That video was from May 2016.. keep in mind that the game isn't even in alpha yet and they have also hired a few more people to the staff since then. We can expect that as they improve things that the visuals and the mechanics will be a bit more smooth.
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Why there is no "quote" button on OP (I only see like and dislike butons)? (I do see a "quote" button on the second post")
Anyway @OP: You certainly didn't have to press just 1 button in WoW, and if you did you were obliterated and used as a door mat not only by other players but by random mobs as well.
You being able to tab target enemies and click skills to use on them, or having to aim your attacks and use button combos to activate skills does not determine if combat is skill based or not, it's just that combat principle is different.
If you think that tab targeting and skill clicking is for noobs go and try play a Secret World, and when you get trashed by normal mobs in forest, or when you get trashed by player in full low level green gear, while you are carrying full epic nightmare dungeon gear, come back and lets see what you think about which type of combat is skill based then. :)
Tab targeting is boring and overused stop being so triggered
Posted By Mr_Plunkett at 4:16 PM - Tue Feb 21 2017
Tab targeting is boring and overused stop being so triggered
In your opinion. Different people may have different opinions.
So you think people are triggered just because they disagree with you?
More the internal monologue that should've stayed internal at the start mixed with telling people to try something mixed with a horrid attempt to make yourself seem like the greatest tab targeter in the world.
Honestly, tab target doesnt take nearly the skill as other systems.. I don't care what game you play or what the game is like. I'm sorry you would die to players in any game when their gear was sub par to yours, be it tab target or not. If that happened to you often, they were probably better than you. Wouldn't of changed in any combat system.
It has been mentioned that CoE combat will offer a softlock for combat.. Basically your character will face your combatant so that you can focus on your offense and defense maneuvers. This option can be turned off. Granted this was a concept, not set and stone and that feature may not make it to release.
I personally wouldn't use it.. It would only be helpful in a 1v1 fight and would probably set you up for failure in group combat.
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The point i tried to get across was that tab targeting does not relieve a player from needing any skills, which was insinuated by the OP.
both tab targeted games, and non tab targeted games can require more or less skill of a player, and skill requirement is not directly tied to type of targeting.
People here attempt to etiquette tab targeted games as "no skills required" which is funny to say the least.
My example was a tab targeted game that require the most skill out of player than any MMO i have ever played (and i played almost all of them). And since posters here was so certain tab targeted games are so below "skill games", i offered them an example which they can try if they want to be proven otherwise (rather than just saying they are wrong but without any example which would then be just lame).
-- and Kab, I never said how skilled I (personally) was in a particular game, because that isn't important at all, so when you try to put some conclusions about other player skills next time, make sure to read well what they posted before you make those conclusions.
I also didn't say that manual targeting doesn't require any skills. However game being manually targeted still doesn't mean skills will be required, it's all about how the system is made.
However, as usual, people who don't like tab targeting go around the forums, calling all people who think otherwise names etc.
Posted By Mr_Plunkett at 5:33 PM - Tue Feb 21 2017
More the internal monologue that should've stayed internal
Oh yes you are the one who has the godly rights to tell others what they should write and what they shouldn't. lol
To answer the OP, the video is old and since then they have hired more staff and should be doing a lot of work on the combat and the animations to make it more smooth.
Something to also think about is the combat in that video is showing the "fencing" combat style that is many ways in game, and in real life, a more stiff and awkward fighting style when it comes to how it looks, even so i hope that style becomes more smooth, and believe other styles like traditional 1 handed swords or 2 handed sword styles will look less stiff and wonky.
Just found COE. Sounds interesting. Would have pledged if I had known about it.
As for the combat video. Combat is a bit simplistic. I don't really know what's happening with combat.
Adding more moves would make it more interesting. Such as...
Q = Dodge left E = Dodge right Shift + Q = Roll Left Shift + E = Roll right C = Crouch V or Mouse Sidebutton = Parry .Deflecting a attack, makes opponent vunerable. Shift + V or Shift + Mouse Sidebutton = Body Counter .Takes down an oppenent like in judizo, makes opponent vunerable. Right mouse = Block or Raise Shield. Shift + Right Mouse = Push / Shield Bash. Shift + W = Charge, knocks down opponent if they don't block or body counter head on. Ctrl = Sneak. If a player hasn't seens you a sneak attack option is possible. Tab = Ranged Weapon Toggle
Then buttons 1-4 could change style - Each style has a bonuse & negative against other styles. Somthing like... 1. Thrust style 2. Diagonal cut style 3. Horizontal cut style 4. Left / Right cut style
Or maybe broadsword, longsword and fencing styles.
Then skill points effect attack damage and hit success.
