I've noticed this as well and put in an official complaint. I would recommend you do the same and email support with your specific concern. If SBS sees a trend, action might be taken.

Seconded.

are you referring to the irl science that was being discussed regarding population decline and how population decline harms society, thus provides reason to implement population procreation laws if the same thing does occur ingame? I was told that that discussion was blatant violation of CoC and ToS. I think it just hurt someone's feelings. Since, it was entirely grounded in science and was merely a postulation that discussed a what if ingame scenario

That sounds like another instance, but no this is in reference to the locked post about the advent calendars, where the mod/staff edited their position (or at least what appears to be their position) on whether or not it is a lootbox.

As someone who, as a hobby, manages or helps manage several large communities, seeing that kind of action triggers the ever living hell out of me.

If you are a moderator and you want to express an opinion make a post.

That is basic stuff.

Posted By Avastar at 1:39 PM - Tue Dec 03 2019

are you referring to the irl science that was being discussed regarding population decline and how population decline harms society, thus provides reason to implement population procreation requirements? I was told that that discussion was blatant violation of CoC and ToS. I think it just hurt the mods feelings. Since, it was entirely grounded in science

I am not pointing to any specific instance, I am pointing to all of them.

Outside of very limited cases (cases which, for as long as the forum has been around, have evidently never occurred since I can't ever really remember seeing an "Admin/Mod Edit" in here before), Admins/Mods should never edit someone else's post...period.

Again, I am all for them needing to close a thread (though I don't always agree with their reasoning), or to specifically call out or respond to a post/thread they don't approve of.

However, editing someone else's post just creates too many potential issues.

For example:

"ADMIN EDIT: Removed post quoted, unnecessary."

Is this the level of interaction we can now expect from the Mod team (assuming there is a "team")? Maybe the poster viewed it as necessary? How do we know it was unnecessary? How do we know it just wasn't something you didn't like? Or didn't want repeated? Or didn't want on the main page people clicked on?

Sure, I get it...quotes can get messy sometimes. However, while the intent may be to just be helpful, it sets a bad precedent. As I just pointed out, people aren't going to assume you are trying to be helpful, they are going to assume you are trying to censor.

My instance was an entire page worth of respectful conversation. I even messaged the mod about it and haven't received a reply after 72 hours. Maybe the mod needs more time to respond to PMs or maybe the mod is flat out ignoring the message. It was a holiday weekend. Tho it was removed and other edits made to posts that weren't removed during the same weekend.

Interesting, it now seems, as I look back, the posts in one of the threads about the Advent Calendar that had "Mod Edits" seem to have been deleted completely...

Definitely seems to be leaning in a censorship direction if that is the case.

Granted, maybe I am just looking in the wrong spot...

In case it isn't clear, given that I am not in favor of Mods editing posts, I am definitely not in favor of them deleting them entirely.

Posted By CountKel at 10:42 AM - Tue Dec 03 2019

That sounds like another instance, but no this is in reference to the locked post about the advent calendars, where the mod/staff edited their position (or at least what appears to be their position) on whether or not it is a lootbox.

As someone who, as a hobby, manages or helps manage several large communities, seeing that kind of action triggers the ever living hell out of me.

If you are a moderator and you want to express an opinion make a post.

That is basic stuff.

agreed

Speaking about mod actions in the open forum is against the TOS and will likely lead to a lock or deletion of this post as a whole. Best bet is to email sbs or pm a supermod/SERP rather than posting here.

Now that said as a former mod I made several “mod edits” to posts and those quoting them in the guild section and several in general discussion when folks started attacking each other rather than discussing the persons position, racial remarks being used and other TOS violations.

I would assume that’s still the procedure in use. Though I do share a dislike of censorship of criticism against sbs aka white knighting or simply out of sight out of mind for dissent. The likelyhood of that is small in my opinion. We are likely seeing something being removed that was against the tos though I agree a better discretion as to why the edit is warranted in some cases.

Posted By Malais at 2:33 PM - Tue Dec 03 2019

Speaking about mod actions in the open forum is against the TOS and will likely lead to a lock or deletion of this post as a whole. Best bet is to email sbs or pm a supermod/SERP rather than posting here.

Now that said as a former mod I made several “mod edits” to posts and those quoting them in the guild section and several in general discussion when folks started attacking each other rather than discussing the persons position, racial remarks being used and other TOS violations.

