29 December

New pledge package concerns

By Vye

Kind greetings, Elyrians,

There has been some confusion about the new pledge packages so I've compiled a list of the issues I can find and will address them in this post.

Designing the New Packages

Probably the easiest way to assuage your concerns is to shed light on the process we used to come up with the new packages.

Before we begin it should be noted there were 19 tiers before that were numbered 1 through 19 in our database. There are 12 packages now. To allow people to upgrade from their previous Kickstarter tiers to the appropriate pledge packages we had to create a mapping between the numbers. The mapping is listed below for convenience. Please keep in mind this list doesn't take into account the removal of any of the Kickstarter exclusive items, nor does it show the removal of Merchandise Credit. It just shows how the tiers were mapped.

Old Price -> New Price
- 1 -> 1 ($35 -> $40)
- 2 -> 2 ($40 -> $70)
- 3 -> 2 ($60 -> $70)
- 4 -> 3 ($75 -> $100)
- 5 -> 3 ($100 -> $100)
- 6 -> 4 ($120 -> $125)
- 7 -> 5 ($150 -> $175)
- 8 -> 6 ($200 -> $225)
- 9 -> 7 ($250 -> $250)
- 10 -> 8 ($350 -> $500)
- 11 -> 9 ($500 -> $750)
- 12 -> 10 ($750 -> $1000)
- 13 -> 10 ($1000 -> $1000)
- 14 -> 11 ($1.5k -> $5k)
- 15 -> 11 ($2.0k -> $5k)
- 16 -> 11 ($2.5k -> $5k)
- 17 -> 11 ($3.5k -> $5k)
- 18 -> 12 ($5k -> $10k)
- 19 -> 12 ($10k -> $10k)

As you can see from the list above, the majority of tiers increased in price, while those that didn't still had their value reduced through the loss of either merchandise credit, kickstarter exclusive items, or even noble titles.

In spite of that, I see a lot of folks cherry picking the individual items of the packages they valued highly and using that to state that "such-and-such package has more relative EP" or that "new packages have new things that outclass the old ones."

The problem is, you really have to look at the packages holistically, and consider that in most cases, it requires a higher up-front investment from new backers to get the same results. We have stated that all the original packages were better than the new ones, so let me take a moment to show you why.

  1. We took all the items in every original package and assigned a dollar value to them. This included digital goods, access to various phases, sparks of life, EP, and everything.

  2. We then stripped out all Kickstarter-exclusive items (ex. emotes, option for a phoenix pet, etc). While these may have varying meaning to different people, it's important to note that as backers there's an inherent value in being able to visibly show you were there at the beginning.

  3. The remaining packages were then condensed from the 19 packages to the 12 listed above. This resulted in some of the new packages staying relatively similar, while others become the combination of 2, 3, or even 4 of the previous tiers. (ex. Royal is mostly the combination of the tiers from $1500-$3500 previously).

  4. We were relatively happy with the ramp on the prices so we left many of the prices the same but, in many cases, assigned that price to what had once been a lower-tier package (ex. Royal is largely what Duke/Duchess was at $3.5k, only $1.5k more expensive).

  5. Merchandise Credit was removed and converted into EP for any package that had it. This was $25, $50, or $100 worth of EP depending on the tier.

  6. We added up all the value for everything now in the new packages and looked at the difference between the old package at the equivalent price, and the new package. In many cases, the new package was in line with what we intended: less value for more money. We left those pretty much alone (ex. Elyrian, Bloodline, Mayor, Monarch).

  7. In the cases where there was a large discrepancy, we brought up the value of the rewards in the package to be in line with the rest of them. This was actually the hardest part and we put in several hours of discussion and math to make sure we did this fairly.

    The biggest discrepancy, and hardest area to address fairly, were the $500, $750, and $1000 packages. A County used to be in the $500 package, but now it was at $1000. For anyone who had a County at $500, but wanted to upgrade to a duchy, that person would have to put up $5000--10 times as much--for the privilege. We're not saying that titles should be cheap, but we wanted a way for those folks to still have some value when upgrading to the $750 or $1000 package.

    This is where the furnished house came in. Based on our valuation of the packages, the $500 package was now about $300 less valuable than it should be since it no longer included a county, and was really just the $350 tier increased by $150. The $750 package was also undervalued by around $500 since it no longer had a county or a design experience. We wanted to shore that up, which meant adding something to the packages.

    However, we couldn't add something that original package holders couldn't get, thereby making the new package better than the old one. We decided it needed to be something from the EP store, so early backers could choose to get it if they wanted to. Looking at what we had and what made sense to landowners at those tiers, we chose the villa for the Magistrate package, and a manor for the Governor. It was still a little low, so we included furniture too.

    One other weird package was the Royal. There wasn't really anything we could add from the EP store, so we mostly made up the difference ($1500 + Merchandise Credit) through EP. Math time! 12090 EP (from Duke/Duchess) + 15000 EP ($1500 price increase) + 1000EP ($100 in Merchandise Credit converted to EP) = 28,090 EP. This amount is kind of interesting because of the next step.

  8. The last step was reducing the value across all the packages even more. We did this through the EP by taking the new EP values assigned to the packages and cutting them all by around 20%. (ex. Monarch had over 27,000 EP based on our valuation--which was already valued below the King/Queen package--and we cut it to 25,000 so the new package was firmly worse). Amusingly, Royal had more EP than Monarch, so we just straight dropped the Royal to 20,000 to be below Monarch, making Royal probably the least valuable package in the new store.

That's how the new packages came to be and this is why Soulbound feels confident in saying the new packages are more expensive than the original ones and mostly less valuable.

I say mostly less valuable because a special emote, a county of your own, a phoenix pet, or additional EP may not seem as valuable as a villa or manor house to some people, and I can't assign your own personal value to what's in the packages. Some people are super excited about things like naming a star, while others couldn't care less. It's impossible to take everyone's personal preferences into account, which is why we assigned monetary values to everything, slashed the values, made some adjustments for majorly undervalued packages, and then slashed everything again. It's as fair and balanced as possible, while still providing upgrade value from Kickstarter packages and not giving a big middle finger to folks just learning about the game.

Remember, while many of us think of this as being the beginning, there's still at least a year until launch. Those people who join now are also taking a big risk, and the intention of no store in history was to make the items so unattractive that people didn't want to buy them.

Those of you who backed us during Kickstarter are our angels. Your support and interest has kept us going, both financially and emotionally, and we value that higher than you can know. You've shown that you believe in us and we strive every day to deliver our best because it is what you deserve! I hope you can see that we have taken every caution to preserve your investment into Chronicles of Elyria.

Greying Out of Rewards

There has also been confusion about viewing the new packages when you already have a paid-off, original package.

In the old store, all the packages were listed in a single, easy-to-view column. This meant anyone coming to the site for the first time could easily scroll down to view the contents of each package. This made it easy for us to say things like "plus all previous rewards." Since viewers were reading from top-down, they already knew what "all previous rewards" meant.

For the sake of cleanliness, the new store uses modal dialogs to show the information in each package. The problem is, if someone wanted to know the contents of a package, they'd have to click on every...single... card. It was decided that from a user experience standpoint the best thing to do was to provide a cumulative list of all awards received by a tier. That way, you see exactly what's in the package and don't have to go clicky-clicky up the list to see what was contained in "all previous packages".

But this created a different problem. As users new to the site attempt to upgrade from one package to the next, it's not obvious whether or not they receive an additional copy of a previous award, or if the description in the higher package is just listing the items of the lower packages they already own.

We decided to solve this problem by graying out the items in a pledge package which you already own from a previous package. And this is where the confusion comes in.

The greying out of previous package rewards is based on this 12 number system. So if you have package 6, anything from package 1-6 will be greyed out when you look and packages 7-12. However, because in some cases we mapped more than one of the previous 19 to one of the 12, it'll occasionally appear as though you're no longer getting something which you'd previously gotten when you upgrade.

This is the case in the old Count/Countess package at $500 (previously package 10). If you look at the next price up at $750 (number 9 in the database now), there's no county at that level. So even though you have a county, an upgrade doesn't grey that out properly because the store considers you to have package 8 in the database and the new package 8 does not have a county.

This fails in the opposite way too sometimes, making it appear you have something you don't. We'll use the same tiers as the example. The new $500 package (number 8, Magistrate) has a villa added to it for reasons explained earlier in this post. The old $500 package (Count/Countess) does not have a villa. However, because the store considers you to be package number 8 now, it will grey out the villa if you look at the packages.

Since it's causing a lot of confusion, we will be working on an itemized or differently-mapped version of this greying-out functionality, rather than a simple, tier-number-based version for the future. Until we get that functionality in, the general idea you can use is that if you think you had it, you did. If it's something new (such as a villa or additional EP), you don't.

