A persona tends to be a detailled description of a person (or group of persons). So the suggestion you made are things I would expect.

As far as I understanded from SBS its more a webbased feature then ingame. With an example being made how to contact unknown titleholders in your territory through personas. Personas are also not traceable to the exact person without that person actually saying thats me.

In addition : For titleholders (optional) : territories and a short description of it, either machine generated with the map parameters or made by the person itself.

Excellent thread for 2020.

Much of our persona will develop in game once we're aware of the resources we have at hand and the politics of the surrounding region. As far as the website persona system, I would just hope for a short bio and a few behavioral questions regarding your intended playstyle. Going beyond that on the website doesn’t serve much purpose before release, in my opinion.

Might I suggest using Personas and the Map to enact Kingdoms of Elyria? This would allow players to build their history, establish their settlements and get excited about the game once again, rather than waiting till Exposition.

What I mean by using the map is allowing players to get a peek into their individual domains, wherein they could further strategize what they want to do.

Just some food for thought. :)

you could have it so you set persona with dialogue with a child in the bloodline like have the child be like "i saw someone from another tribe" and your character can have like racist or "tribist" responses or nice responses that the child soaks in and acts the way you respond or some shit like that

In regards to the "out of game" persona system, the biggest factor, in my opinion, will be how they choose/allow it to relate to, or be reflected by, your "in game" persona.

For example, let's assume they build a robust persona creation tool for us to start building our identities out of game, construct organizations, acquire members, etc.

How will they ensure that the identities we build can be reflected in game?

How will they deal with an organization designed out of game will actually end up being in game, in the event someone changes their mind?

I can create a long list of "what ifs" regarding the out of game/in game connections, but it is ultimately limited by lack of information.

No, this isn't about communication...seriously, I'm not on a soap box here.

I can definitely see the potential value of an out of game persona system.

My questions/concerns revolve around the timing of it, and how it will link to what actually ends up being created in game.

How do we ensure "validity" of the persona system, beyond it just being an out of game "fun to have" thing.

If it's just a fun to have thing, then I would question the development time for it. If it's not just a fun to have thing, I would question the wisdom of doing it this soon.

Most of the suggestions I have seen revolve around tie-ins to actual game mechanics. I think it would be prudent to make sure those mechanics are locked in before people start using an out of game system that reflects them.

Just my 2 cents.

Conceptually, I love the idea.

Practically...I need more info before I can truly make suggestions.

The OP did a fine job of outlining some features of a persona system that straddled the in-game/out-game divide. It would be good to have a system that could be useful in both contexts. One thing I do not like about the OP proposal is that it seems to require work on the part of players who use it, in the form of creating an origin story. Although some players may want to start with an origin story, I don't think it should be a requirement.

From an in-game perspective, there will be plenty of characters who don't have any idea of their origins -- think Ward of the State or recent descendants of Wards of the State. From an out-of-game perspective, an origin story is less important than the here-and-now sense of character that emerges from a player's presentation and interactions. From both perspectives, it is better to let an account of origin emerge from the interactions among players, especially if a player does not possess a storied domain or come from a storied great family.

If we are tossing out are wish list for Persona ideas, I'll play...

In my opinion for this world to have the desired "weight" or authenticity, it would require tying everything back to the idea that this is not the Dawn of Elyria, but that this is somewhere in the Midst of Elyria.

What I mean by that is that the history of the previous generation must influence the details and interactions of the current inhabitants.

This is especially relevant the more influential the role of the individual in society. The higher up the tree, the more that individual effects those below.

For example, there needs to be an in game reason why King Bob is The King. And that reason needs to be tied to King Bob's whole backstory. Some reason beyond the fact that real-world out-of-game Bob spent the money to buy the title.

And it is these generational stories that will make the skeleton for the individual stories that the other players are fleshing out around them.

This idea then trickles down the whole social scale all the way to the local level.

Even the smallest hamlets and villages are made up of the local elders. Who are these families and how did they develop this particular patch of Elyria out of the whole vast continent to get to where we are now?

Wards of the State would also have a Persona.

They are not just spawned out of, or into, a vacuum. How and why did they end up in the situation where they do not have the familial and social systems that are the cultural norms?

If the Lore sets the parameters and the overarching themes of the tribes, it would then be the Persona system that would individualize these themes to the specific point in time where Elyria is now.

And it is from this point, that the individual player begins to write their own story.

Inking the page in the next chapter of The Chronicles of Elyria.

I totally agree with Kajoreh, one of the hardest thing i have experienced with CoE is to build meaningful lore.

Not character lore, that one and that's one of the wonderful things about CoE, we will write by playing, no personal background needed, but what about family lore, domain lore ???

When you wander around the forums and the communities you'll encounter people that have held up on building lore for they are feeling they do not know enough or do not want yet to fill the blanks while mechanisms are being worked on and such. Others have dived fully into building lore, some trying to put as much of official CoE lore compliance into it, others going full awol often unaware or unwilling to recognize that their lore would need to be discarded when it wont fit or reconcile with what actual Elyria's lore will come up.

We do not know much but we know some. We know that KoE the first part when we are going to be in control of our family lore and to some extent of our domain lore, will take place in our characters recent past, some 60 years ago or some.

We also know that 600 years ago there was the searing plague and the events that unfolded at that time.

We also know that 800 years ago we transitioned from the 3rd to the 4th age.

And finally we know that the great drought, some event that marked To'resk, Janoa and Dras past deeply happened a millennia ago.

Deeper in the past beyond that point is fuzzy and unknown mostly legends more than dates and facts.

