COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
General Warfare- Tactics & Strategies

I know, "Another thread about warfare." But I was thinking of different avenues to pursue a casus belli via warfare. Now, I think we all can agree that the classic army will consist of footmen, archers, (and when mounted combat get implemented) calvary. Of course, you have to incorporate logisticians, intelligence agents, scouts and all of the sub-commanders (lieutenants, etc). Okay, since we got that out of the way, let's consider going to war. So, we just gather up some guys and gals and start marching, right?

No.

Why? Because without a plan or (some of you military folks will know) an OPORD (Operation Order), your troops will not know the tasks of the mission.

Of course, you can make a simple plan of 'Attack Town A' and everyone will attack that town, but how will you coordinate your troops when the adversary performs a counter attack to you flank? You may leave it to your sub-commanders of that element, but how will they know the commander's intent (that being YOU)? When you create your plan for the attack, commander's should give his/her sub-commanders a specific task and the sub-commanders must come up with a series of implied tasks.

For example, if a commader's specific task is to take Town A(specified task), the sub-commander of the vanguard must secure passage of a bridge that leads to Town A (implied task), in order for the main body to cross said bridge to advance on Town A.

While I have your attention, towns will be VERY, VERY important in warfare. For a few reasons:

1.) Your army needs to eat, and unless you have an endless supply train and funds, your army will eventually starve. Now, you can supplement the need for supplies by paying survivalist to feed your army, but that ties into funds, biome and available flora/fauna.

2.) Town are normally tied to one or two (maybe more) roads. This will allow your troops quicker avenues of approach to and from the battlefield. Also, it may limit your adversaries ability to trade in goods, which will limit his or her ability fund troops.

I will add more material into this thread at a later time. Such as Key Terrain and how it affects you and your adversary, but let me hear what y'all think so far.

Update 242057ZAPR17

Terrain analysis, the most basic and essential of the commander's planning tools. Now, in the following images, I will attempt to show you how to use the terrain to your advantage and how it will affect your movement and maneuvers on and off the battlefield. To start off, your cartographers will be key to your planning. Now, in order to get these detailed maps, you can hire a freelance cartographer to draw up some maps of your intented objective. Or simply buy the maps of the area. Now, when you look at this map (depending on how detailed or skilled the map maker is), it will look like a jumble to someone isn't familiar with maps. That's fine,  I'll show you how to highlight all the obstacles on your map. What this will allow you to do, is move a army from point A to point B as efficiently or as steathily as possible.

In this first image, is a photo of a topographical map. As you can see, it is a sea of green and scribbles of blue throughout the map.

Now, as you begin highlighting the terrain obstacles, which consists of: vegatation, waterways, buildings/mann made objects (walls, fences, etc), and steep contour/cliffsides.

Vegatation; you'll mark in green with either a cross hatched marking, which represents SEVERELY restriction terrain (meaning, your movement will be a crawl or just halted) or a slashed marking. Now, a slashed mark merely means it will slow movement, but it's still traversable. What's the difference between the two? For example, if you had to move through an alpine forested biome, it would be SEVERELY restricted on the mountainous foresty areas, while simply restricted in the lower, flatter forested areas.

Waterways; are marked in blue. Now, this could be anything from a gullies and swamps(which can be crossed,, depending on depth, but not a regular pace) which is marked with a slash* to a rivers, which is **cross hatched. Since I'm on the subject of rivers, ferries and bridges are key to secure. For the main purpose of controlling the avenues into that battlespace and keeping your supply lines continuously flowing.

Mann made building; will almost always be cross hatched black. Reason being is go through a town or city will reduce your army's movement SEVERELY. If time is of the essence and that town is not your objective, bypass it. If that town is in between you and your objective, take it. It will allow you to relieve some logistical  pressure on your army, allowing you to keep your own food stores in reserve.

Now, this is a rough sketch of what your map should look like. As you can see, the vegatation in this area is thick, on top of the fact you have some steep terrain features. Now, we don't know how detailed maps will be in CoE,  but we still can get an idea. For example, we al know water flows downhill. Even without a topographical map, we can see the various waterways scribbled out along this ridge. On top of the fact, you will have scouts available to confirm that: A.) this map is genuine, because your scout will have to have eyes on that area and B.) update you on any changes to the area, that wasn't recorded on the map (such as that town on the top right was destroyed,  etc).