Side-grading

I've seen several people ask about side-grading. It's almost entirely people who see the villa or manor as a greater reward than a county or other rewards in the $500-$1000 range of packages. This is a bad idea for the valuation reasons I outlined earlier. Also, as already discussed in this blog post, titles will be able to be exchanged for EP. We don't have that title exchange in place yet, any more than anyone actually has a villa, but it will work out fairly when it comes time so please don't worry.

The thing to remember is we offered people the opportunity to trade their titles for EP because some people wanted some of the stuff at the higher tiers, such as the DE's, but not everything - such as the titles. The EP trade-in allowed people to exchange their unwanted title for extra EP but in general, if someone just wanted more EP and didn't want any of the items in the higher tiers, it was and remains more cost-effective to skip the tier upgrade and just buy extra EP.

This is especially apparent in what was the $500 Count tier. While there's an amount of EP we can award people in exchange for the Count title that would make the tier roughly equal monetarily speaking, there really isn't any EP amount we could award people that would be equitable to the Count title itself.

Partially that's because the Count title is what you make of it and partially that's because of the in-game experience of being a Count. Counts have control (and are responsible for) of all of the land of their County. But even more importantly, being a Count makes you a pivotal character in the story. No EP can really compare to that.

So to the question "is the new $500 Magistrate package more valuable than the previous $500 Count tier?" Definitely not! It only contains what was in the $350 tier before. But is the new Magistrate tier equitable to the old $500 tier if a player was planning to take the Count title and trade it in for EP anyways? That's a closer call. The real value of tiers that come with titles are the titles themselves. Without them, the tiers are less valuable, and there's not a great way to balance that.

I hope that helps to shed light on the concerns and speculations that have arisen. As always, we want to be fair to our backers and transparent with the community. I'm sure there are some other questions floating around so we will try to answer those as well.

Pledged to Your Continued Adventures in Life, Both Actual and Fantasy,

Vye

Discuss

Log in to post
bwoodfield - 1 month ago

So I read through the majority of this thread and I still feel that as a Kickstarter pledge we're getting a bit shafted. I purchased the $60 Patron package through Kickstarter, which is now equivalent of a $20 Pioneer Package, and on the store for $50 someone can get the Founder package and double the amount of rewards that I am getting. Yes the KS rewards get some special emotes and chat rooms.. woohooo.. As someone who came in early and supported when they needed the money I think they would be upgrading our reward packages instead of downgrading them. In terms of capital it doesn't cost Soulbound anything. A line in the database that indicates that someone gets a horse or a pack. I can see when you start getting into the EP and Merch credit that things get far more complicated, but for us "lower tier" supporters it kind of hurts.

Bianca_Leijon - 1 month ago

The is all very exciting, and seemingly necessary

Is there any way for the Devs, or someone, to remind the original backers what they're entitled to?

I was an Astronomer, now I'm a magistrate, but I'm not entitled to what the magistrates receive. Or am I? In the very least, I'd like to be reminded of what I'm actually receiving when it comes time to play. Unfortunately, I'm one of those followers who only check on the updates every so often. I'm certain others would like reminders, as well :)

Thank you to anyone willing to help!

Bianca_Leijon - 1 month ago
@Bianca_Leijon:

Never mind! I figured it out :)

Though I'm sure it would still be nice to others if this was mentioned somewhere on their account. Like, for example, a link to the wiki spreadsheet page accessible where it tells you which package you've purchased

http://chroniclesofelyria.gamepedia.com/Pledge_Packages

jennifer - 1 month ago

Forum Tiers are now all completely borked and meaningless with regards to your ACTUAL tier. Mine just randomly switched from 5 to 8. For no reason /shrug

mystichaze - 1 month ago
@jennifer:

Posted By jennifer at 7:08 PM - Thu Mar 30 2017

Forum Tiers are now all completely borked and meaningless with regards to your ACTUAL tier. Mine just randomly switched from 5 to 8. For no reason /shrug

There is a reason, it is posted here.

jennifer - 1 month ago
@mystichaze:

Posted By mystichaze at 10:21 PM - Thu Mar 30 2017

Posted By jennifer at 7:08 PM - Thu Mar 30 2017

Forum Tiers are now all completely borked and meaningless with regards to your ACTUAL tier. Mine just randomly switched from 5 to 8. For no reason /shrug

There is a reason, it is posted here.

lol, posted in general instead of news/announcement.... ok /smh Why did I go looking there for a post about it, silly me.

The whole system is beyond crazy disorganized. They realllllly need to figure something out.

mystichaze - 1 month ago
@jennifer:

Posted By jennifer at 7:37 PM - Thu Mar 30 2017

Posted By mystichaze at 10:21 PM - Thu Mar 30 2017

Posted By jennifer at 7:08 PM - Thu Mar 30 2017

Forum Tiers are now all completely borked and meaningless with regards to your ACTUAL tier. Mine just randomly switched from 5 to 8. For no reason /shrug

There is a reason, it is posted here.

lol, posted in general instead of news/announcement.... ok /smh Why did I go looking there for a post about it, silly me.

The whole system is beyond crazy disorganized. They realllllly need to figure something out.

They are working on it along with a million other things. Put yourself in their shoes. I don't believe the team expected the game to become as popular as it has in such a short period. As a result, there are an awful lot of demands put on a small team, in which they try to accommodate. In light of that, I personally think they are doing a fantastic job; we just need to be a little more patient. And have faith that they will get things more organized in time. :)

VVestern - 2 months ago

No date as of yet! This development timeline shows a rough idea what the dev team is working on! We are currently awaiting the prologue/domain & settlement selection.

DrDrizztMD - 2 months ago

So I've been looking around on the site is there a date fore the Alpha/Beta?

Resolute - 2 months ago

okay, so nothing at all to do with your actual kickstarter pledge then? i think that's what's been so confusing here....

Rovert - 2 months ago
@Resolute:

Posted By Resolute at 6:26 PM - Thu Mar 23 2017

okay, so nothing at all to do with your actual kickstarter pledge then? i think that's what's been so confusing here....

Youre pledge or kickstarter package will give you a chunk of influence, but then anything else you purchase also gives you influence. In my case its ep, carriage for 2 and tokens.

Resolute - 2 months ago

So, I'm still a little confused here. I went in on this game when it's kickstarter was first initiated. If I login to kickstarter, I can see my pledge now equates to $150 Merchant -- so shouldn't I be showing as Tier 5 instead of Tier 3 when I post? According to the matrix above "Merchant" should be Tier 5? Or is you KS pledge have nothing at all to do with your forum tier on this website?

Rovert - 2 months ago
@Resolute:

Posted By Resolute at 6:10 PM - Thu Mar 23 2017

So, I'm still a little confused here. I went in on this game when it's kickstarter was first initiated. If I login to kickstarter, I can see my pledge now equates to $150 Merchant -- so shouldn't I be showing as Tier 5 instead of Tier 3 when I post? According to the matrix above "Merchant" should be Tier 5? Or is you KS pledge have nothing at all to do with your forum tier on this website?

Tier relates to influence as i am definitely not a count or duke, just a mayor.

Woogawoman - 2 months ago

FWIW, I created a Pledge Packages page on the wiki to help clarify things until they get the store details worked out.

Disclaimer: I don't work for SBS, so any errors on that page are my own.

Woogawoman - 2 months ago

The 12 new "tiers" in the OP map to the 12 packages currently available in the store. However, it's clear that the Tier designations on user profiles do NOT match that structure. So we have two kinds of "tiers" on the site at the moment:

  • The forum ones that are based on how much $$ you've spent but appear to have fewer overall tiers than either a) original KS packages or b) new packages.
  • The new package levels, noted above.

I believe this post may be the only place the store packages are called "tiers," so perhaps we can come up with a different name for that to avoid confusion (same way we eventually cleaned up the IP/EP/influence confusion).

For reference, my understanding of the mapping, based on pledge package names rather than $$ spent.

  1. Elyrian (KS) -> Elyrian
  2. Adventurer, Patron -> Pioneer
  3. Beastmaster, Founder (KS) -> Founder
  4. Bloodline (KS) -> Bloodline
  5. Merchant -> Settler
  6. Ursaphant Rider -> Proprietor
  7. Baron/Baroness -> Mayor
  8. Astronomer -> Magistrate
  9. Count/Countess -> Governor
  10. Artisan, Brewmaster -> Courtier
  11. Weapon Master, Celebrity, Artificer, Duke/Duchess -> Royal
  12. Chimera, King/Queen-> Monarch

Thus, although Count/Countess package may be "tier 5" on the forum, it is "level 9" on the packages mapping.

jennifer - 2 months ago
@Woogawoman:

Posted By Wooga at 12:55 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

The 12 new "tiers" in the OP map to the 12 packages currently available in the store. However, it's clear that the Tier designations on user profiles do NOT match that structure. So we have two kinds of "tiers" on the site at the moment:

  • The forum ones that are based on how much $$ you've spent but appear to have fewer overall tiers than either a) original KS packages or b) new packages.
  • The new package levels, noted above.

