COMMUNITY - FORUMS - SOULS, TALENTS, & REINCARNATION
Can souls, by any means, be destroyed?
+2

This question is a very serious one. Can ones soul be subject to possible destruction as in being deleted? It would feel extremely wrong that someone puts about 7 years of dedication to a soul and all of a sudden for one reason or another it has a risk of just being deleted. I would like to know this cause I don't mind buying another spark of life for dying and taking risks, but losing your hard work and time and the money you used on that specific soul is just wrong. Any answers to this?

12/16/2016 11:44:52 PM #1
+1

To add on, discussion about vampires and liches brought up the idea of souls potentially being able to be destroyed/risked. Not sure if there is enough info out yet but if anyone has some please share.


Alt text - can be left blank

12/16/2016 11:47:56 PM #2
+6

I could see there being dire circumstances, that would warrant a soul to be destroyed.. as stated above, id vote yes to the permadeath of a soul if they chose to follow the path of a supernatural. There has to be some Major risk involved for those type of things.. Weigh your options.. moral, or risk perma permadeath as a supernatural!!


12/16/2016 11:54:59 PM #3
+1

Id have to agree with you Mordakai, anyone taking the path of a supernatural should have to take HUGE risks, like having their soul up to be destroyed. I myself argued this creates a story and once again adds importance to ones life and soul, in a game like this i think they are trying to capture something close to fear when worrying about ones life, closely to how anyone would worry about their own life IRL. Supernatural paths have people take on bigger risks to lose it all but give them the power to change history, something a normal man may not be able to change on his own.

To add once again, i think another question is if this type of playstyle will strictly be rare and a chosen path or if it can be forced upon someone, for example a vampire turning others into vampires putting themselves at risk for their souls.


Alt text - can be left blank

12/17/2016 1:12:49 AM #4
+0

I think, yes. But it should be very uncommon and kind of the players own fault like becoming a Lich. I think, souls can be destroyed if you become a Lich and your phylactery gets found and destroyed. In this case, the soul imo should be destroyed and not just allow to start a new life with all its gotten boons of potentially hundreds of years of training.

And if a higher vampire sucks out your soul and transfers you into a vampire this way... then i think, your soul will only be freed to use it again once that higher vampire got killed (if ever). As long as he has your soul, you will have to play another soul.

And dunno, maybe there are other very risky alchemistic things. Maybe someone tries to put souls into objects like in Pillars of Eternity. If you fail transferring a soul into an object... what happens... is the soul freed or destroyed? Still, it would be your fault, if you tried to transfer your souls somewhere. Dont mess with god-stuff or face the consequences.


Friend Code: 30EF47

12/17/2016 2:07:39 AM #5
+19

Souls can only be destroyed by ruthless and heartless women


Friend code 2f398a I am bound to the Luna server

12/17/2016 2:41:53 AM #6
+1

Posted By Mordakai at 10:47 AM - Sat Dec 17 2016

I could see there being dire circumstances, that would warrant a soul to be destroyed.. as stated above, id vote yes to the permadeath of a soul if they chose to follow the path of a supernatural. There has to be some Major risk involved for those type of things.. Weigh your options.. moral, or risk perma permadeath as a supernatural!!

But even so, being chosen for this path is primarily done to aid or give flavour to the story. Or more, the option being presented to anyone is as such. Why should someone be punished for that? We dont want people to not choose these paths because they'll definitely lose everything afterwards, because then after a year of play noone will ever do it, and this is harmful to those aspects of the story.

Granted, we cant give a lich with 3-5 years worth of skills and knowledge be able to carry those over as well, but its fairly easy to make a compromise of where he would otherwise be if he hadnt taken such path. But we cant punish someone for taking these traits if they ever get given the choice. SOMEONE has to be evil and shake things up. Or more than likely someone will use these traits for good, rather than evil and be revered. Whatever they and circumstance allows them to do.