 

Lastly, with the map complete, you can almost spot right away the different avenues of approach to your objective (Town A, top right). Now, roads will always be your fastest avenues, but you cannot always rely on roads to be uncontested. So, I would like you to look closely at that middle avenue, and you'll be able to see the trails throughout the ridgeline. Those trails, though slower to traverse, allow your army to move relatively steathily. Of course, roads and trails can be contested, so be sure to utilize  your scouts before maneuvering to your objective

I will post more updates later. Till then, discuss what or how you would use the terrain to your advantage.

NOTE: I apologize for the graphic intense images. I had to find a hi-res map to work on.

Update 251951ZAPR17

Spies. An absolute necessity for any commander. Some of you maybe thinking,"I would never use a spy! I'm more honorable than that!" But if that commander was pitted against his adversary; who had no qualms about using spies to gather information, he is sure to lose. What makes spies so powerful on and off the battlefield?

Your spies have the capacity to gather enemy troop dispositions, plans, strengths and weaknesses. Of course, you may also use your spies to feed your adversaries false information, assassination of commanders, or even gather information of enemy spies in your lands.

So, we can agree that with minimal effort and resources, we can gain so much more from our investment. So, how can we embed our spies in the adversary's ranks and command tents? If your enemy is known for its trade hubs, then camouflage your spies as a merchant. If  your adversary is a known warmonger, than your spy must take the place of a soldier.  With this basic principle, your spies will be able to blend in with his surrounding, much like camouflage.

Now, if locate an enemy spy in your lands, don't kill or arrest him. Instead, turn him to your side. In order to recruit an enemy spy to your side, use this simple and common theory which can be summed up with the acronym M.I.C.E.

Money: majority of spies can be enticed to join your side by offering a generous amount of money for his/her time and effort.

Ideology:  under this facet of motivation,  hearts and minds can play a factor in being able to recruit an enemy spy. Of course, you must be able to hold the moral high ground over your adversary. On top of that, patriotism for what you or your adversary's kingdom stands for could sway a spy to support your cause.

Coercion: Now, this facet deals more with blackmail or threats, which I don't foresee taking place in CoE, so you can ignore 'C'.

Ego: This one is the rarer form of recruiting a spy to your side, though not unheard of.  This entails stoking the spy's ego, making him/her feel important. They stop being a cog in the machine, and are elevated to the status of the person turning the wheel.

  I will update this at a later time, but please discuss how you would use spies to support your military and political means.

*Update 262002ZAPR17 *

 

Asymmetric vs Conventional Warfare. Or Guerilla vs rank-and-file warfare. Whichever terminology you may use, warfare will and should be conducted on all fronts.  In order to win a war, you must break your enemies will to fight. Battles alone will not achieve total victory. So, let's delve into how best to utilize all assets available to you, as the commander. Now, I'm going to break this section down into two parts: Asymmetric  and Conventional Forces since it is alot of information to take in.

 

Let's review what rank-and-file troops will be available to you and how best to use them.

 

Dismounts: Dismounts will be your bread and butter of your army. These troops will cheaper to arm, and can traverse almost any terrain. Of course, your dismounts will be a mix of different weaponry and depending on your particular unit, will fill different roles. For example, you may have pikemen or spearmen at your flanks, to deter a calvary charge on your flanks.  Also, archers fall into the dismounts category and can be used to weaken your adversaries lines with a barrage of arrows. For your heavily armored foes, macemen would be your better bet to bypass that pesky armor. We don't know enough of the game mechanics to strategize in detail which weapon will counter what. So, let's break down the Pros  and Con's of dismounts

 

Advantages:

-Cheap to arm and field (give your peasants sharpened pitchforks and leathers and Voila! You have a infantry unit)

-Versatile  (dismounts can be equipped with different weapons for specialized tasks or purposes. Need a unit that can withstand alot of damage? Provide them heavy armor and shields while advancing on enemy lines, with your lighter forces following and assume from behind.)

-Traverse any terrain (dismount are not limited to a specific terrain or environment to be properly utilized. Dismounts can move through just about any kind of terrain, as long as it is feasible)

 

Disadvantages:

-Require enormous amount of command and control (since this is the majority of your army, with the capacity of fulfilling different roles on the battlefield, having to control and coordinate such a force can be difficult. It mitigate your troops becoming jumbled or underutilized,  rely on your sub-commanders to control their units.)

-Slow moving (though dismounts can go anywhere, they do it at a very slow pace.)

