COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
"Care Bears"

I've seen this term banded around quite a lot lately, and generally not portrayed in a pleasant manner either, so thought it's well overdue time to address it.

Firstly, I'll state that all player types can add value to a game, so this is no criticism of players who don't have interest in passive community gamplay.

There are many core player types that make up an MMO RPG. The term "care bear" is usually aimed at players who prefer to play as part of a friendly community. The focus is usually around building or character development, and quite often has little tolerance for "trolling or griefing". Usually there may be less emphasis on progression, but the sense of respect for other characters and property plays a stronger role.

What does this player type add to an RPG?

Firstly, a sense of community. For some players, community is of little interest. You go into a town to buy your supplies, but what is the glue that holds the people of that town together and supporting each other rather than fighting among themselves? The mindset usually leads to group players, picking complimentary skills and working together. This increases the opportunities to join parties and establish longer term friendships in game. Usually these player types don't much care about being seen as "the best" at what they do, or owning the finest of equipment, but most aim at least to see a sense of progression and a gradual improvement in their quality of "life" as a reward for their efforts.

In many games, including WoW, it was this wide base of the community that kept players coming back. In recent years, where games have targetted rewards purely at the higher end of more capable players and pushed up difficulty too far, it's presented a barrier to their progression. Combined with the pressured environment and stress at the higher end, it's led to many of these community "pins" falling out, and communities gradually falling apart. I've seen it happen more than once.

Interaction with "thieves" and other threats

Thankfully, the justice system within the game allows for player-driven resolution of some threats. Minor incidents will largely be shrugged off by the player base, though repeat occurences or trolling will be seen as far more damaging. This carried the threat of driving away these core players, and the cascade effect may then follow. As such, there will likely be a heavy reliance on the justice system and investigation.

Thieves for example, are often seen as freeloaders who can't be be bothered to put in hard work, but are happy to undermine the enjoyment for other players by taking their rewards.

As long as there is the perception of eventual "justice", and the degree of loss isn't too great, the appeal isn't likely to suffer too greatly.

Game growth and stability

Most MMOs rely on good numbers of players with a varied mindset to succeed. This would appear to be the case with Elyria too. Here, players need to provide food, equipment, clothing, build and more. Combat is a small proportion of the career base as a result. Any army in Elyria has to be well supplied to succeed.

As a result, the appeal for the would-be farmers and other crafters and gatherers has to remain. If the mindset adjusts so that theft is commonplace for example, and little that is earnt is kept securely without loss, the view will increasingly become that there is no point in trying. At that stage, the model collapses, and the armies die off too. A waste at the very least.

Summary

In short, "care bears" are a significant and key part of the player community. If you don't fit into that category, they will still most likely be a core part of the player base that you rely on to keep yourself functioning well. Work with such players, not against them, or it will likely be to your own detriment, and the detriment of the game's longer term success.

Trolling and griefing and never funny, and never popular, usually nothing more than an indication of the griefer's own lack of social skills, maturity or empathy.

Rest assured that many of us will be looking out for those of you that classify as "care bears", and aiming to make the game as friendly and as fair a place as we are able. If we can offer rewards, hire mercenaries and work to stamp very heavily on crime through the court system, rest assured that many of us will.

If you're considering Elyria, but are holding back as you're concerned about it falling apart, don't. Simply speak to a few of the nobility who are looking out for the common people, and we'll take care of you as best we can.


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2/26/2017 1:05:45 PM #1

You'll find a lot of players still used to garbage grinds holding onto that particular mentality. Generally, more mature players don't give people shit for not liking PvP, but the attitude itself might (key word: might) change if CoE and more games like it become the mainstay MMO experience on the market. MMOs at present don't generally allow for much of a non-combat playing experience. There's other stuff to do, but it's novelty features or side content. To the best of my knowledge, no other MMO's actually had interesting non-combat play, except possibly FFXIV. Once there's actually a fun, in-depth and (most importantly) valuable play experience for non-combat roles, people might start taking those roles seriously... if only because they need to if they want their community groups to survive.

