COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
A quick heads up about MMORPG.com forum
+4

I just want to give a quick heads up about an MMORPG.com discussion that could get a really bad reputation for COE if not handled: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/463829/coe-plans-to-allow-rmt-gold-sellers-during-the-live-game


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5/4/2017 5:17:59 PM #106
-4

Posted By Pitsen at 03:12 AM - Fri May 05 2017

You realize there is a "ALL Q&A Transcripts" in that topic?

No, I didn't read through all the links. I just saw that you sent me to a library of links and moved on. If you link me the appropriate section I'll look it up

Also... you didnt add in that quote till recently... you editted your comment, so lets not pretend I should've seen it until now.

EDIT: Your quote isn't what you said it was. Caspian only says that cheating on skills is an example of autonomy that isn't allowed. There was nothing there about no botting being allowed.


My friend code: 4F7B5A

5/4/2017 5:20:04 PM #107
+0

You haven't but ok.

The main difference between regular trade and rwt is that regular trade is smaller packages (not bulk) local, skill based and not legally bound.

  • Using RWT you are selling globally. IRL days in travel time are possible. Trading normally at most is going to take >20m. Your not gonna be travelling from vornair to Boardweall...

  • Your selling, storing and maintaining substantially less. If you have thousands of irl cash worth of iron sitting somewhere your a target. If you have 50 in-game currency you are a much smaller target and don't need the storage/crew/resources to transport as much.

  • Items made from proffessions like blacksmithing will require you to physically play the game to gain skill through the player based challenged. So the only thing you will be able to sell is gatheres mat's. Even then you need to level gathering skills to not damage their collection/quality.

  • If something happens to your transit in the game, you cannot be legally bound irl. If you make an agreement out of game when the game doesn't ban it's use you can be legally prosecuted irl.


Discord: Julius#7218

5/4/2017 5:26:45 PM #108
-2

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 03:20 AM - Fri May 05 2017

You haven't but ok.

I have, stop lying.

Why can an in game trader travel from Vornair to Boardwell to sell their wares, but a RWT can't? That makes absolutely no sense. Again, repeating myself, because you're avoiding what I'm saying on purpose. WHY do you think there is a difference between a real world trader bringing some ore (for example) and a trader coming with some boots..? There is absolutely no difference in terms of travelling.

"Thousands of IRL cash of iron" Yeah and there is the tell, just like the other guy who has been lecturering me. You have no idea how RWT works. No one is stashing "thousands of dollars worth of iron" ya nugget... Usually players do it in increments, they might do $50 at time a time. You really convinced yourself that individuals are making thousands from ore? LOL

Yes professions have skill challenges. And repeating myself again, you've convinced yourself that some how a RWT can't do them. Yes. They can. Just as easy as you can.

LOL PROSECUTED IRL? Dude, the whole way through this convo you've been making stuff up on the fly and conjuring things into reality so that reality biases you. Unfortunately, there is no such bloody thing as people getting prosecuted for their in game cart getting robbed because someone payed you a 50 on paypal for some iron.

What. A. Joke.


On that hilarious end note, I'll be heading off for the night. I can't believe I had to deal with these guys for so long... LMAO

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 03:20 AM - Fri May 05 2017

>If you have thousands of irl cash worth of iron sitting somewhere

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 03:20 AM - Fri May 05 2017

>If you make an agreement out of game when the game doesn't ban it's use you can be legally prosecuted irl.


My friend code: 4F7B5A

5/4/2017 5:32:57 PM #109
+1

Why are you guys humoring him with 8 pages?

5/4/2017 5:35:32 PM #110
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Still haven't but ok.

An single in-game trader can't consistently like an RWT trader is forced. They both are unable, you assuming that a regular player can is another obvious misunderstanding of the game mechanics.

Doing it in increments is even more complicated so I went with stashing lol. Who's mine are you going to? Mining out an unowned and/or owned mine is high-key illegal lol. So saying that you are doing it MULTIPLE times? good luck XD.

And repeating myself again, your assuming they can when sbs is designing against that and that being one of the main purposes of skill challenges...

Oh really? Nobody has ran into legal issues selling a service for money then not giving the service? ESPECIALLY USING PAYPAL. XDXDXXDXDEFOPIJAWARFIWGT490JHUFESOIDE

Lord help this man.


Discord: Julius#7218

5/4/2017 5:36:49 PM #111
+1

Posted By Sagan at 5:41 PM - Thu May 04 2017

Posted By chipla at 02:33 AM - Fri May 05 2017

Posted By Sagan at 5:16 PM - Thu May 04 2017

Do you think CoE shouldn't have pay to win?

I'm on the fence I am a person with both time and money so it doesn't matter to me either way.

