COMMUNITY - FORUMS - FAMILIES & NOBLE HOUSES
Non-traditional Characters

One of the things that got me thinking after reading the families and families selection blog [Source] was how the different starting conditions might play out. The non-traditional characters caught my eye the most so thought I would start a bit of discussion on the topic.

If you haven’t read the Developer Journal yet in a nutshell non-traditional characters are when a player take over the life of an established NPC. You have a starting age of 18+. You take over a NPC using the exact attributes, skills and appearance they have developed over time without any customisation (though you can later change their name). You also get anything they have developed such as a business, area of land or reputation.

Discussion Points

D1. What age do you think will be the upper age limit for non-traditional characters? Or do you not think there will be one?

I think it is certainly an interesting proposition due to the starting benefits of taking over a well-established NPC who has had a long time to find their place in the world. However, that will come at the disadvantage of a reduced lifespan. For instance if you are taking on a 70 year old character, they could well have some pretty prestigious position but could keel over at any time. You would not only have to pay for another life pretty quickly, but at that age you are unlikely to be able to have your own offspring to continue the family. Perhaps you get control of any offspring they already have, or perhaps they have placed a maximum age on non-traditional characters.

I think an age limit does make the most sense in the long term. It prevents misunderstanding and people costing themselves more money than they intended. It also allows people to have their own offspring to build their own family from that point on. The age limit could therefore be approx. 30 to 40. Though that leads onto additional questions about when does child bearing age stop in this game.

D2. What sort of benefits do you think will come with a non-traditional character? Are they balanced with the other options?

There has to be a balance between the benefit you get from a non-traditional character compared to joining a family or making a ward. Currently it looks hugely stacking in favour of the non-traditional character from my perspective, which makes me think I am missing something crucial. You get the life you want to live already set up for you, you just have no character customisation. This is assuming that you can choose the NPC you take over based on a similar filter system so if you want to farm, you can choose a farmer for instance, which seems a reasonable assumption.

Basically, I cannot see why anyone at the start of the game choosing either of the other options. Unless I have misunderstood joining a player family will not be possible as there will be no player born children to take over, wards are alone, and non-traditional characters get a huge host of bonuses. Unless you are absolutely set at giving up major advantages to get that jawline you have always wanted in character customisation I just do not get why you would go for a ward.

So what you think? Age restrictions? Imbalance? Something you are not interested in at all as a mechanic? Go!


Author of the Elyria Echo the first, and least up-to-date, CoE fan site.

9/8/2015 5:13:17 PM #1

I too have found the idea of the non-traditional character option intriguing. The only draw back I see are the lack of customization and the restricted potential for discovering new things if you go the normal route. The concern over non traditional is that it may shoe horn you into a path you may not have taken if you followed the normal progression.

Once again the choices open to us are vast, complicated and impactful. I have many things to contemplate. I feel the headache coming on now.


9/8/2015 5:39:08 PM #2

These things get balanced somehow after a while, I hope.

The game starts with no kingdoms, not even cities, so not much of property value either. When you pick an old NPC as your char, you basically pay for property, and maybe a place in a good family. But there won't be much of a nobility either. So I don't see the point of starting with an old char when game/server starts.

Even if Caspian gives us more info, there are too many variables, too many possibilities to talk about without actually being in game. Maybe they'll allow us to try different paths during testing, like 10+ sparks of life and 20+ souls for everyone, without having to pay for each of them.


9/8/2015 5:44:23 PM #3

I think there is going to be a maximum limit to the age of the NTC (non-traditional character).

You say: Basically, I cannot see why anyone at the start of the game choosing either of the other options. Unless I have misunderstood joining a player family will not be possible as there will be no player born children to take over, wards are alone, and non-traditional characters get a huge host of bonuses.

No, you can't join a player family but you can join a NPC family. As they have young family NPC members to take over.

I think that choosing to join a family is the middle option. The one that is balanced between customization and resources/skills/etc. Ward is the option that would allow maximum flexibility and cast your character from scratch without anything dragging you at the cost of other benefits. While NTC is in the opposite side, where you have a established set of skills, resources, lands, fame, etc but sacrifice customization and, probably, some of the family benefits as well (though this is not very clear).

I think that all the options are valid at the start, it all depends what you want to do or what do you prioritize: customization, something established, something in between?

Personally, I won't choose a NTC because I would like to have certain flexibility and customization in the character I'm going to play, so more likely it will be family for me, though I won't discard the Ward option yet.


9/8/2015 5:57:09 PM #4

Some will have to pick a few old NTCs though, even during testing. Just those NTCs that have good crafting skills, to create better gear for the young players. Something tells me NPCs won't sell too many goods, maybe there won't be NPC stores at all if there's no city... well maybe except a few peddlers.


9/8/2015 6:00:59 PM #5

That's not exactly true. The game starts with kingdoms, we know that you will be able to use IP to buy the King title, so that means there are kingdoms and if there are kingdoms there are cities or at least towns. You also say there won't be much of a nobility either. Here I quote from the DJ#5 in the NTC section however you can begin the game with an established business, as a reputable adventurer, or even as an existing nobleman


9/8/2015 6:02:32 PM #6

There will be many kingdoms, and dozens of towns, villages, etc... already existing in the world at launch. In most cases they'll be NPC ran, waiting for some player to move up in the ranks. In other cases, people will have spent their Influence to begin as nobility, in which case the town, county, duchy, or kingdom will be player-ran.