So.. it's a bit of reflexes, a bit of random luck and a bit of built up skill points. Would that be fun? I'm not really sure.
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I think it has less to do with tab targeting (while I generally dislike tab targeting) and more to do with auto-targeted skills. You being locked on to my character so that yours generally always fires in my direction is one thing. Me not being able to dodge your skill if I see it coming, and me getting hit just cause is something completely different. It really takes away from the fun in a game if the basic skill requirement is to stand there popping skills in the best sequence cause moving around does nothing anyway. Games like LOL it makes perfect sense(and even then you have a sense of dodgeability) but in a 3D MMO, there's really no excuse.
Why do the nations rage, and the people plot a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together.
Like I've always found it so lame that my character would get hit in an mmo, but a blurb would pop up saying, "dodge" or "Miss" or "block". On top of that, there's usually no type of stagger, stun, or skill cancel effect that comes along with being hit. It wouldn't be that hard to implement into a game.
Why do the nations rage, and the people plot a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together.
cant remember where but i think caspian said that the fighting will have a fighter game style (e.g. mortal combat) meaning that it comes down to players skill and how they counter combinations of course they are not just going to copy fighter games and they will make it more there style but they are planing on making it all about the players skill then they will worry about weapon damage
another thing to point out is that most people will have similar equipment you wont see people with almighty blades that slay dragons the quality of weapons and armor will be effected by the people who made it and there skill
but someone who is super skilled could kill a armored player with a rusted blade of course it would be difficult but it is possible
sorry this post is all over the place but i was just getting my thoughts down
"It's no longer about getting to level cap and pursuing the best gear. In CoE a player's skill - their timing, speed, and strategy - makes a difference. The combat system requires you to dodge, parry, and manage your stamina - not just spam buttons." - Kickstarter page
After thinking about combat I really think it should be like Skyrim. Personally the only combat I've liked in a long time is Skyrim. People bash it, but it's simple and fun, it sold a huge amounts of copies. People must like it. A game like Coe shouldn't have huge amounts of combos with a high degree of timing and strategy.
The Combat I've seen is niche. It tries to be realistic, it's slow and the animations are pretty bad. I haven't read anyone say "Amazing" or "fun".
Having to chain up combos, dodge and parry isn't fun. I liked it in the 90s when I was a teen playing Tekken or a child playing street fighter. Today those types of game only resonate with a small fan base. I think the modern rpg equivalent of Tekken is black desert online. A realistic Tekken or a realistic BDO, without the flashy animations and vast number of moves, will fail hard.
Having to time attacks is passive in a rpg setting. It's like you don't really want combat. People don't really parry in online games. It's difficult due to lag, it doesn't really give an advantage.
I think Coe is making a similar mistake to vanguard soh. In Vanguard there was very few npcs to kill. It was slow and outdated, it alienated lots of types of players with the need to group in slow dungeon crawls.
Judging by what I've read I get the impression there won't be much combat. Most people will join up, hunt for combat, find there isn't much to do, explore, perhaps build a home if it's not convoluted to do so and then leave. Only the really hardcore will stay to manage in the RTS part of the game. The rts part of the game, will really shine with lots of swords men who just want to mess things up.
I would love to see simple combat like Skyrim or Minecraft. With loads of creatures to hunt, monsters to fight and people to kill. Instead of using a complex combat system to make the game more realistic use implicit laws to to give the world life and diversity.
Surely a combat system like Skyrim will be a lot easier to create than trying to make what we've currently seen fun.
I like the artworks the devs have created. The environments look fun to explore. The ideas are great with the RTS dynamics. Combat doesn't have to be a vital part of the game for everyone but it's a core part of the game and should be enjoyable.
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Posted By Abyshay at 05:50 AM - Wed Feb 22 2017
I think it has less to do with tab targeting (while I generally dislike tab targeting) and more to do with auto-targeted skills. You being locked on to my character so that yours generally always fires in my direction is one thing. Me not being able to dodge your skill if I see it coming, and me getting hit just cause is something completely different. It really takes away from the fun in a game if the basic skill requirement is to stand there popping skills in the best sequence cause moving around does nothing anyway. Games like LOL it makes perfect sense(and even then you have a sense of dodgeability) but in a 3D MMO, there's really no excuse.
Yes, dodging, blocking and launching counter measures (silences, interrupts, cc in general) is something different, and it definitely requires skills (being able to anticipate attacks, and quickly and smartly react to them).
These are definitely important factors in well designed combat. This and theory crafting playing important part in forming your ability deck (meaning differently combined decks making a major impact on how battle can go).
And yes, combat should be designed in such a way so a lag does not play major role in battle outcome. If winner would be decided 90% based upon which opponent has better ping than you can just throw everything to trash.