 

Mounted: Your calvary will your most expensive, but (once mounted combat is in game) deadliest troops. These troops will be a shining example of your army's power and influence.  Simply fielding an element of calvary will shake your adversaries resolve to oppose you. The maneuverability of your calvary will allow you to adjust to your enemy's change in tactics or formations. Calvary should be primarily used to attack weakened lines or flanks. If fielded alone and without protection, they will be targeted.

 

Advantages:

-Mobile and maneuverable (calvary can cover great distances in a relatively short time. Being able to perform charges on the enemy, create a chink in enemy lines. This allows your main forces to exploit that weakness for greater effect)

-Shock and Awe (fielding a unit of shinynplated knights on destriers will show your enemy your power and wealth and may break his resolve to oppose you on the battlefield. This is more of a morale factor, but morale will still have a place in CoE, because players may not wish to fight against such an obvious advantage.)

-Difficult to target(when I say difficult to target, what I mean is if a unit is engaged with calvary, a mounted soldier's hitbox is somewhat covered by his mount. Of course the way around that is with a reach weapon, but that requires certain equipment (Ie a spear or pike))

 

Disadvantages:

-Expensive (funding a calvary unit will come with a hefty price, and that price isn't just money. Feeding, barding and training one warhorse will require a lot of attention from one trainer, now multiply that by twenty. It adds up, not to mention, the maintenance costs to keep your mounts at peak efficiency.)

-Restricted by terrain (though your calvary can cross open ground with little to no effort, anything else will slow your calvary down, nullifying one of the greatest assets to mounted troops.)

 

Siege Equipment: These are your specialized weapons in your armament. These weapons allow you break a hardened fortification with little use outside intended design. Though, catapults, trebuchets and scorpions can be used by a defending force to counter and destroy your siege equipment.

Advantages

-Force multiplyer (enables your forces to scale, tear down or simply break your adversaries fortification. You can use a battering ram to break down castle doors, instead of hacking it down, which leaves your troops vulnerable to enemy fire. Or use catapults and trebuchets to break open a hole in a wall to allow your forces an entryway into your enemies city. Sieges are time consuming and the quicker you can overtake your foe, the better. Otherwise, you'll have to contend with desertion from your army)

 

Disadvantages

-Cumbersome (depending on if you can assemble or disassemble your equipment, transporting your siege equipment will most likely be restricted to roads or relatively flat, open land.)

-Little use outside it's design (siege weapons and equipment have very little usage outside it's intended use. Siege engineers will be few and far between, due to the limited and specialized vocational uses.)

 

Again, this is just the conventional forces, I'm going over right now. I'll go over guerilla forces later

080748ZMAY2017

 

Guerilla warfare. A form of warfare that utilizes a smaller, inferior force to contest a larger, better equipped force. When things seem daunting and you can see no way to victory, throw down your banners, sigils, and coat of arms and take up the mantle of shadows and deceit.  These weapons will dash your foes from before you, without having to meet him in the field. Attack what is weak and shy away from what is strong.  If your foe is from far off lands, attack his supply trains. If your enemy is tired from marching, ambush his flank and harass his lines.  Victory is not certain by mere numbers alone. You, as the weaker force, must use your wits and mobility to hamstring your enemy. Guerilla warfare can be broken down in two actions categories: direct action and indirect action.

 

With direct action, you'll be primarily focusing on ambushes, raiding enemy camps, attacking supply lines. When you use the direct method, mobility will be your main weapon when taking on a larger, stronger force. Being able to hit your target and leaving the scene as quickly as possible, will leave your enemy weak.  If your enemy has no intelligence or scout reports, he'll  be forced to spread his forces thin trying to protect everything. This leaves your enemy at a disadvantage,  that you can exploit by focusing all your forces on his minimally enforced piece of terrain or village.

 

With indirect action, this is targeting your enemy's land, villages or people.  When you take indirect action, your attacking his people's will to carry on with his war.  If you take away his people's will, you attack his support for the war, when you attack the support of the war, you attack his men's morale. Indirect action is a long game to play, but eventually when his people clamor for the halt of attacks on their farms and outlying villages, the enemy has to do one of three things. First, he has to withdraw his army to focus on the skirmishes on his land. Two, he continues his advance on your land,  but at a cumulative disadvantage as time moves on. And three,  he eventually  calls for a truce,  to recover economically from the burning of his fields and villages.  

 

Either of these actions are viable avenues to pursue, but be aware that both have disadvantages. If you are strapped for manpower, this maybe your only avenue to pursue or simply give up. Your choice.