I believe this post may be the only place the store packages are called "tiers," so perhaps we can come up with a different name for that to avoid confusion (same way we eventually cleaned up the IP/EP/influence confusion).

For reference, my understanding of the mapping, based on pledge package names rather than $$ spent.

  1. Elyrian (KS) -> Elyrian
  2. Adventurer, Patron -> Pioneer
  3. Beastmaster, Founder (KS) -> Founder
  4. Bloodline (KS) -> Bloodline
  5. Merchant -> Settler
  6. Ursaphant Rider -> Proprietor
  7. Baron/Baroness -> Mayor
  8. Astronomer -> Magistrate
  9. Count/Countess -> Governor
  10. Artisan, Brewmaster -> Courtier
  11. Weapon Master, Celebrity, Artificer, Duke/Duchess -> Royal
  12. Chimera, King/Queen-> Monarch

Thus, although Count/Countess package may be "tier 5" on the forum, it is "level 9" on the packages mapping.

Ahh, thanks, finally clarity and sense.

Also, what an absolute gobsmacking mess. I highly recommend you figure something out to rectify this.

There are loads of people who don't spend every waking minute following every single solitary change and word that drops from the devs who will wonder what the ever-lovin hell is going on.

There will also be loads of people who never login and never notice so never get confused (that would be most people).

Then you get the pedantic jerks that we've seen here.

THEN, finally, we get someone like you, Wooga, to actually explain why there is such a mess.

Also, fwiw, the store is a total absolute mess. Looks like I didn't even spend $500 to get a county, nothing is greyed out past Magistrate (I understand why, but I don't care, it is sloppy) and it looks like I don't even HAVE a county in the store. Yikes. This really ought to be taken care of. I'm seriously tentative to spend a dime more until it gets sorted.

Barghest - 2 months ago

Sorry I was at work and had to drive home, I'll explain is as thoroughly as I can now:

So what you're seeing in the OP is no way related to our forum tiers, they just happen to both be called tiers.

What the OP is stating is that each of the 19 Kickstarter pledge levels has now been converted into a smaller selection of webstore pledge levels.

The 'tier' we have next to our names is simply a forum title that changes depending on your influence, they're not tied to a pledge package etc. So someone who backed KS count ($500) has Tier 5, as the 'Tier 5' forum title used to be called 'Count', but like I mentioned, someone could have backed Baron ($250) and then dropped $250 extra on EP and their forum title would incorrectly display as 'Count', so the devs changed the titles so simply say 'Tier x' depending on how much you've spent.

So 'Tier 5' forum title used to be called 'Count' before they changed it.

Basically completely disregard the OP, it's not talking about our forum title 'tiers', it's just using the word 'tiers' to describe the different backer levels available then and now.

Kat5Khaos - 2 months ago

I think my favorite part about this is you telling everyone they're the wrong tier like no one knows what's going on lol The system still has to go through an update. Until then Tier 5 is correct because I am a COUNTESS and spent $500 through kickstarter.

If you truly believe you're being wronged then go through support and let someone from SBS waste time on explaining to you detail by detail on why it is what it is at the moment.

K bye.

jennifer - 2 months ago

This system is completely broken :/ I'm a Countess. I should be Tier 9? according to this. I'm somehow stuck at Tier 5 since forever -- even though it shows my Kickstarter status on my profile. What gives??

Barghest - 2 months ago
@jennifer:

Posted By jennifer at 2:13 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

This system is completely broken :/ I'm a Countess. I should be Tier 9? according to this. I'm somehow stuck at Tier 5 since forever -- even though it shows my Kickstarter status on my profile. What gives??

Count is Tier 5, it's displaying correctly.

jennifer - 2 months ago
@Barghest:

Posted By Barghest at 10:15 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:13 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

This system is completely broken :/ I'm a Countess. I should be Tier 9? according to this. I'm somehow stuck at Tier 5 since forever -- even though it shows my Kickstarter status on my profile. What gives??

Count is Tier 5, it's displaying correctly.

Count is not - according to their list, its Tier 9.

Count is not $175............

Barghest - 2 months ago
@jennifer:

Posted By jennifer at 2:17 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:15 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:13 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

This system is completely broken :/ I'm a Countess. I should be Tier 9? according to this. I'm somehow stuck at Tier 5 since forever -- even though it shows my Kickstarter status on my profile. What gives??

Count is Tier 5, it's displaying correctly.

Count is not - according to their list, its Tier 9.

Count is not $175............

The new tiers aren't out yet, 12 is still the highest, until the new tiers are introduced which is likely V3 of the website: Tier 5 is correct.

jennifer - 2 months ago
@Barghest:

Posted By Barghest at 10:30 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:17 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:15 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:13 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

This system is completely broken :/ I'm a Countess. I should be Tier 9? according to this. I'm somehow stuck at Tier 5 since forever -- even though it shows my Kickstarter status on my profile. What gives??

Count is Tier 5, it's displaying correctly.

Count is not - according to their list, its Tier 9.

Count is not $175............

The new tiers aren't out yet, 12 is still the highest, until the new tiers are introduced which is likely V3 of the website: Tier 5 is correct.

I'm not sure you're reading that post correctly?? The old Tier for King was 19 - now it's 12.

According to the OP, my Tier has never been correct.

I'm thinking you're just trolling me at this point.

Barghest - 2 months ago
@jennifer:

Posted By jennifer at 3:24 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:30 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:17 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:15 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:13 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

This system is completely broken :/ I'm a Countess. I should be Tier 9? according to this. I'm somehow stuck at Tier 5 since forever -- even though it shows my Kickstarter status on my profile. What gives??

Count is Tier 5, it's displaying correctly.

Count is not - according to their list, its Tier 9.

Count is not $175............

The new tiers aren't out yet, 12 is still the highest, until the new tiers are introduced which is likely V3 of the website: Tier 5 is correct.

I'm not sure you're reading that post correctly?? The old Tier for King was 19 - now it's 12.

According to the OP, my Tier has never been correct.

I'm thinking you're just trolling me at this point.

I'm a moderator, trust me I'm not trolling you.

It's referring to tiers as the Kickstarter tiers, as in there were 19 levels of pledge you could do on KS. When we could link our accounts on here we had actual titles at first, I was 'Weapon Master' for example. However the system didn't work well, as a Count who bought a bunch of EP would be listed as an artisan for example.

So instead the devs switched to 'tiers', and that's how it's been since. The tiers don't actually reflect which tier you've bought (although its planned to be so in future), your current tier is just based on what you've spent.

Currently, Tier 5 is correct for Count, and my tier 7 is correct for Weapon Master, tier 12 being King etc etc.

I'm on mobile atm so I don't have the list to show you how much IP you need for each tier.

jennifer - 2 months ago
@Barghest:

Posted By Barghest at 11:57 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 3:24 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:30 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:17 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:15 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:13 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

This system is completely broken :/ I'm a Countess. I should be Tier 9? according to this. I'm somehow stuck at Tier 5 since forever -- even though it shows my Kickstarter status on my profile. What gives??

Count is Tier 5, it's displaying correctly.

Count is not - according to their list, its Tier 9.

Count is not $175............

The new tiers aren't out yet, 12 is still the highest, until the new tiers are introduced which is likely V3 of the website: Tier 5 is correct.

I'm not sure you're reading that post correctly?? The old Tier for King was 19 - now it's 12.

According to the OP, my Tier has never been correct.

I'm thinking you're just trolling me at this point.

I'm a moderator, trust me I'm not trolling you.

It's referring to tiers as the Kickstarter tiers, as in there were 19 levels of pledge you could do on KS. When we could link our accounts on here we had actual titles at first, I was 'Weapon Master' for example. However the system didn't work well, as a Count who bought a bunch of EP would be listed as an artisan for example.

So instead the devs switched to 'tiers', and that's how it's been since. The tiers don't actually reflect which tier you've bought (although its planned to be so in future), your current tier is just based on what you've spent.

Currently, Tier 5 is correct for Count, and my tier 7 is correct for Weapon Master, tier 12 being King etc etc.

I'm on mobile atm so I don't have the list to show you how much IP you need for each tier.

Except, the list in the OP states EXACTLY what each one is.

A count is $500 (from Kickstarter) and that was Tier 11 and is now tier 9.

I'm really sorry dude but Tier 5 ($100-175) is wrong and is NOT a Count title.

Malais - 2 months ago
@jennifer:

Posted By jennifer at 11:10 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 11:57 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 3:24 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:30 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:17 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:15 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:13 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

This system is completely broken :/ I'm a Countess. I should be Tier 9? according to this. I'm somehow stuck at Tier 5 since forever -- even though it shows my Kickstarter status on my profile. What gives??