I would assume that’s still the procedure in use. Though I do share a dislike of censorship of criticism against sbs aka white knighting or simply out of sight out of mind for dissent. The likelyhood of that is small in my opinion. We are likely seeing something being removed that was against the tos though I agree a better discretion as to why the edit is warranted in some cases.

Like I said, personal attacks, racism, etc...I get that, and support that.

However, barring one case where that seems to be the justification, that isn't what is happening.

Posted By Malais at 12:33 PM - Tue Dec 03 2019

Speaking about mod actions in the open forum is against the TOS and will likely lead to a lock or deletion of this post as a whole.

where is that written? where is the TOS? I found the ToU and the CoC, yet neither state that.

Best bet is to email sbs or pm a supermod/SERP rather than posting here.

this is a community discussion about understanding how posts are moderated and thereby improving how we as the community conduct ourselves within our posts. I hope we can present what happened so that we can receive input from others on how to better conduct ourselves in accordance with the ToS, ToU, and CoC.

As it currently stands, it appears that there is certainly some confusion regarding the ToS, ToU, and CoC. As shown by those that consider the mods and supermods to by tyrants instead of reasonable moderators that follow the ToS, ToU, and CoC

Posted By Kyleran at 2:46 PM - Tue Dec 03 2019

While I often live "under the bridge" I view moderation on official forums as a case of, their house, their rules.

I prefer severe moderation actions be notated by the mod as to why an action was taken, but hey, if they don't want to it's their choice.

I have always spent more of my forum time on independent sites which are much more tolerent of my views, but when I am here I try to stay (mostly) within the guidelines as well as the community norms.

I am in no way suggesting that people be free to violate any guidelines.

My comment was the recent uptick in what appears to be "Mod Edits", or subsequent deletions, of posts that don't violate anything, as opposed to an actual comment/response.

Obviously, it's their forums, and they have the "right" to censor it however they wish.

I am simply hoping that this isn't an indication of a shift towards "get rid of anything we don't like".

However, you are correct in that, if that is how they want to handle things...that's their choice.

Let me see if I can help shed some light on this subject:

Mod Edits

If a moderator edits a post, it is discussed among the mod team. I have said this before but will restate for posterity - mods don't act alone.

If a mod edits something after discussing it with the team and it is deemed inappropriate or against our policies, we will remove the offending content by deleting the post.

If a post has relevant content in it and only one part is against our policy, we may at our discretion edit that part out. If the part breaks our rules, we aren't going to include why it was deleted to anyone other than the person who posted it, as it may not be relevant to all.

Lastly, the reason we use "mod edit" is to avoid harassment and targeting of mods who players disagree with. This has happened before, became an issue more than once, and this is a way we can avoid that.

If a post is edited by a mod, it will say "mod edit".

Admin edits

If a post is edited by a Soulbound Studios employee who has the ability to edit posts, it will say "Admin edit". Only a few members of the SBS team have admin abilities for many reasons, so you shouldn't expect that to occur unless it is Caspian or myself most of the time.

Every once in a while, someone may post a reply that isn't constructive or helpful in any way, and simply is an attempt to bash or put down the studio. In these rare cases, we will communicate with the individual directly, but we aren't going to advertise our administrative actions as that isn't the public's business, it is related specifically to the individual who was moderated, and we don't need to give fuel to trolls.

It isn't a debate we are going to have with the community, it is a policy we have adopted utilizing best practices to try and keep the conversation and community a safe and welcoming place for all.

You may not agree with how we moderate or even when we moderate, and that is completely understandable.

But it isn't realistic to expect us to put up for community scrutiny every decision to moderate we follow through on.

In conclusion

I would also like to note that every action a moderator takes, whether it is removing or editing out content from a forum post, removing a signature or avatar, warning a player via PM, it is all logged and recorded so any instance of something being moderated can easily be explained to the person who was moderated if they simply reach out and ask.

Emailing us at [email protected] will get you an explanation of what you did wrong. It may not make you feel better, help to appeal your moderation, or be something you can change, but we are more than willing to be transparent and provide the reasons that led to the moderation.

@Avastar, if you have a question about our policy, such as not discussing moderation, feel free to reach out to me directly or email support and I am happy to explain why.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

Thanks for listening.