The trash talk will, sadly, continue on the forums in the interim. I'm not a fan of it, but until the field changes, the flow of the river's not likely to.


To touch Divinity, one must be prepared to brave Reality.

2/26/2017 1:15:35 PM #2

Indeed. That's part of the novelty appeal for Elyria. The whole open-field non instanced build thing. Every RPG out there has combat, but this is one of the many features that's new.


2/26/2017 1:19:40 PM #3

If the devs pull off decent AI scripting for the NPCs then you shouldn't really be able to tell whether your farm is being burned down by NPC or PC bandits, there shouldn't really be so much of an emphasis on PVE vs PVP in this game.


2/26/2017 1:28:58 PM #4

I would like to add my 2 cents to that:

While people will work together, build community and focus on crafting, it does not mean that game will be utopia where everyone is a farmer and no-one is fighting. There will be people who enjoys PvP, will go to war, but they will not achieve their goals by attacking merchants, stealing in his own kingdom etc. Also if there won't be a possibility to steal anything or murder people, positions as bounty hunters and investigators will disappear as well. If game wants to be more or less realistic, crime is part of a daily life as well. That said it seems that term "care bear" is used by those people who wants to commit such activities as stealing and murder without consequence thinking that getting high level and high gear will make them unstoppable.

2/26/2017 2:08:02 PM #5

If the entire game and every player was primarily PvP focused there would literally be no game, it would descend into a dystopian hellhole quite quickly.


2/26/2017 2:11:30 PM #6

Generally when I've seen the term used on these forums at least it is in response to someone who wants the core design of the game to be changed to suit their particular play style.

A couple of the suggestions included ..

  • super NPC guards that can 1 hit people.

  • coloring people red who kill another player.

  • pve only servers

Now I have seen the term "greifer" applied to anyone who likes pvp on these forums. Even the homemade bartel test that was floating around used the term griefer for those who selected aggressive pvp answers in the test.

The truth is CoE will be what we the players make of it. And all play styles are needed for coe to succeed. Since there is a deemphasis on standard mmo mobs and respawning xp sources most likely the enemies pve folks hunt will end up being other players.

Without the farmer pvpers will starve. Without the pvpers there will be no raid bosses or any catalyst to drive the story.

2/26/2017 2:51:16 PM #7

Caspian words in an other post : here

I want to believe that there can be a decent amount of PvP in this game while the story is being played out but it is starting to seem like it isn't going to be that way.

Can you define PvP?

Currently the community for CoE is leaning towards the PvE crowd...

Generally speaking, other games define PvE and PvP in two broad categories. PvE is anything not requiring combat with another player and PvP being anything that requires combat with another player.

These are weak definitions in CoE. In CoE, PvP is defined as your ability to impact other players in a way that effects their competitive advantage over you.

This can range from economical, to physical, to social. In which case, CoE is far more 'PvP' based than most other MMOs to date. You can force someone out of a market, steal from them, decide not to teach them skills, spread rumors about them, lie about them, commit espionage against them, prevent them from completing contracts, and yes, even attack them. If you really wanted to, and were willing to pay the heavy price for it, you could even inflict them with grievous wounds and force them to Spirit Walk.

The point I'm trying to make is that virtually everything you do in CoE to 'get ahead' comes at the cost of someone else. You want to build a nice settlement with your friends? Excellent! But the resources you're collecting to do so is resources others won't have available. And if your settlement starts to grow in reputation, it could even draw PCs and NPCs from neighboring settlements to yours, lowering their income and reducing their wealth.

That aside, if I were going to define PvE in CoE, I'd say it's the activities you'd do as a result of the dynamic story engine. But here's the kicker... the story engine is designed to create content by putting the players against one another. So much of the 'PvE' content that people will experience will still be PvP in the way I've defined it above.