As for the value in starting with an older NPC, it just depends on whether you want to spend the time training up a character to the point you want them to be, or get a head start. Some prefer the ability to roleplay their younger characters or fine-tune their skills; others care less about customization and really want to get a jump on their in-game careers. Both play-styles are valid.


9/8/2015 6:11:36 PM #7

I can almost swear I saw something about no city in starting locations... or maybe there are cities, but elsewhere... or maybe I'm completely wrong lol, don't mind me. Thanks for making things a bit more clear.


9/8/2015 6:33:04 PM #8

I think Ender's confusion is rather justified by this part of the developer journal:

"However, if the engine feels there's too many people clustered in one region (no starter towns in CoE) it may withhold families in that area seeking children and instead suggest another area of the map."

It certainly could be read as there being no towns at the start of the game. Though I think it was meant to refer to the MMO trope of all new characters starting at the same town (e.g. Goldshire for all humans in WoW). The clarification is rather helpful!

I can see the fun in training up a character. It is the normal route I would take in an MMO, even when I have other characters in the game they do not assist any new characters I make because I enjoy the progression. However, with the idea that people can choose the head start it does make me worry how practical it is in the game to compete with those who already have an established position within the in world NPC community.

Rhaegys - "No, you can't join a player family but you can join a NPC family. As they have young family NPC members to take over."

I suppose getting skills from your parents maybe a bonus, or it maybe that you could get equal levels of skill from a ward. Joining a purely NPC family doesn't give any of the benefits I associate with families there is no social group, no support, you might as well just be a ward.


Author of the Elyria Echo the first, and least up-to-date, CoE fan site.

9/8/2015 6:39:25 PM #9

Spot on, Victoria! I was about to write the same thing, I already copied the exact same paragraph :P Anyway, all clear now, but if some newb (not me, I just became advanced newb now!)reads the same journal, without knowing more info, it might get a bit confusing.


9/8/2015 6:41:43 PM #10

I will almost certainly go the NTC route. It fits my character better to start older than younger. I am probably going to spend, no joke, hours in the character creation screen finding the perfect match. I will use the resources gained to build a strong foundation for me and the Avatars. I will probably pick an NTC that is not to old to reproduce, possibly one that already has a wife, but no children. Depending on my friends that join me I will probably have a few kids, just for some variety. Yes, I'll end up dropping some extra $$ on a new spark sooner than most, but my second life will have a tremendous base to work with.


9/8/2015 6:47:48 PM #11

So you think there will be a way to find your match to that detail? While I imagine the same wealth, power & standing, occupations, disposition and physical traits filters (general info doesn't make much sense), I wonder exactly what we get to see before we choose. Will it be every small detail or will it be a general overview and then you take what you are given when you get into the game?


Author of the Elyria Echo the first, and least up-to-date, CoE fan site.

9/8/2015 6:52:07 PM #12

From the info I got you will be able to use all the same filters for NTC as you can for regular characters. I believe I will find an NTC that fits all the things I want to have. I believe, again based on what I've seen, that we will be able to see all the same info for an NTC as a regular character. So, all the same family info and character info.


9/8/2015 6:54:19 PM #13

VictoriaRachel: I suppose getting skills from your parents maybe a bonus, or it maybe that you could get equal levels of skill from a ward. Joining a purely NPC family doesn't give any of the benefits I associate with families there is no social group, no support, you might as well just be a ward.

Not initially but they will and besides there is the family mechanics like helping you to come back to life, going to retrieve your body and things like that, even if they are NPC they will probably do that as well. But I suppose that NTC has families as well?


9/8/2015 7:19:45 PM #14

One important variable is how easy can you get/lose a noble title. Money comes and goes, house can be rebuilt, but nobility is something worth defending at all costs.

I'm more inclined to start as a ward, put all free points on fighting skills, train combat skills a bit more, group with similar type of players and together we can take the largest NPC controlled kingdom (if it's easier to fight NPCs than PCs). Then PC kingdoms. Without spending one IP on nobility.

So choose carefully if you wanna be a king. You'll spend all your points for your precious title, only to lose it a couple of weeks later. Your old nobles won't stand a chance against a group of young and skilled wards.


9/8/2015 8:15:37 PM #15

Well, if Victoria jumps in the game and has a woman that has an elder son, maybe i can jump in as a son hehehehe.

However, I do think that the first wave of players to enter the game should somehow be allowed to join each other's families even if a little bit "going around the rules"...

Cause the thing is, it'll be easy for new players to join after a month into release, since families will be running, and the later it is, the easier it will be cause of the diversity of options both NPC and PC run families.

However, if i start out in the other side of the world compared to other people here that i'd might want to consider playing with (consider of course) it'll be hard i imagine to "accidently" ever be in league/family with them i figure... Dunno, just navigating in the air, thinking about this... It'll be easy to get into the game when ur friend already has children you can possess, but what if ur friend is a younger kid, or an older man? Dunno... just wondering... Thinking i cant be Mom's child cause she wont have children yet AHAHAHAH


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