~ignoring the point about gold farming because its just mischaracterising what I've said~

You're neutral? You don't know if you want pay to win or if you don't?

More like I don't care. I can afford to play this game competitively if it's pay to win and I can afford to play it if I have to sink 30hrs a week into it in order to remain competitive. I pointed out where I draw the line at on developer run cash shops and aside from that, the whole pay to win argument literally has no affect on me.

The reasons I draw the line where I do are because I have played (and GMed) MMOs where the closed economy wasn't respected and saw how the economy failed thereafter.

I don't believe it, I'm sorry. I've seen your posts here before, you're a rational person, there is no way in hell you would want to see opposing Kings paying $500 for resources to forge weapons that will help them invade others. I think you're just playing it safe and letting me cop all the grief.

I'm sorry that you feel that I am somehow letting you take the flak when I'm playing it safe but I honestly don't have an issue with people in this game exchanging their time for money.

I can't say I'd be happy if some king paid $500 to buy up all the resources in an area but I also have a suspicion that several kings, dukes and counts in CoE would be sorely tempted to do that even if RMTs were banned by the terms of service. (That btw for those of you paying attention to my previous arguments is borderline libel, I am protected in this instance by the word suspicion and by not naming names.)

This is out-of-the-ordinary behaviour for them and I suspect its because like a lot of the carebears in the forums they envision this game to be almost immune to any 'bad' things that can happen just because of the way the game works. People are much smarter than you give them credit for. Breaking these boundries will be a mini-game for them. If you have seen what I've seen, you would understand what they're getting themselves into.

I agree with you that there is a tendency in this community to see CoE as immune to the issues that plague other MMOs and on certain aspects, there is a naivety as to the fact that most MOPs are scrotes.

However, I just can't see RMTs becoming the issue that they are in other games - or at least not enough of an issue that SbS should spend their time and effort (and money) in developing ways to stop them. If I'm wrong I'll admit it but I really just don't see it ans an issue.

Embracing the RWT community is by extension embracing a botting community, and on top of that it creates pay to win scenarios that would've been handled much better by SBS rather than some shady website.

The issue with discussing botting is at what point does an OPC become a bot.


Coming Soon(tm)

5/4/2017 5:37:27 PM #112
+0

Posted By Sagan at 7:17 PM - Thu May 04 2017

Posted By Pitsen at 03:12 AM - Fri May 05 2017

You realize there is a "ALL Q&A Transcripts" in that topic?

No, I didn't read through all the links. I just saw that you sent me to a library of links and moved on. If you link me the appropriate section I'll look it up

Also... you didnt add in that quote till recently... you editted your comment, so lets not pretend I should've seen it until now.

EDIT: Your quote isn't what you said it was. Caspian only says that cheating on skills is an example of autonomy that isn't allowed. There was nothing there about no botting being allowed.

I edited the post not to insert a quote but change the spelling

The example to my understanding of english says about preventing automatomating skills which would be one thing making botting better then OPC


5/4/2017 5:37:33 PM #113
+0

Posted By Lunaus at 7:32 PM - Thu May 04 2017

Why are you guys humoring him with 8 pages?

Because even Jesus made the blind man see ;)

Its worth the effort. Not for him, but maybe for other guys concerned about bots or RWTs in this game. They can then decide themselves which side is more reasonable in its arguments.


5/4/2017 5:38:22 PM #114
+0

Posted By Sagan at 09:47 AM - Thu May 04 2017

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 11:34 PM - Thu May 04 2017

EDIT: ALSO, it hasn't ruined a game. Your definition of ruin vs mine and the devs are off. The only reason you think they are ruined is because you see their ads.

This is total nonsense, Takeda. I had just said that swarms of bots prevented players from getting basic resources and ruined the in-game lore and immersion thanks to hundreds of them sprinting by you to catch the next resource spawn and your response is seriously "the only reason you think they are ruined is because you see their ads"? Really mate? That is beyond petty

Like the devs said: "Name one". Stop saying saying I've seen _ and then being unable to provide a shitstain worth of evidence.

Using your logic: "I've seen a fucking Ho-oh". I guess it's true now. There we go guys, I'm a pokemaster.


Discord: Julius#7218

5/4/2017 5:39:19 PM #115
+1

Posted By Sagan at 6:07 PM - Thu May 04 2017

Posted By Oracle at 03:03 AM - Fri May 05 2017

summarising

One question to confront all of that.......

How do you tell a person carrying a cart into town to trade for in game currency...

from a person carrying a cart of resources to sell for the king for Paypal credit?

The ONLY difference here is that one player is making cash, and one king is paying for resource most likely from another region.