That's not to say that occasional dungeons won't pop up with cool encounters. But CoE isn't a game where people either go do raids or go do arena/battlegrounds. Sure, we could create some story arc where skeletons rise from the graves and come to trounce you in the nearby settlement.... but we're just as likely to create a story arc which would encourage the neighboring settlement to come trounce you instead.

right now with all of the 'Caspian will protect us' thoughts from that crowd

The crowds are wrong if that's what they're saying. I'm the DM, and I am writing a story to challenge and entertain you. But I make no promises of your survival.

Can SBS explain what their actions would be if all of the PvE backers quit playing due to the possible chaotic world this game has the promise of.

This is not a game for people who don't want to be impacted by others. That said, there's a difference between the various types of conflict, and it's true, we discourage unplanned, random physical attacks against others, and the laws and punishments will be harsh - just like in our world.

If the 'PvPers' can't stretch their imagination beyond just walking around smacking people with weapons, unless they're very good at both combat and not getting caught, they're going to quickly find this is not the game for them.

CoE is neither a traditional PvE or PvP game, it is a game about conflicts, social, political, commercial, genetic, military, religious, technologic ...... in a world limited in ressources where actions have consequences all will be to some point involved in some form of conflictual situation with other human controlled character(s).

Combat conflict is one of those but only a small part of the game. The game is about being smart, bold adventurous, cautious, dedicated, vile, traitorous, violent, compassionate..... about being humas in a coherent world, be part of of a living and ever evolving world!


2/26/2017 2:58:43 PM #8

Posted By Malais at 3:11 PM - Sun Feb 26 2017

Generally when I've seen the term used on these forums at least it is in response to someone who wants the core design of the game to be changed to suit their particular play style.

A couple of the suggestions included ..

  • super NPC guards that can 1 hit people.

  • coloring people red who kill another player.

  • pve only servers

Exactly, and lets not forget suggestions about dismembering the criminals, permanently branding the criminal body parts, etc.

Term "care bear" isn't applied to players that focus on friendly play.

Term "care bear" is applied to players who constantly complain on forums about every part of non-consensual PvP, and keep requesting from developers to change the game so that it punishes as much as possible anyone who would engage in such form of PvP.

Such players also very often throw all kind of insults to PvP players, calling them griefers, trolls, filth of gaming population etc. Compared to those words, term "care bear" is practically a compliment.

Now lets see how many minuses I get.


2/26/2017 3:01:10 PM #9

Never mess with care bears. They shoot light from their belly symbols!


β€œAn armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” ― Robert A. Heinlein

2/26/2017 3:02:41 PM #10

@Markof - ty for posting that -, tried finding it the other day to try and respond to somebody's comment that he wanted all PvP to be instanced as if in a different universe totally disconnected from CoE lol

i'd be obliged if you can post the link for my future reference

ty


2/26/2017 3:32:00 PM #11

Hopefully there arent extremedcaused by excessive care bears or murder hobos


2/26/2017 3:44:09 PM #12

Everyones interpretation is different.

To me a care bear is someone who isn't willing to put it on the line, that includes the majority of PvPers.

There will be people in this game who never use a weapon but risk everything.

Carebearing is just a risk averse mindset.


2/26/2017 4:17:10 PM #13

Posted By Primavera at 09:44 AM - Sun Feb 26 2017

Everyones interpretation is different.

To me a care bear is someone who isn't willing to put it on the line, that includes the majority of PvPers.

There will be people in this game who never use a weapon but risk everything.

Carebearing is just a risk averse mindset.

Well said. I think when/if you see the term "care bear" it refers to those people who see all forms of pvp (including Caspians def above) as griefing.


2/26/2017 5:03:06 PM #14

I never thought someone could actually get offended by being called a carebear

P.S. Shout out to the mod, keep up the good work!


You may have erased my signature, but you can't corner the dorner

2/26/2017 5:12:37 PM #15

Also, OP I highly doubt anyone really cares about your thread, you think you need to write a Ph.D. Thesis when expo doesn't even let you PVP for the first month or so?

RIP Oracle and Mist Haven county, your carebears will never be forgotten


You may have erased my signature, but you can't corner the dorner

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