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4/24/2017 12:18:28 PM #1

Posted By Un_muted at

While I have your attention, towns will be VERY, VERY important in warfare.

Warfare in CoE both excites and being a future mayor frightens me. The thought of a foreign army ransacking my granary...

Obviously, if it's a small invading force then we will stand our ground and fight. But if it's a Duchy busting legion then what hope do I have?


[EU] The Town of Farwatch Selene (Hrothi) - Demalion/Dae Erath/Ash County - Masonry, Scouting/Cartography Animal Husbandry, Agriculture Smithing, Tailoring. Light RP, Casual & PvP Welcome.

4/24/2017 12:36:11 PM #2

Posted By ZeroCool at 2:18 PM - Mon Apr 24 2017

Posted By Un_muted at

While I have your attention, towns will be VERY, VERY important in warfare.

Warfare in CoE both excites and being a future mayor frightens me. The thought of a foreign army ransacking my granary...

Obviously, if it's a small invading force then we will stand our ground and fight. But if it's a Duchy busting legion then what hope do I have?

Sink with the ship? Or surrender and provide what they need?

Onto OPs post.

I like it! I'm not a military man myself (might be in the future) and this really shines some Light on what will be required in the game

Keep up the good work m8!


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4/24/2017 5:15:23 PM #3

Posted By ZeroCool at 10:18 PM - Mon Apr 24 2017

Warfare in CoE both excites and being a future mayor frightens me. The thought of a foreign army ransacking my granary...

Obviously, if it's a small invading force then we will stand our ground and fight. But if it's a Duchy busting legion then what hope do I have?

easy Find out how far they are out if u have time load up the wagons with food and supplies and retreat to your counts castile :)

more time u have the more u can move and prep for the war.

but by no means would u want ur town to be sacked like that but its war, its not about ur likes or not like its just about what happens.

the idea is to have good scouts and a relay system of spare horses to your counts lands and for ur count to do a relay system to your dukes lands.

maybe even a Signal fire system this way the entire KD could be advised of the invasion within a few hrs... (also Discord and voip will help)

but yes its simple do u give the enemy food or do u take it or burn it. these are Very very hard calls but i am sure that ur Count/Duke/King will do somthing to help u get back on your feet if ur doing somthing that will hurt the enemy.

seeing my feilds burn would be heart braking in the extreme...


Click Banner To Visit County. Join me on Discord: https://discord.gg/V6aCA2X

4/24/2017 5:33:05 PM #4

I'm interested in reading the post on what someone think the defense to this would be...Since I have been here there's been tons of "starve them out" post but haven't seen one on town defense.

4/24/2017 6:44:22 PM #5

Towns will have walls of there own, especially cities, it would be stupid to have undefended towns, while they might be as fortified as strongholds they will still be formidable siege targets.


4/24/2017 9:00:38 PM #6

Updated: Basic Terrain Analysis.


https://discord.gg/esT7wMN

4/24/2017 9:05:10 PM #7

Posted By Maulvorn at 8:44 PM - Mon Apr 24 2017

Towns will have walls of there own, especially cities, it would be stupid to have undefended towns, while they might be as fortified as strongholds they will still be formidable siege targets.

That might be true for towns and above, but not so much for villages and hamlet's. But it's good that you mention walls, because that gives the defended a clear advantage over his enemies. Many times in history was an attacking army dashed against a formidable wall with capable troops to defend it.


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4/24/2017 9:31:54 PM #8

Sun Tzu's Art of War

http://web.mit.edu/~dcltdw/AOW/toc.html


4/24/2017 11:24:16 PM #9

Posted By mandrake1980 at 1:15 PM - Mon Apr 24 2017

Posted By ZeroCool at 10:18 PM - Mon Apr 24 2017

Warfare in CoE both excites and being a future mayor frightens me. The thought of a foreign army ransacking my granary...

Obviously, if it's a small invading force then we will stand our ground and fight. But if it's a Duchy busting legion then what hope do I have?

easy Find out how far they are out if u have time load up the wagons with food and supplies and retreat to your counts castile :)

more time u have the more u can move and prep for the war.

but by no means would u want ur town to be sacked like that but its war, its not about ur likes or not like its just about what happens.

the idea is to have good scouts and a relay system of spare horses to your counts lands and for ur count to do a relay system to your dukes lands.

maybe even a Signal fire system this way the entire KD could be advised of the invasion within a few hrs... (also Discord and voip will help)

but yes its simple do u give the enemy food or do u take it or burn it. these are Very very hard calls but i am sure that ur Count/Duke/King will do somthing to help u get back on your feet if ur doing somthing that will hurt the enemy.

seeing my feilds burn would be heart braking in the extreme...