Count is Tier 5, it's displaying correctly.

Count is not - according to their list, its Tier 9.

Count is not $175............

The new tiers aren't out yet, 12 is still the highest, until the new tiers are introduced which is likely V3 of the website: Tier 5 is correct.

I'm not sure you're reading that post correctly?? The old Tier for King was 19 - now it's 12.

According to the OP, my Tier has never been correct.

I'm thinking you're just trolling me at this point.

I'm a moderator, trust me I'm not trolling you.

It's referring to tiers as the Kickstarter tiers, as in there were 19 levels of pledge you could do on KS. When we could link our accounts on here we had actual titles at first, I was 'Weapon Master' for example. However the system didn't work well, as a Count who bought a bunch of EP would be listed as an artisan for example.

So instead the devs switched to 'tiers', and that's how it's been since. The tiers don't actually reflect which tier you've bought (although its planned to be so in future), your current tier is just based on what you've spent.

Currently, Tier 5 is correct for Count, and my tier 7 is correct for Weapon Master, tier 12 being King etc etc.

I'm on mobile atm so I don't have the list to show you how much IP you need for each tier.

Except, the list in the OP states EXACTLY what each one is.

A count is $500 (from Kickstarter) and that was Tier 11 and is now tier 9.

I'm really sorry dude but Tier 5 ($100-175) is wrong and is NOT a Count title.

Just a quick FYI. Tier 5 is correct for a KS count. Since that is what I am and what I have.

jennifer - 2 months ago
@Malais:

Posted By Malais at 12:27 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 11:10 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 11:57 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 3:24 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:30 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:17 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By Barghest at 10:15 AM - Tue Mar 21 2017

Posted By jennifer at 2:13 PM - Tue Mar 21 2017

This system is completely broken :/ I'm a Countess. I should be Tier 9? according to this. I'm somehow stuck at Tier 5 since forever -- even though it shows my Kickstarter status on my profile. What gives??

Count is Tier 5, it's displaying correctly.

Count is not - according to their list, its Tier 9.

Count is not $175............

The new tiers aren't out yet, 12 is still the highest, until the new tiers are introduced which is likely V3 of the website: Tier 5 is correct.

I'm not sure you're reading that post correctly?? The old Tier for King was 19 - now it's 12.

According to the OP, my Tier has never been correct.

I'm thinking you're just trolling me at this point.

I'm a moderator, trust me I'm not trolling you.

It's referring to tiers as the Kickstarter tiers, as in there were 19 levels of pledge you could do on KS. When we could link our accounts on here we had actual titles at first, I was 'Weapon Master' for example. However the system didn't work well, as a Count who bought a bunch of EP would be listed as an artisan for example.

So instead the devs switched to 'tiers', and that's how it's been since. The tiers don't actually reflect which tier you've bought (although its planned to be so in future), your current tier is just based on what you've spent.

Currently, Tier 5 is correct for Count, and my tier 7 is correct for Weapon Master, tier 12 being King etc etc.

I'm on mobile atm so I don't have the list to show you how much IP you need for each tier.


Except, the list in the OP states EXACTLY what each one is.


A count is $500 (from Kickstarter) and that was Tier 11 and is now tier 9.


I'm really sorry dude but Tier 5 ($100-175) is wrong and is NOT a Count title.

Just a quick FYI. Tier 5 is correct for a KS count. Since that is what I am and what I have.

Just because that is what you have -- that doesn't mean it's correct.

Look at the OP. The OP states that tier 5 spent $175. How can you correlate that Tier 5 is Count when Duke is 11? What's all the Tiers in between?

Why is Tier 5 only 175 on the OP if we spent $500? According to the OP, we should be at Tier 9.

PeZzy - 2 months ago

So I bought an early bird package during KS which was valued at $200, but these new packages have downgraded me to the $175 tier, losing the mount and alpha access. I lost $50 of value in the process.

Ruthgar - 2 months ago
@PeZzy:

Pezzy, you still have your original package and everything it had. However if you try to upgrade now, you now have to upgrade to the new package tiers, unless you had an older type package still on the layaway plan.

DevonKing - 3 months ago

I believe This was explained well and a fair distribution system is in play involving, shrinking the tier after the kick starter phase ended , and the evolution of the game/EP/titles valuations ensue.

It is an exciting time...

Baron Devon King

"Growth Through Change"

Morbis - 4 months ago

It does. The developers agree, in loose terms, with that sentiment. It's in https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/16033/The-Adventure-of-a-Lifetime down near the bottom.

MisterTuggles - 4 months ago

In my opinion, I think that people who purchased packages prior to the store change should be able to continue along that path instead of heading along the new tiers in the store.

As a Count tier backer in the KS campaign there is very little reason for me to progress at this point. Upgrading to my next available tier (Governor) for 250$ nets me a higher tier furnished house, a few more sparks, and a few more EP. Really no incentive for me to upgrade any more :-/

MisterTuggles - 4 months ago
@MisterTuggles:

I guess my biggest issue with all of this is the new count package, while higher priced, comes with a furnished heavy manor. Now, from my point of view, if it was deemed that a Count/Countess should have a manor in the new package why does the old package from Kickstarter not also have a manor? Boo hiss I say, boo hiss.

HolyAvengerOne - 4 months ago

Woah, my head hurt after reading all that ;) Thanks for the update!

RoamingReaper - 5 months ago

So buy one of the packages and I am able to play a beta or something?

Oracle - 4 months ago
@RoamingReaper:

Posted By RoamingReaper at 05:20 AM - Tue Jan 03 2017

So buy one of the packages and I am able to play a beta or something?

Yes. If you refer to the SHOP https://chroniclesofelyria.com/shop here, you'll see things like "Alpha 1" or "Beta 2" above the various pledge options.

This indicates how early on you can get into the testing. We don't have dates yet, but obviously the earlier the associated test phase, the earlier you'll get a hands on.

Note: If you haven't considered this yet, Alpha does not mean finished product. The content of a game in the Alpha test phase will most certainly not reflect the finished product. Much may be subject to change, including graphics, game play, balancing and much more. These early test phases are intended to test the engine, bits of the basic mechanics and gain some initial feedback from the user base.

Check it out ;)

Kayadine - 5 months ago

Honestly it only makes sense that if the community feels that a Villa has more value, then it likely has more value. It is the consumer that states what is of highest value, not the merchant.

The reason that a Villa is of such high value to consumers is because a place of residence in CoE means that you are an integrated part of a community that you plug yourself in to. Without a residence you are little more than a vagabond. This means that everyone with EP will be putting a very high priority on a residence with their EP that they earned. This means that the vast majority of EP will go directly into this item.

With the new tiers providing a Villa, it frees their EP to be spent on other items, giving them the opportunity to start off with a setup that gives them an advantage in their crafting/gathering/defense, ect...

Essentially EP, to a consumer, equals time. Villa = Time and far more prestige than a plaque or a forum badge.

Look at it like this: If you start out with a villa you can use your EP to grab all the little things you want from the EP store, so that at launch you can spend your time adventuring, since you already likely purchased 80-90% of what you needed to set up your business and get on the ground running.

If you don't have a villa at launch you have to first blow all your EP on a residence, then you have to farm like crazy, wait for people to skill up to the point that they can craft whatever you want, and then go through the process of finding a network of people who can craft the items that you desire. (This may also cause you to have to skill up in ways that you were not necessarily wishing to.) In the meantime, you have a, likely, subpar residence with little to no furnishings. lol

THAT is why people are putting such a high value on the Villa item. it is about time and a useful item of prestige.

AronDarkholm - 5 months ago

Ya the more we move forward the more I realize there are some details missing that I should have concerned before backing this. I mean it was clearly stated at multiple points that those that back at a tier with title would be getting a place to call home. Only reason I went above Bloodline. An in all honesty there is a lot lacking in the descriptions of these packages, running as far back as from the kickstarter. But the most recent yearly blog post of looking back and what not pretty much states that they were in a rush. Still are it seems. Take time and make sure that the packages make sense to your consumer, not just your self.

Just another backer, seemingly losing interest.

Aurra Sing - 5 months ago

I hope they will make it possibilities to Upgrade from Astronomer to Magistrate package. After all vye said that they are the same and so why Not let someone spend 150$ to Upgrade.

RAFAELI - 5 months ago

So will all the pledges be d/c starting Jan 1? Or will I still be able to layaway after the 1st??

FlawedOne - 5 months ago
@RAFAELI:

Posted By RAFAELI at 04:54 AM - Sat Dec 31 2016

So will all the pledges be d/c starting Jan 1? Or will I still be able to layaway after the 1st??