So how do we reconcile the past of our families and domains with that rough time line, what happened between those roughly 900 years between the big drought and the start of KoE, what role our ancestors played in it, when did they actually appeared ??????

I hope for the personas to give some of those answers, i'd love them to use that system and the map to have us collectively build our continents past and lore and in that building timeline give us enough room and knowledge to build our domain and family lore, for us and for every body else that will step into our server.

because i want to know, because i do not want to keep holding back and because i want to not see and read good lore that i sadly know will be scraped.

I dont really have any predisposed wishes for Personas themselves but now that we have been told that they are likely to be tied into the DSS map, there are some aspects of those that I wish to see on the map.

So do please tie those in, do please have the title holding persona be listed there as well as the image of the Coat of Arms for that persona/family. This could be done in a manner that very easily allows a casual observer to look and understand the relationships at that level even better. The Monarch's CoA could be slightly larger than a Duke's CoA. The Duke's is slightly larger than a Count's. The Counts slightly larger than a Mayors. This will give a very quick visual indicator of the political landscape of that domain area.

I think those two additions will very much help bring those DSS maps to life much more so for both people that have claims on the map as well as for the casual observers.

Cool suggestions, good post +1

Really cool post thank you for getting this started!

I agree that the majority of our characters individual histories will likely be determined in game alongside their personal origin stories. Did they grow up as a son or daughter to a blacksmith? Well that is determined by the person you spawn into or how the character was raised as a child.

Where I think personas can offer the most is the histories of the family. Not the current generations or your immediate characters but from past generations and the characters that you might have played if the game started just a bit earlier. It may allow us, the players, to put our own stamps on elyria before even entering the game. You might argue that domain selection did this and you would be right but this expands the window to many more players.

Once again, thank you OP for the initial post.

Great idea, since things are very easily lost. You should define what "Persona" means or indicates in this instance, in your intro post though. For those who might not be aware.

There are several existing definitions of Persona.

from Merriam-Webster

from Wikipedia, including both the Jungian and system-analytic usage

from Atlus

Perhaps SBS is using the term in its user-experience-design analysis sense. If so, perhaps we can all decide to take on the troll persona to test the reliability and durability of the persona system and implementation. I know, I know, the concept is somewhat circular, if not entirely pointless.

Thank you everyone for your replies! I have gained considerable insights from reading your posts.

Like I mentioned earlier, and I would like to reiterate, that the premise is of course if we could have anything we want for the Persona system. I personally think that we should aim for the stars and be as bold and aggressive about what we hope to see in this system. Let SbS be the one to decide and moderate which ideas are feasible and appropriate.

Of course, the counter argument is equally valid. A feature creep might delay production and derail the Persona system from its original purpose. To that I say, do continue to post your thoughts, but let SbS be the one to weigh the pros and cons.

How I think an Origin Story within the Persona system can be implemented

As rightfully mentioned by Leiywen and KalTheo, the Persona system is a web based system. You can either leave it as such, or give it a greater purpose. That purpose I think can be used to encourage activity, participation in later events and lore building.

How we can do it? Here, I largely agree with Kajoreh, Markof and Orundelle.

1. The Persona system can be used to create family histories and identities

What is a persona if not another identity? Without a character creation tool it is not possible for us to create an identity or identities for our in-game character; or can we?

You are your parent's child and your parent's your grandparent's child. That is a form of identity isn't it? At least to your parent's and your grandparent's friends, it is your identity to them. For that reason, I believe that you can play as a persona, even without a character creator (Actually Caspian mentioned this on discord, but he limited it to bloodline+)

2. Web based events can be used to create family histories

Remember The Searing Plague event? Remember the different roles that we played during The Searing Plague event? Remember the either-or choices that we had during The Lost Vault event? Who played these roles? Who made these choices? Should the roles that we played during these events be lost? Should the choices that we made be lost? What if they have lingering consequences for the individual players who made them?

I think the Persona system can be expended to record the roles, contribution and choices that we made during these events. These would give these events more meaning, encourage early backers to continue to be engaged and encourage those who choose to participate.

3. Family History need not be limited to those who have Surnames (Bloodline +)

Elyrians without surnames should also be to benefit from this system. This is because Elyrians will eventually be born into a NPC family or become a Ward of the State. Simply because you were born into NPC family, your family never had any family history? You were born into a NPC family of Bakers, your NPC family could very well be the most famous bakers in the region. People should react to you, asking you for bread everytime you meet them. You chose to be a bandit during a web based event? People should remember that in-game and react to you accordingly.

Wards of the State should also be included. Just because you are a Ward, nobody remembers who your parents were? Your ancestors could have been a line of famous doctors and your parents could have been heroes who chose to leave you behind in safety so they could treat others during the Searing Plague (or Covid-19). Or you can very well be Uzumaki Naruto, everyone in Konohagakure would know him (and avoid him).

4. What about those who joins later or chooses not to participate in any web base event or simply wants a blank state that they want to start off with?

For those who will eventually join later. Bloodline + packages will most likely be taken off the store. Leaving only Elyrians who can only either join a NPC family or be a Ward. To that I propose that the Persona system also allows for players to adopt or absorb other players into their family. This will allow for players who come later to benefit from players who have already supported the game for some time (A very good recruitment tool). This should not be limited for players without a surname but also include players who choose to give up their surname to join another family.

Another suggestion would be to create templated family origin / histories that the player can choose from. One of the option for these family origin / history template can be an “Obscure Origin” option to cater to those who want a clean slate. As I haven’t really thought in depth on how to implement the template system. I will leave till later to provide a more detailed suggestion.

These are my suggestions for the family history / origin system within the Persona System as of now. I will appreciate any comments that will help improve my suggestion. Thank you!