But yeah, imagine the world getting boring and stagnant, then one of the higher ups chooses to become a lich, and it plays out good, bad, but most of all interestingly for everyone. Everyone wins sort of thing. When he is eventually dealt with, he now has nothing to come back to, and basically quits the game instead of starting again. We've then possibly lost one of our most influential players just because he wanted things to be shaken up and interesting.


~Blink your eyes just once and see everything in ruins~

12/17/2016 3:12:59 AM #7
+1

Posted By Darknesse at 10:41 PM - Fri Dec 16 2016

Posted By Mordakai at 10:47 AM - Sat Dec 17 2016

I could see there being dire circumstances, that would warrant a soul to be destroyed.. as stated above, id vote yes to the permadeath of a soul if they chose to follow the path of a supernatural. There has to be some Major risk involved for those type of things.. Weigh your options.. moral, or risk perma permadeath as a supernatural!!

But even so, being chosen for this path is primarily done to aid or give flavour to the story. Or more, the option being presented to anyone is as such. Why should someone be punished for that? We dont want people to not choose these paths because they'll definitely lose everything afterwards, because then after a year of play noone will ever do it, and this is harmful to those aspects of the story.

Granted, we cant give a lich with 3-5 years worth of skills and knowledge be able to carry those over as well, but its fairly easy to make a compromise of where he would otherwise be if he hadnt taken such path. But we cant punish someone for taking these traits if they ever get given the choice. SOMEONE has to be evil and shake things up. Or more than likely someone will use these traits for good, rather than evil and be revered. Whatever they and circumstance allows them to do.

But yeah, imagine the world getting boring and stagnant, then one of the higher ups chooses to become a lich, and it plays out good, bad, but most of all interestingly for everyone. Everyone wins sort of thing. When he is eventually dealt with, he now has nothing to come back to, and basically quits the game instead of starting again. We've then possibly lost one of our most influential players just because he wanted things to be shaken up and interesting.

This is the message Im trying to show, but people do not understand. Why should you be punished even further for spicing the story. Its enough punishment to be shunned by society, the risks involved trying to get there, jail, deaths and plus after becoming said supernatural being once you die there is no spirit walking. That kind of punishment, as in losing years of soul building will make player that have the choice not choose it, if it is decided by them at all. Thank you Darknesse

12/17/2016 5:19:15 AM #8
+3

As far as I know, when someone undergoes the transformation into a lich, they bind their soul to a physical item. So long as that physical item remains intact, the lich cannot permanently die. However, when the item is destroyed, so is the lich. The soul is not destroyed; however, all skill ramps are eliminated. This means the soul used by the lich is effectively reset to 0.

One of the greatest ways characters will grow in power in CoE is through the use of skill ramps, building up skills over time, reincarnating, and improving those skills quicker and building them up further in future incarnations.

I am not sure how vampires are supposed to work, but I don't believe people with talents should be punished because they don't get to choose if they are a talent or not. Likewise, I don't think souls should be destroyed, but resetting their skill ramps comes pretty damn close.


12/17/2016 6:34:25 AM #9
-1

Posted By Honeybrew at 4:19 PM - Sat Dec 17 2016

As far as I know, when someone undergoes the transformation into a lich, they bind their soul to a physical item. So long as that physical item remains intact, the lich cannot permanently die. However, when the item is destroyed, so is the lich. The soul is not destroyed; however, all skill ramps are eliminated. This means the soul used by the lich is effectively reset to 0.

One of the greatest ways characters will grow in power in CoE is through the use of skill ramps, building up skills over time, reincarnating, and improving those skills quicker and building them up further in future incarnations.

I am not sure how vampires are supposed to work, but I don't believe people with talents should be punished because they don't get to choose if they are a talent or not. Likewise, I don't think souls should be destroyed, but resetting their skill ramps comes pretty damn close.

