Posted By Jouten at 10:27 AM - Fri Apr 21 2017
Posted By Vucar at 1:19 PM - Fri Apr 21 2017
Multiple devs have stated multiple times that combat is getting a complete revamp. Pointing to that demo and saying "look, this is the direction they're going in, get used to it" is not realistic and you know it.
So you're going to completely disregard what kind of intent they're going to go for? Where he clearly says, getting jumped by 3 or 4 is something to walk away from?
You're hoping for them to go for your Darkfall combat. Go ahead. All their tech demos point to these duels with animation locks tied to combat movement. They could have easily set up a split animation in those tech demos, but they went for full animation, thrust, slice and shield bash. So setting up the assumption they're going for the Darkfall style of mass PvP action "is not realistic and you know it."
Crowfall started out with animation locks on melee combat too. After massive outcry and universal hatred of it, they got rid of it and went to split motion melee. Its a lesson they learned the hard way that CoE could learn the easy way, so yes, I am hoping they skip to the part where they trash this terrible idea.
Posted By MReal at 10:23 AM - Fri Apr 21 2017
Posted By Vucar at 1:19 PM - Fri Apr 21 2017
Yes. Combat animation can fluidly work with movement in games limited to 3v3s or 4v4s. These are match set ups. Very few things are going on besides these small duels or group fights. This is not a translatable experience to something like a siege or even a large scale skirmish in a sandbox mmo.
...except for the fact that, as I stated already, black desert online has exactly this type of combat and can have battles with hundreds of people. Not that I think the game should be like BDO but the point is that animation based attacks can work just fine with many people.
Simply stating "this can't work" repeatedly doesn't make it true.
I've played BDO as well. I won't even say the combat isn't good or enjoyable. Its fluid and fast and yes, it can accommodate a large number of player actors, but you're missing a critical element of why this works in BDO.
Black Desert Online has no friendly fire
You can spam wide-arcing attacks and massive aoe field magic and never have to consider your friends. It makes the entire discussion of animation lock vs free-motion combat moot because all of the psychology of how you approach pvp changes when you clump up into a ball of friendlies and enemies and suddenly you can hurt both.
We had this discussion on the Crowfall forums as well. When animation lock was still a thing, you'd get big balls of melee archetypes hammering it out while support casters threw heals into the mob. It didn't matter that no one could move or had to think about being stuck while attacking because their attacks could only harm enemies and their heals could only benefit friendlies.
Like i said before: Crowfall has gone through all of the pains of developing action combat that CoE can bypass simply by avoiding a repeat of history. Their combat systems are not meant to be the same -- I know this. That doesn't mean there aren't lessons to be learned.