For the new Tiers, you can start the layaway even after jan 1. For the old tiers, those aren't available now, unless you put them on layaway before the 27th.

More in-depth info: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/news/15327/Store-Updating-on-December-27th

Kat5Khaos - 5 months ago

If anyone doesn't want to play anymore please let me have your EP, k thanks :D

ZipYip - 4 months ago
@Kat5Khaos:

Are you going to role-playing a beggar in game as well?

Maric - 5 months ago

So Crowfall has a fantastic feature under Account where everything that is included in your pledge and everything you have bought since is line item detailed to the nth degree.

As a Kickstarter Artisan Backer, I'd love to see this same functionality for CoE. Pretty please.

I'm assuming the $200 Merchandise Credit is the $200 I added above my Kickstarter package? Or is this a reward of some sort based on my Tier and other factors?

thank you!

Seaspite - 4 months ago
@Maric:

The folks developing Crowfall really do a nice job communicating with their backers

morbidar - 5 months ago

Can we stop bashing SBS and let them do their job??! If you bought a KS before a store update then you paid less $$$ ,that's a fact. If you want to wait and see what the final packages will be at launch and pay retail, then by all means wait to buy it. Have some respect and give a thank you to the SBS team for what they have accomplished thus far.

pure_crimsun - 5 months ago
@morbidar:

Posted By morbidar at 6:39 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Can we stop bashing SBS and let them do their job??! If you bought a KS before a store update then you paid less $$$ ,that's a fact. If you want to wait and see what the final packages will be at launch and pay retail, then by all means wait to buy it. Have some respect and give a thank you to the SBS team for what they have accomplished thus far.

Astronomer gets 940 EP + 600 EP (if you choose to spend your credit on that) which is 1540 EP total. This tier costs $350. so 350/1540= $0.22 per EP point.

Magistrate gets 2000 EP plus the Villa which when they had it up cost over 2000 EP but for the sake of not remembering the exact amount lets call it 2000. So 2000+2000=4000 for $500. 500/4000= $0.12 per EP point. That's a pretty big difference. Plus you get 6 sparks of life instead of 5.

Even with the exclusive stuff the new tier is a better deal. You are actually paid less for more. The only thing you don't get are these.

-Forum border - Adventurer, Founder, Merchant, & Baron -Exclusive, backer, in-game text-based emote, salute, and dance -$50 Merchandise Credit for the store

Yes you have the option to have the phoenix as a pet but that just became something that you could get this month. Right now this looks like they said one thing and did another.

Caspian or Vye or some one please prove me wrong put the numbers that you came up with out or something but right now I know a lot of people are not happy.

Kayadine - 5 months ago
@pure_crimsun:

This

pure_crimsun - 5 months ago
@morbidar:

Since it's causing a lot of confusion, we will be working on an itemized or differently-mapped version of this greying-out functionality, rather than a simple, tier-number-based version for the future. Until we get that functionality in, the general idea you can use is that if you think you had it, you did. If it's something new (such as a villa or additional EP), you don't. -Vye

Okay I am just going to let them do their thing because they know its confusing and hopefully they fix it soon so we know exactly how this will all work.

Oceanos - 5 months ago

~ Issue Resolved ~

Ortherion - 5 months ago
@Oceanos:

Posted By Oceanos at 5:51 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

You took out the one thing I wanted, the phoenix pet, thanks for being a crappy game company from the very beginning.

@Oceanos It was posted and discussed many times that the Kickstarter pet Phoenix was not going to be included in the new tiers. You my friend had fair warning that you needed to buy before the new store went live if you wanted any of the Kickstarter perks.

@Xyberviri At first I was a bit scared of story points (SP) myself as I have a lot to lose being a Duke. But then reading the idea and design concept behind it, I have come to see that it is needed. If you are Nobility and lock yourself away into your Castle and never take any risks, never advance the story. Never lead your troops into battle. Then when you die you will not have SP for your new soul to Inherit your title.

It is also a game mechanic of removing a Noble that has quite the game or doesn't play often enough for the level of responsibility and role they have in the game. If you are going to play a King or Queen you just can't leave the game for weeks at a time and leave your Kingdom in chaos with no leadership. The same for a Duchy, County or Barony/Mayor.

Sorry you have regret on your pledge. I think over time you will be very happy that you did pledge and support this game.

FlawedOne - 5 months ago
@Oceanos:

Posted By Oceanos at 02:51 AM - Sat Dec 31 2016

You took out the one thing I wanted, the phoenix pet, thanks for being a crappy game company from the very beginning.

It was VERY clear since the Kickstarter, that the Phoenix pet is an exclusive option for early backers. The after-kickstarter store opened in early October,

Sept. 29: (https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/12300/Whats-in-store-for-you)

then the original packages got extended until November,

Oct. 25: (https://chroniclesofelyria.com/news/13280/Tier-Price-Extension)

then they provided a layaway option

Oct. 29: (https://chroniclesofelyria.com/news/13388/Layaway-Now-Available)

then they told us about the layaway timeframes

Nov. 3: (https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/13621/Merriment-in-Increments)

then they told us exactly when the store gets updated

Dec. 21: (https://chroniclesofelyria.com/news/15327/Store-Updating-on-December-27th) <- Fun facts, Vye in the comment section clearly stated that the Phoenix pet will be taken out from these tiers, even though the Kickstarter page was pretty clear about it being an early-backer only option in the first place.

So all in all, if you didn't get to read the front page of the website since October, then i feel sorry for you. It was indeed abundantly clear that the Phoenix pet is not going to be available forever. This isn't about them being crappy game company, you should read the news about early access games you're interested in.

Maric - 5 months ago
@Oceanos:

You must not have been paying attention when it was stated multiple times if you're going to pledge, pledge now, use lawaway, etc. Soulbound has been very clear about the expiration of packages and contents changing.

Shady Clown - 5 months ago
@Oceanos:

Posted By Oceanos at 8:51 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

You took out the one thing I wanted, the phoenix pet, thanks for being a crappy game company from the very beginning.

Mm? Not sure if I'm misunderstanding something, but you will still be able to get a Phoenix pet as long as you pledged before December 28/29 and was at least beastmaster or above.

NekoVeil - 5 months ago

We want physical items!

Maric - 5 months ago
@NekoVeil:

Agree. I'd love to buy one of the shirts they give out at PAX.

OrangeBoy - 5 months ago

and another thing, can i have a kingdom for free?

pure_crimsun - 5 months ago

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/15555/so-if-i-up-my-pledge-to-governor#post163226

"See Vye's recent post. You never lose stuff in your current pledge package. You'd gain the benefits of the new Pledge Package 8 that was not in 7. You'd get the naming of the historical location and headstone, a Manor, more sparks of life, and more EP." -Caspian

So to me this just seems wonky and something not right. The SBS team said that the new tiers wouldn't be better. Obviously some are though which doesn't make sense to me and kind of disappoints me. They really need to clarify some things and they really need to take a closer look at what they put out. If they really want to change the face of MMO's. Either a large group of us aren't understanding or they have made a mistake. Either way we need to get some facts straight.

Also vye's post didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. Example "This fails in the opposite way too sometimes, making it appear you have something you don't. We'll use the same tiers as the example. The new $500 package (number 8, Magistrate) has a villa added to it for reasons explained earlier in this post. The old $500 package (Count/Countess) does not have a villa. However, because the store considers you to be package number 8 now, it will grey out the villa if you look at the packages." -Vye

Magistrate is not the equivalent tier to count. Astronomer would be the equivalent tier. Which if you compare the two astronomer is a horrible deal in comparison. Maybe it's just me but again I feel like something is off here.

Ironside - 5 months ago

Thanks for the clarification and the hard work. Aren't you supposed to be on vacation!? Have some well earned wine on the backers! :-)

Bluemaze - 5 months ago

Vye, You stated "This is the case in the old Count/Countess package at $500 (previously package 10)."

Did you mean to say package 11 ?

If that is true, then original KS Count package should now show as being a Governor, but I am only showing as a Magistrate....

Rhaegys - 5 months ago

Unless you choose to start as a ward, you will be born in an NPC family. That family will have a house and you will live there. But you won't inherit it unless you earn enough favor with your parents. This comes from the Kingdom & Land Management DJ

While it's possible to inherit land from yourself or from others, when the game first launches you'll likely be children of NPC families. In this case, you won’t inherit the land of your NPC parents unless you reach a certain amount of Favor with them. Otherwise, they'll will the land back to the Count. We did that because we didn't want the first generation of players to automatically get all the NPC land. They should still have to work for it. Yep, we think of these things. To inherit land from your NPC parents you’ll need to complete a certain number of tasks for them, make improvements to the land, etc. If you ask them, they’ll let you know whether you’re in the will or not.