What you're missing here is that if there's a comparable volume, why bother with the gold seller in the first place? Has someone got visions of being minted by producing the amount of goods the average Player will produce while online? Or that someone would prefer to pay a gold seller $25 when they could roll an alt for the same and set them permanently working for them in the same manner?

If it's the motherload, it's going to take more than a cart to shift it, and several hours nagivation, not to mention guards etc.

After that, let's suppose they get a delivery though.. (yay?)

Two groups of people operate in the same manner. One sells off their goods for cash. The other expands their empire using their excess trade goods, perhaps hiring dozens more NPCs to produce that very same resource for them, assuming players haven't already taken to sourcing it themselves for profit. You see BOTs faring well in the longer term?

You've conjured all these boundries and some how convinced yourself that makes it difficult. A long paragraph on how food is important doesn't change the fact that as long as its in your bag... you just eat it automatically.. So yeah, not really a time sink or a struggle...

You still require it. The bottom line is a BOT has no advantage over a bog standard NPC or OPC. To have any significant impact on the economy anywhere, how do you see them competing with 100k other player bots?

Top top that off, taxes are expected on any used plots. You sacle up your operation, and you scale up your tax too.

Your mistake is just like the others, you assume they're not as competent as a normal player. Why cant they gather resources as the same rate as a normal person except stock pile that finite resource to sell for cash?

BOTs had an advantage when they were ahead of other players. Being the same as normal players simply isnt' good enough... If that's the case, how will they profit when faced with 100k+ players a number of whom may be equally happy to sell?


5/4/2017 5:40:22 PM #116
-3

You can't seriously believe that people who pay $50 for in game ore are going to prosecute people after their cart is robbed....... Wow.....

And yeah hilarious Lunaus, you've been attempting to flame since the start of this thread... Doesn't change the fact that I'm trying to help even jerks like you, even while you're giving me grief and treating me like a joke for being the only one here taking this seriously.

Put my neck out there as an easy target and you jackals just jumped in for the fake drama. Pretty typical of the forum lurking types.


My friend code: 4F7B5A

5/4/2017 5:41:44 PM #117
-2

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 03:38 AM - Fri May 05 2017

Posted By Sagan at 09:47 AM - Thu May 04 2017

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 11:34 PM - Thu May 04 2017

EDIT: ALSO, it hasn't ruined a game. Your definition of ruin vs mine and the devs are off. The only reason you think they are ruined is because you see their ads.

This is total nonsense, Takeda. I had just said that swarms of bots prevented players from getting basic resources and ruined the in-game lore and immersion thanks to hundreds of them sprinting by you to catch the next resource spawn and your response is seriously "the only reason you think they are ruined is because you see their ads"? Really mate? That is beyond petty

Like the devs said: "Name one".

Like when I said Runescape and WoW?

You're just ignoring everything I say dude, you're just a forum lurker that lies in wait, hoping for a thread to shoot down or flame. Your only purpose here is to attempt to shoot me down. You've ignored absolutely everything I've said and then you say "no you never said that" and move on.

It's lying, it's flaming, it's petty and it's fake drama.

And still some how you've fooled/manipulated these people into thinking I'm just a troll, simply because I'm holding the less agreeable position... even with you being obnoxious and rude from the start. It's unreal. Came here expecting a bit more of a mature environment but its pretty typical as forums go.


My friend code: 4F7B5A

5/4/2017 5:46:30 PM #118
+27

Hey Folks,

Let me go ahead and put this topic to bed. The forum post on MMORPG was a copy/paste from a forum post here on our forums from back in December (6 months ago). It was cleverly posted to look like a recent discussion when in fact it was not.

As to the original post here on our forums, that was a quote from a conversation happening in Discord that was taken out of context, and probably shouldn't have been posted to the forums in the first place - at least not without more context.

That said, I think the community members that have responded to this thread have done a fantastic job putting the the thread into the original context, which is this:

Gold/Item sellers exist because they can. You can address the problem one of two ways:

1) Accept that the design of your game allows/encourages gold farmers, and then spend countless resources trying to track them down and enforce a ToS.

or

2) Address the problem of gold farming via the design and mechanics of your game.

The problem with #1 is that for a game to encourage item/gold farming it must both provide an opportunity cost for choosing to achieve your goals the "right" way, vs. purchasing through third party sellers, and it must prevent the in-game players from dealing with gold farmers.

Our goal has always been to address the problem of gold/item selling by by giving players a way to deal with gold-sellers in-game, and by structuring the economy and system of progression such that gold-farming in its usual sense holds little value in CoE.

If you're not convinced, think about the activities most gold-farmers would perform in order to "farm gold" and ask yourself whether those activities make any sense in this game.

At the point where farming becomes the most effective way to "farm," it's no longer an issue and is just part of the economy.


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