Retreat is an option. On the other hand if you have defensive works around your settlement call for reinforcements from your Count and pin the attackers in place until the Count and possible Duke send their field force to oust the invaders. by the current DJ's fortifications are like buildings, they will need siege weapons to destroy them. A raid or bandit group will not likely have these. It will all depend on how big the force is and how much warning you have of the attack. Defensive scouting will be a must for protecting settlements.


Mayor, Settlement of Otterbear Creek, County of Sagehaven, Duchy of Mytharbor, Kingdom of Alesia. Friend Code: C3A1F2

A good commander knows when to fight, a great commander knows when not too.

4/24/2017 11:39:23 PM #10

Posted By Stoutheart at 01:24 AM - Tue Apr 25 2017

Posted By mandrake1980 at 1:15 PM - Mon Apr 24 2017

Posted By ZeroCool at 10:18 PM - Mon Apr 24 2017

Warfare in CoE both excites and being a future mayor frightens me. The thought of a foreign army ransacking my granary...

Obviously, if it's a small invading force then we will stand our ground and fight. But if it's a Duchy busting legion then what hope do I have?

easy Find out how far they are out if u have time load up the wagons with food and supplies and retreat to your counts castile :)

more time u have the more u can move and prep for the war.

but by no means would u want ur town to be sacked like that but its war, its not about ur likes or not like its just about what happens.

the idea is to have good scouts and a relay system of spare horses to your counts lands and for ur count to do a relay system to your dukes lands.

maybe even a Signal fire system this way the entire KD could be advised of the invasion within a few hrs... (also Discord and voip will help)

but yes its simple do u give the enemy food or do u take it or burn it. these are Very very hard calls but i am sure that ur Count/Duke/King will do somthing to help u get back on your feet if ur doing somthing that will hurt the enemy.

seeing my feilds burn would be heart braking in the extreme...

Retreat is an option. On the other hand if you have defensive works around your settlement call for reinforcements from your Count and pin the attackers in place until the Count and possible Duke send their field force to oust the invaders. by the current DJ's fortifications are like buildings, they will need siege weapons to destroy them. A raid or bandit group will not likely have these. It will all depend on how big the force is and how much warning you have of the attack. Defensive scouting will be a must for protecting settlements.

I will like to say, it would take a great deal of time to field a sizable army (even if they were NPCs) and march them across a barony (I believe to cross a barony took up to two hours on foot and 15 minutes on mount). So, it would take quite awhile to pin your foes in one spot, till reinforcements came. Unless, you had prior warning of the army marching toward your settlement. Even if that were the case, it would take a great deal of coordination (Discord/Vent) to assemble your army.


https://discord.gg/esT7wMN

4/24/2017 11:52:27 PM #11

You've failed to take one very important thing into account: this is the internet. Not only the internet, but an MMO.

The vast majority of players will be unable to attain the level of discipline needed for that level of organization.

I'm sure as hell going to try to make it work, but I don't have high hopes.


4/25/2017 1:26:06 AM #12

Posted By Scheneighnay at 01:52 AM - Tue Apr 25 2017

You've failed to take one very important thing into account: this is the internet. Not only the internet, but an MMO.

The vast majority of players will be unable to attain the level of discipline needed for that level of organization.

So, we're going to ignore B-R5RB massacre? Well, let's go into something small scale, such as a WoW 60 person raid. Then multiply that raid by 2 or 3. That, in of itself, would be sufficient numbers to give a barony a run for its money. What do you think?


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4/25/2017 1:29:12 AM #13

60 man raid is far from small scale


4/25/2017 1:35:36 AM #14

Posted By Un_muted at 4/25/2017 1:26:06 AM

Posted By Scheneighnay at 01:52 AM - Tue Apr 25 2017

You've failed to take one very important thing into account: this is the internet. Not only the internet, but an MMO.

The vast majority of players will be unable to attain the level of discipline needed for that level of organization.

So, we're going to ignore B-R5RB massacre? Well, let's go into something small scale, such as a WoW 60 person raid. Then multiply that raid by 2 or 3. That, in of itself, would be sufficient numbers to give a barony a run for its money. What do you think?

B-R5RB was a glorified zerg.


4/25/2017 1:35:44 AM #15

anyone remember how many people it took to take down sleeper tomb in eq?