So in other words, you will have a house but it is not guaranteed that you will inherit it. If your parents die before you earn that favor then you will be basically homeless...

guildsbounty - 5 months ago
@Rhaegys:

Posted By Rhaegys at 12:01 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Unless you choose to start as a ward, you will be born in an NPC family. That family will have a house and you will live there. But you won't inherit it unless you earn enough favor with your parents. This comes from the Kingdom & Land Management DJ

While it's possible to inherit land from yourself or from others, when the game first launches you'll likely be children of NPC families. In this case, you won’t inherit the land of your NPC parents unless you reach a certain amount of Favor with them. Otherwise, they'll will the land back to the Count. We did that because we didn't want the first generation of players to automatically get all the NPC land. They should still have to work for it. Yep, we think of these things. To inherit land from your NPC parents you’ll need to complete a certain number of tasks for them, make improvements to the land, etc. If you ask them, they’ll let you know whether you’re in the will or not.

So in other words, you will have a house but it is not guaranteed that you will inherit it. If your parents die before you earn that favor then you will be basically homeless...

Yes, that is correct. However, rulers start as NTCs...not children born into an NPC family. Because they are already Mayors and Barons and Counts and Dukes and Kings when the game launches. You don't start the game as the heir apparent, you start the game as the ruler. Which means you are a Non-Traditional-Character. You're an adult. You don't live in your parent's house anymore.

That's where my and Kraysus' question comes from. A ruler's character is an NTC who inherited their position from their forebearers...so it would make sense that they automatically inherited the home that the prior ruler of their town/city/capital ruled from. I mean....it really wouldn't make sense for the King to not live in the King's Estate in the capital of the Kingdom.

And, to be clear...I'm seeking clarification here, not complaining about changes made. I would just like to know what rulers actually start the game with as that would be very helpful in planning out EP expenditure for the future. And because the idea of the hobo Duke is...well...weird.

Malais - 5 months ago
@guildsbounty:

Posted By guildsbounty at 11:19 AM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Posted By Rhaegys at 12:01 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Unless you choose to start as a ward, you will be born in an NPC family. That family will have a house and you will live there. But you won't inherit it unless you earn enough favor with your parents. This comes from the Kingdom & Land Management DJ

While it's possible to inherit land from yourself or from others, when the game first launches you'll likely be children of NPC families. In this case, you won’t inherit the land of your NPC parents unless you reach a certain amount of Favor with them. Otherwise, they'll will the land back to the Count. We did that because we didn't want the first generation of players to automatically get all the NPC land. They should still have to work for it. Yep, we think of these things. To inherit land from your NPC parents you’ll need to complete a certain number of tasks for them, make improvements to the land, etc. If you ask them, they’ll let you know whether you’re in the will or not.

So in other words, you will have a house but it is not guaranteed that you will inherit it. If your parents die before you earn that favor then you will be basically homeless...

Yes, that is correct. However, rulers start as NTCs...not children born into an NPC family. Because they are already Mayors and Barons and Counts and Dukes and Kings when the game launches. You don't start the game as the heir apparent, you start the game as the ruler. Which means you are a Non-Traditional-Character. You're an adult. You don't live in your parent's house anymore.

That's where my and Kraysus' question comes from. A ruler's character is an NTC who inherited their position from their forebearers...so it would make sense that they automatically inherited the home that the prior ruler of their town/city/capital ruled from. I mean....it really wouldn't make sense for the King to not live in the King's Estate in the capital of the Kingdom.

And, to be clear...I'm seeking clarification here, not complaining about changes made. I would just like to know what rulers actually start the game with as that would be very helpful in planning out EP expenditure for the future. And because the idea of the hobo Duke is...well...weird.

Granted I'm not SBS but in the AMA they mentioned this.

Nobles and Aristocrats, upon entering the Exposition, can make their way to their settlement and use a special currency to "buy" the land under their settlement. It's completely separate from their IP which they can use for other things

So what you actually own is likely based on your rank and what is available in your town.

If that quote is still accurate you could end up with the best house in town, or a shack and a really nice smithy.

Kraysus - 5 months ago

To add to Guildsbounty's comment, specifically, the way we thought it worked was that all the nobility, most of the aristocracy, and even some gentry would be able to sort of step into existing dwellings if they took over a place that had them. For example, the count chooses the county, then has first pick of the settlement, and thus first pick at a place to live there) The other mayors would, if there's a settlement existing to take over, they could also pick a dwelling there, and then the Gentry may also be able to take one over.

However, saying that having a house is a thing to be earned exclusively via the package or by EP, significantly reduces a lot of value. This means that old pledged counts can only afford to live in a wooden unfurnished villa, or a stone furnished house.

This leads into the major issue that I have with that, is as a Count, (pledged Baron with $150 remaining on the count layaway) I don't want to have to spend my EP on a house. I want and even need a house, but I'd rather spend my money on buildings for the settlement to make start a college in my settlement. Making us spend our EP on a place to live isn't conducive to having EP go towards developing our settlements.

guildsbounty - 5 months ago

In regards to the statement of adding furnished houses to the packages, that raises a question about a long-standing assumption I (and a large number of other backers I talk to) have had.

Do rulers (Mayor and up) automatically start the game with a home, even if they pledged prior to the 'Fully Furnished Villa/Manor' being added? Is the house just unfurnished? Or do they have to purchase their home with EP?

It just seems exceedingly odd to me that the Mayor of a Town might start the game homeless if he doesn't spend a large portion of his EP on a place to live. And especially odd if a Count has to expend EP to purchase a place to live, and could thus also start the game homeless.

RenegadeDastard - 5 months ago

Just in case anyone wanted to see all the tiers side by side.
Link

I made it editable because I make mistakes and i don't know if KoE, MUD and prologue rewards are right but if it gets to mess up I have a private copy.

Xyberviri - 5 months ago

To be honest i'd sell my account if i could

Ironside - 5 months ago
@Xyberviri:

When you buy into an Early Access or developing game, you are buying into the unknown and you have no control over the end state. I say you can chalk this to a life lesson.

I personally don't see the drama people are making this out to be.

Eldagrim - 5 months ago
@Xyberviri:

If you are that upset over a small % of a boost a single new pledge package APPEARS to receive over the old one, then I'd prefer you do sell it. I'd recommend EBay

Xyberviri - 5 months ago
@Eldagrim:

You can't sell virtual accounts on ebay anymore they are restricted items.

Also this isn't over this post, ive wanted to just sell my account since the whole SP requirement crap they did with sparks of life.

Caspian - 5 months ago
@Xyberviri:

Posted By Xyberviri at 12:06 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Also this isn't over this post, ive wanted to just sell my account since the whole SP requirement crap they did with sparks of life.

Hey Xyberviri, sorry to hear you're unhappy with the direction the game has gone.

With respect to the SP stuff, the game is constantly undergoing re-balancing to make sure it's fair and enjoyable for all. We had many good reasons for the change to require Story Points when creating a character with higher levels of reputation / fame.

If you'd like to discuss those reasons, I'm happy to do so.

cjmarsh - 5 months ago
@Caspian:

Posted By Caspian at 6:28 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Posted By Xyberviri at 12:06 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Also this isn't over this post, ive wanted to just sell my account since the whole SP requirement crap they did with sparks of life.

Hey Xyberviri, sorry to hear you're unhappy with the direction the game has gone.

With respect to the SP stuff, the game is constantly undergoing re-balancing to make sure it's fair and enjoyable for all. We had many good reasons for the change to require Story Points when creating a character with higher levels of reputation / fame.

If you'd like to discuss those reasons, I'm happy to do so.

How exactly are Story Points going to work? It's not that I'm upset by them at all, it's just that I don't know much about them despite having bought into them. I understand we have to earn our titles but what actions exactly will that entail? What will earn us enough Story Points to keep our titles from life to life, for example?

Pepperpot - 5 months ago

Also I'd like to add, in regards to the Phoenix, everyone is talking about it as if we all get a free Phoenix. That is obviously not the case. We get the OPTION to choose a Phoenix as part of the beastmaster tier but if we do that then we don't get any of the other pets. The reason I bring this up is that I, and I'm sure a fair few others, will probably not be choosing the Phoenix therefore that 'exclusive' has no effect. If they gave all of us a Phoenix aswell as another pet then you could argue its a bonus otherwise I would describe it more like a trade as we are trading our ability to have one of the other pets [which the new packages have too] for a Phoenix. The fact that they get to choose a pet too sort of devalues the phoenix thing even more.

And I agree that the Brewmaster tier are the "sacrifical lambs". I'm pledged at Artisan so it doesn't effect me but yea they are the only ones that truly lose out.

markof - 5 months ago

Thank you for the work and kind words but either i really misunderstood something or you just once more dodged the one packages that is clearly broken, to help i took the table from the KS page and replaced the Artisan by the New Courtier.

i made a sloppy paint job but it helps to be sure this is no official thing, just a practical way to compare and i have really tried to find it, but i can not find the "reducing the value" thing.

