the planning funding resource stage for a while before it ever got started. Why does COE only have 20 people? That is far to few to make a game comparable to ashes of creation. Why with 6.1 mil reasied are they not hiring 70-100 poeple to put the game in high gear?

Here's my math.

6.1 million / 100.000 per person-year = 61 person-years.

61 person-years / 3 years = 20.3 persons.

It actually seems to me that the SBS staffing level is just about what their funding will allow.

You can disagree with my cost per person-year, but I've found out that a company's cost per employee is actually about double what an employee earns in nominal salary and wages. I can even make the case that I'm low-balling the figure.


5/26/2019 7:58:44 AM #15
+3

The only thing I can add to this with 100% certainty is that if all future funding stopped then the game we are all eagerly waiting for will not come out.

Personally, since my initial splurge of mayor+wagon for two, I’ve only maintained a trickle over the years. But that’s due to personal circumstance.

Nobody should put forward what they can’t afford to lose, but yeah if you still have some faith and some disposable income then absolutely let’s try and keep this thing going.


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