As i said, losing all skill ramps, even as a lich is pretty extreme. It effectively creates the same situation i outlined. Players should be encouraged to take these paths, if such a path becomes open to them and not felt like they'll worsen their post-situation experience. We dont want anyone to feel discouraged to take a game found talent for any reason other than that they do not want to play that type of character, or that they want to profit from it (if possible). That isnt to say that a Lich should benefit from all the skills they gain in their extended line, but theres definitely a middle ground. All other supernaturals should be considered in the same way.


~Blink your eyes just once and see everything in ruins~

12/17/2016 6:55:24 AM #10
+3

I know that in the case of vampires, your soul is effectively forzen until the time you die as a vamp (or get cured I guess if that will be possible), so it will not get destroyed in that situation. In case of the Lich, I hope it is destoryed when the philatrecy is taken care of, being a Lich is a very deliberate evil process and would gain you tremendous power, so it is only fitting that it carries consecvences and if you really fear death, then it will heavily motivate your actions.


12/17/2016 8:09:18 AM #11
+3

Posted By Honeybrew at 06:19 AM - Sat Dec 17 2016

However, when the item is destroyed, so is the lich. The soul is not destroyed; however, all skill ramps are eliminated.

This isn't the case I believe, when you become undead, lich or vampire, you will not gain any more towards the souls skill ramp, because the soul is no longer part of the body. So you will retain any skill ramp up to the point where you turned undead.

12/17/2016 8:30:48 AM #12
+3

Posted By Antaryon at 06:55 AM - Sat Dec 17 2016

I know that in the case of vampires, your soul is effectively forzen until the time you die as a vamp (or get cured I guess if that will be possible), so it will not get destroyed in that situation. In case of the Lich, I hope it is destoryed when the philatrecy is taken care of, being a Lich is a very deliberate evil process and would gain you tremendous power, so it is only fitting that it carries consecvences and if you really fear death, then it will heavily motivate your actions.

+1. This ^

Anything that potentially incapacitates others souls, or is built around griefing, trolling or a negative impact to players with a significant advantage should carry an offset / punishment.


12/17/2016 8:54:43 AM #13
+3

I don't think that following the path of evil and becoming a lich or vampire or what have you should result in a soul, or skill ramps, being destroyed but I also think that it deserves some penalty. In my opinion it should "curse" the soul for future generations and only pious living in future lives would be able to overcome it, or some kind of redemption quest perhaps. If the consequences for the act is potential immortality then the potential downsides should be equally long-term.

Another important factor is that it should only be a severe punishment only if the process was deliberate. Someone shouldn't be able to stumble upon being a vampire and then discover their soul is screwed for a while (not that I think that's how the process will be).


12/17/2016 9:38:49 AM #14
+0

A fair point - unintentional or positive acts shouldn't result in penalty.

On a related note, if a lich affects other people's souls negatively there should be some small buff to them when freed. Would be a nice way to balance out the loss.


12/17/2016 3:37:36 PM #15
+2

Lets just say this then, why would the engine punish people for being bad. The devs said that the engine respects if you got towards the light affinity or dark. Why would it punish player for trying to spice up the story, yes there are penalties already towards dark affinity. but why go to such extremes to the minority of people that would actually end up being true evil. Lets face it not lots of people will be good at it since there are laws and the majority of people would end up following them due to wanting a better life. And in the end liches and supernatural being are not gonna be many. Those people are already penalized with many things.

I just do not think that imprisoning or deleting a soul in any way is a fair punishment in the eyes of the devs. Risking money, lands, titles, freedom yeah those are ok they are part of life and its risks. But losing time and effort put into a game you love is just to much. Imagine a player that became the truest evil in order to make the story more rich and fun and then his soul is just done after doing so. Like Darknesse said the game will potentially be losing one of its most influential players because what is the point of losing so much time or being what he truly wants because of such an extreme punishment.

A game made up of just good guys is boring, monotone and to freaking naive. this is not WoW, Guild Wards or any MMO there are people who desire to be evil and not necessarily griefing but just committing evil acts.

Log in to post