I do really hope that in-game dance is going to help my character get laid and have easy way to get baby contracts because if not i fail to see how exchanging that and a horse for a fully furnished manor is reducing the value !

beware, i do not ask for the courtier package to be changed, i do not ask either to change the brewmaster package, i just ask the truth be told, you had to sacrifice one of the early packages and it ended up being the brew master, i'm fine with it and kind of happy for the future courtier but do not try to force feed me that we are your angels, the brew masters are your sacrifical lambs.

That is ok we, at least i but i'm sure most of the brew masters are like me, did not stepped in to have an easy journey, we welcome the challenge and we'll move forward, who need a manor to run a county? we only need the support and loyalty of the people! just give me as my in-game emote either that middle finger thing you're talking about or the one used to sell cucumbers ... both are going to be really helpfull i'm sure.

Kayadine - 5 months ago
@markof:

Very similar scenario occurs for the Astronomer tier as well.

Kant - 5 months ago
@markof:

Posted By markof at 11:03 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Thank you for the work and kind words but either i really misunderstood something or you just once more dodged the one packages that is clearly broken, to help i took the table from the KS page and replaced the Artisan by the New Courtier.

i made a sloppy paint job but it helps to be sure this is no official thing, just a practical way to compare and i have really tried to find it, but i can not find the "reducing the value" thing.

I do really hope that in-game dance is going to help my character get laid and have easy way to get baby contracts because if not i fail to see how exchanging that and a horse for a fully furnished manor is reducing the value !

beware, i do not ask for the courtier package to be changed, i do not ask either to change the brewmaster package, i just ask the truth be told, you had to sacrifice one of the early packages and it ended up being the brew master, i'm fine with it and kind of happy for the future courtier but do not try to force feed me that we are your angels, the brew masters are your sacrifical lambs.

That is ok we, at least i but i'm sure most of the brew masters are like me, did not stepped in to have an easy journey, we welcome the challenge and we'll move forward, who need a manor to run a county? we only need the support and loyalty of the people! just give me as my in-game emote either that middle finger thing you're talking about or the one used to sell cucumbers ... both are going to be really helpfull i'm sure.

Dear SBS, could you please clarify whether Markof's analysis is correct or not. And if it is correct, would you allow KS Brewmaster backers to change to the new Courtier tier?

Rhaegys - 5 months ago
@markof:

Posted By markof at 3:03 PM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Thank you for the work and kind words but either i really misunderstood something or you just once more dodged the one packages that is clearly broken, to help i took the table from the KS page and replaced the Artisan by the New Courtier.

I totally agree with you. I was going to do a similar post but you beat me to it.

Just a few more things to add:

Courtier gives you 11 sparks not 10 like you said which makes things even worst. It makes the package worth 100$ more than Brewmaster tier, which compensate with the $100 credits the Courtier is missing.

So now it comes to the difference of EP, so if we consider that a brewmaster uses their credit store to get the 4 extra sparks... then it leaves them with 10EP less than the Courtier. And if you add that the Courtier has a fully furnished manor and the brewmaster doesn't, then again they are in a big disadvantage. Spcially considering that the cost of a fully furnished manor is around 3300 EP (they can't even buy it with their 2990)

Yes as Vye says the Courtier doesn't have the emotes, but I'm pretty sure most of them would trade those emotes for a fully furnished manor.

Finally, Vye also mention the Phoenix Pet, but that's kinda cheating because that pet was only a valid option 2 weeks ago and when most people pledged for Brewmaster that wasn't a certainty. In fact, if SBS would have published these new tiers after the first month of the extended KS as they had originally planned that pet was very far from being a reality. So I would put that pet away from the calculations.

Vye says:

I say mostly less valuable because a special emote, a county of your own, a phoenix pet, or additional EP may not seem as valuable as a villa or manor house to some people, and I can't assign your own personal value to what's in the packages.

But you are forgetting who the packages that have the villa or manor target to. It's mayors, barons, counts and dukes. I can assure you that those peoples will really find more valuable to have those houses than the emotes.

And also, housing has always been one of the most after sought features in any MMOs so don't be surprised that people gets upset the original packages doesn't have them.

So, all said, Courtier package is better than the Brewmaster tier (which both cost the same money) when you have promised us that none of the new packages would be better than the old tiers. And for that I understand that by spending the same money I will be better of having a KS tier, which obviously it is not the case for all the packages.

MisterTuggles - 4 months ago
@Rhaegys:

I am highly displeased that, as a Count on the Kickstarter, I am homeless. I own a dang county, but i HAVE NO ACTUAL HOME.

How is this even possible? Am I squatting in my own county in a tent? Do I extract rent from my county people by living in their basement like a troll for a day or two then going to the next?

Shady Clown - 4 months ago
@MisterTuggles:

Posted By MisterTuggles at 8:23 PM - Thu Jan 12 2017

I am highly displeased that, as a Count on the Kickstarter, I am homeless. I own a dang county, but i HAVE NO ACTUAL HOME.

How is this even possible? Am I squatting in my own county in a tent? Do I extract rent from my county people by living in their basement like a troll for a day or two then going to the next?

There was a update yesterday. KS Barons and Counts will now get a villa. KS Artisan and above will get a manor. The Old Blood Nobles shall rise once again.

Kayadine - 5 months ago
@Rhaegys:

Again, this is the exact same scenerio as the Astronomer Tier

Bieito_Skybourne - 5 months ago

Thank you for the detailed explanation Vye. This most certainly took a lot of time to put together.

Just a suggestion that could help people put some things to rest in their minds. Create a page where the page would show a line item report from the database of what they currently have. That way people will understand exactly what they have, if they want to upgrade to a new tier, or if they want to buy more EP to gain other items. It could be simply like how the transaction history shows or even something simpler. Just a suggestion.

Atogrim - 5 months ago

All this talking about pledges and what they are worth actually convinced me to do a fresh layaway plan ^^

Aurra Sing - 5 months ago

Or make an upgrade from Astronomer to Magistrate possible!

Antaryon - 5 months ago
@Aurra Sing:

Posted By Aurra Sing at 11:10 AM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Or make an upgrade from Astronomer to Magistrate possible!

You can upgrade from astronomer to magistrate so if you want to do that it is a non issue.

Atogrim - 5 months ago
@Antaryon:

Posted By Antaryon at 11:24 AM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Posted By Aurra Sing at 11:10 AM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Or make an upgrade from Astronomer to Magistrate possible!

You can upgrade from astronomer to magistrate so if you want to do that it is a non issue.

Nope, you can't. I only says: View Pledge. The next buy option is the Governor.

Kayadine - 5 months ago
@Atogrim:

this is true. We can not go to magistrate from Astronomer

JaPeMo - 5 months ago

Vye thanks for your comments about new shop.

I have question about old Astronomer vs new Magsitrate. What happen with exclusive kickstarter articles? like this:

In-game decorative plaque¹ (exclusive to Kickstarter backers) vs Commemorate an in-game headstone

In-game decorative statue¹ (exclusive to Kickstarter backers) vs Decorative statue in your settlement commemorating you

Same article with diferent name... What happen with program of fidelity?

Maybe in the future I will be upgrade to Magistrate for cooperate with game, but now ins't posible, don't have button to upgrade... Only can upgrade to Governor?

We want look more advances about the game...

Happy new year for SBS and Elyrians

Antaryon - 5 months ago

I appriciate the time you took to address the concerns @vye and I agree with your pricing of almost all the tiers. Still I'd like to share my view and reasoning on a certain pledge, namely the current Magistrate tier compared to the late Astronomer tier. These are my views only, if they stay the same they are right now, I have no problems with that, since I do not plan to upgrade from my astronomer layaway further, still I'd like to present my view and reasoning for I find the new magistrate tier skewed.

It is simple to compare them really (and make more sense then comparing the count and magistrate tier in my opinion) since they have the same 3 big rewards (as the entry level tiers for them) as in

1) Access to alpha 1

2) Access to EA forum

3) Naming a star/constellation

So if they were otherwise the same value (not counting the KS backer rewards, as in the pet and the commemorative KS plaque) I would say the new tier compared to the old one is fairly priced.

So, let's see the differences:

Astronomer (350$)

  • 50$ merchandise credit
  • 940 EP (about 75$ worth)
  • 5 sparks (125$ worth)

Magistrate (500$)

  • 2000 EP (about 160$ worth)
  • 6 sparks (150 $ worth)
  • Villa(heavy) (about 160$ worth if it is indeed a stone villa and still will cost 2000 EP)

So if you get Astronomer, you get 250$ added value for 350$ while for Magistrate you get 470$ added value for 500$, the difference in value is 220$ while the difference in price is 150$ so even if I were to account for the Phoenix and the plaque it is a very tight fit.

You could argue that the entry price is higher and you get more freedom with your EP spenditure, but I could argue, that I am an early backer, so I took a much bigger risk then those that pledge later, So for me a fair amount (to the early backers) would be an equal value compared to the prices you pay as in.

A possible solution I see to address this difference is:

a) A lower EP value of the Villa

b) An added Townhouse for the Astronomer tier

Again These are only my views and opinions, just wanted to share them, to present a view that a big part of the early community might share.

pure_crimsun - 5 months ago
@Antaryon:

Posted By Antaryon at 12:37 AM - Fri Dec 30 2016

I appriciate the time you took to address the concerns @vye and I agree with your pricing of almost all the tiers. Still I'd like to share my view and reasoning on a certain pledge, namely the current Magistrate tier compared to the late Astronomer tier. These are my views only, if they stay the same they are right now, I have no problems with that, since I do not plan to upgrade from my astronomer layaway further, still I'd like to present my view and reasoning for I find the new magistrate tier skewed.

It is simple to compare them really (and make more sense then comparing the count and magistrate tier in my opinion) since they have the same 3 big rewards (as the entry level tiers for them) as in

1) Access to alpha 1

2) Access to EA forum

3) Naming a star/constellation

So if they were otherwise the same value (not counting the KS backer rewards, as in the pet and the commemorative KS plaque) I would say the new tier compared to the old one is fairly priced.

So, let's see the differences:

Astronomer (350$)

  • 50$ merchandise credit
  • 940 EP (about 75$ worth)
  • 5 sparks (125$ worth)

Magistrate (500$)

  • 2000 EP (about 160$ worth)
  • 6 sparks (150 $ worth)
  • Villa(heavy) (about 160$ worth if it is indeed a stone villa and still will cost 2000 EP)

So if you get Astronomer, you get 250$ added value for 350$ while for Magistrate you get 470$ added value for 500$, the difference in value is 220$ while the difference in price is 150$ so even if I were to account for the Phoenix and the plaque it is a very tight fit.

You could argue that the entry price is higher and you get more freedom with your EP spenditure, but I could argue, that I am an early backer, so I took a much bigger risk then those that pledge later, So for me a fair amount (to the early backers) would be an equal value compared to the prices you pay as in.

A possible solution I see to address this difference is:

a) A lower EP value of the Villa

b) An added Townhouse for the Astronomer tier

Again These are only my views and opinions, just wanted to share them, to present a view that a big part of the early community might share.

I agree with this mostly because I have the Astronomer tier on layaway and I feel it is of less value now. To me it seems like you are getting more for the new package then you are for the old.

Kayadine - 5 months ago
@pure_crimsun:

I would be ok with this

JaPeMo - 5 months ago
@Antaryon:

"You could argue that the entry price is higher and you get more freedom with your EP spenditure, but I could argue, that I am an early backer, so I took a much bigger risk then those that pledge later, So for me a fair amount (to the early backers) would be an equal value compared to the prices you pay as in.

A possible solution I see to address this difference is:

a) A lower EP value of the Villa

b) An added Townhouse for the Astronomer tier"

+1

Atogrim - 5 months ago

So...if I go from Astronomer to Governor... I will keep the old stuff and get the new stuff? No matter if grayed out or not?

Edit: Nvm found the answer in another post. Answer is yes ^^

Elfseeker - 5 months ago

was a bit concerned to see the exposition and game access and similar -not- greyed out on bloodline. I mean I spent a pretty penny getting that one JUST for the exposition thing...so very glad to hear that 'if you thought you had it, you do'. :) that said, 5 dollars should be doable even if it should show that I no longer have game access, merely a lot of dlc's. :P

OrangeBoy - 5 months ago

This is ridiculous, you mean to tell me the blood-line tier is 5 dollars more?

What in the hell is going on at SbS? That is an entire subway footlong sandwhich at some participating locations

LorenzW - 5 months ago

Thank you.

I will henceforth go clicky-clicky through them all any how...

Leilah - 5 months ago

Thanks Vye you answered all my concerns.

Mordakai - 5 months ago

You awesome! Great post to clear things up for those who weren't sure!

cjmarsh - 5 months ago

Well if that post doesn't explain the issue as thoroughly as possible I don't know what to say. Thanks for putting all that together Vye.

Jongatown - 5 months ago

Vye, thank you for all this, your fingers must be "out of breath"...

I for one am less worried about comparing tit-for-tat and more interested in just knowing "for what you paid, here is what you will receive" and leaving it at that. A page or addition to our account pages itemizing what we have qualified for would simplify things so we know how many sparks, how much EP, etc. I hope to see that down the road. Regardless of "what I get" for it, I am just happy that you all are working on this project and remain excited to burn down the worl... I mean, play, play... in the world you are creating...

Cloudstrike - 5 months ago

Thank you for all of your hard work during the holidays!

Grayshade - 5 months ago

Is it possible to "upgrade" from old pledge to current (side grade actually)?

Do we lose kickstarter stuff if we upgrade?

Is it possible to refund EP bought in the form of merchandise credit?

I bought Astronomer, spent 50$ merch credit and 2x 50$ on ep, but the new Magistrate is just way better.

Grayshade - 5 months ago
@Grayshade:

Posted By Grayshade at 04:14 AM - Fri Dec 30 2016

Is it possible to "upgrade" from old pledge to current (side grade actually)?

Do we lose kickstarter stuff if we upgrade?

Is it possible to refund EP bought in the form of merchandise credit?

Anyone? I've seen conflicting answers so far. Maybe make a sticky with answers to 20 most commonly asked questions or something like that.

ShadowTani - 5 months ago
@Grayshade:

Wouldn't it make more sense comparing Magistrate with the old count tier instead, rather than with the Astronomer tier? A lot of value will probably come with the count title that hasn't been specified, just like how Mayors/Barons have been implied to get a majority share of the land in their settlement.

By going for magistrate you'll maybe get more than the astronomer that was cheaper, but you will also technically get much less than the old count title that was the old tier at that price. If the count title holds no value to you, then of course, that's a different matter, but SBS can't take that into account because for most people the count title has a lot of value.

Shrewdcrow - 5 months ago

Even though I figured out what was happening just by reading through the packages, this outline really was fantastic. Very clear and easy to understand.

Thanks!

Desdark - 5 months ago

So, we will have clarification about the upgrade from old Count to new Governor?

It will not worth?

500 IP, 3 sparks..no manor...for 250$?

ShadowTani - 5 months ago
@Desdark:

If the count title and the various kickstarter bonuses have no value or meaning to you, then I guess maybe? Considering it's just a buffed up Mayor/Baron title tier without any DE like the original Artisan tier then it's technically a worse deal. But as the journal says, they can't take into account the individual values people give the digital rewards. Personally I think it's a worse deal, especially considering they may reduce the EP cost to structures by the time the EP shop goes back up.

Dr.Quick - 5 months ago
@ShadowTani:

That really is the crux of it though with structures; The (heavy) in the structures, though I hate to assume, sound like stone, which under the old ep prices place them at several thousand EP which equals from 200 to 300 USD respectively for villas and manors, which paired with the additional EP seems less impressive of a slash and makes me question if I would not be better off swapping a brewmaster to a sidegraded package 10, may not but now I have to spend some time doing my own analytics.

coach - 5 months ago
@Dr.Quick:

Two issues:

1) do old package nobles get manors and villas like was posted above un old design journals?

2) SBS is making a decent sized mistake giving any dollar value greater than zero to ingame dances, ingame emotes, ingame salute, ingame plaque, or name in credits ... can SBS at least see the concern of folks that might be concerned that they should be okay with those ingame non-factors as an equivalent to a manor that costs $300 worth of EP?

Dr.Quick - 5 months ago
@coach:

@coach sorry just saw your reply.

  1. No, they have stated that explicitly they do not, they could always buy them with EP but while you might inherit a family house, the new packages have villas and manors you can place (the EP item).

  2. I agree with this 100% and can't really answer if they can see it. Running the numbers deeply I can say that most packages are reduced all and all, from a tittle to dollar ratio, but the Brew master against the Courtier directly show that better deals on a package level is in the new package, while upgrading from a Baron to Magistrate at this point would be a advantageous choice more so than spending $250 in IP as you would get additional sparks, EP and the villa.

We probably all should just sit tight and wait until the store updates on the back end with the kickstarter pledges itemizing what we actually have but if upgrading and keeping kickstarter pledges is available (as everyone I talk to is saying from what they interpret from Caspian's comments) then I will need to find out about side grading, and if available that's what I will take; otherwise it penalizes me for backing at brew master $1,000.00 and not only going to the $750.00 level and waiting for the store release and upgrade.

Maric - 5 months ago
@coach:

This.