Though I still agree with some of your concerns Kipfoe. Personally there is no reason to keep beating the horse. We have the same information last time you made this topic. Until something new comes out, like the EP store. Where we can see in detail everything, there isn't a need for another thread.

Others may say people are fine with it after Caspian responded to Adam thread, though that maybe true for some. Others like myself have just shut it till move information comes out.

No real point thinking the worse, while we still have such a lack of information. If the EP store launches whenever and it looks worse than I was thinking, then you can bet I make a thread. Until that point in time, we basically have to just hope for the best, until something new comes out.

I don't want a flat game world. It's meant to be the people in the world and how they conflict and work together that is the driver of this story. In other games the devs might just include a load of really tough npc or mob bosses and people wouldn't be all like "that's not fair". The fact that it is people paying for the development of the game that can potentially (if they skimp on other things) get these items to deepen the immersive quality of the games really doesn't feel like too big of a deal to me.

To start with I was bothered by the tech aspect of ep but then I realised that even if the guy 3 towns over has super swords for sale I can still compete as low level smith because a, in game he is really far away and that's a genuine problem for locals needing a sword, and b, not everyone can afford a super sword anyway so my entry level swords should still have a market.

The crux of the issue is that people think that if NPCs had these items and NPCs had the titles that it would make a world of difference. Who knows how competent the NPCs will be in this game.

Like almost every aspect of this game requires NPCs to be competent, and offer a challenge to overcome, especially when they are striving to make sure you don't know the difference between NPC and PC.

After kingdoms of elyria and the game goes into exposition, people shouldn't be able to claim everything that NPCs have regardless. People are going to spawn as the NPC's kin anyway from the outset unless a ward and by chance you will have a heirloom item within your NPC's family, hell even rarer so, you may start out as a governor.

Each settlement has a number of slots that are limited, What you would be suggesting is that the first person to log on and the quickest that they figure out how to play the questionnaire game, to get into the best position possible will be heirs to the royalty. At least that's how I understand how you'd be able to spawn as part of an NPC family.

Now you are concerned with some people having items you don't have. They will exist regardless of who and how they got them. People take place of already living NPC characters. And if they gain favor they will be written into the deed of the NPC's property. IF you got your way you will see that there would be little difference between who and how people obtain these items, people don't start from scratch unless they chose the ward option.

So they offer some of these items at a heavy cost. some one sure will buy a legendary or mystic item. However when they do that they spend anywhere between $37.50 (rare) to $750 (legendary) dollars for that privilege. To think these items are going to be bought in droves wouldn't make much sense. If a mayor spends over a 3rd of his EP on a rare Piece of armor or weapon, It just doesn't make much sense to me. I think there is better things to spend their money on.

Not that there isn't a problem with they way things are presented, I however don't believe that they have as big of an advantage buying a legendary blueprint up to a 100,000 ep or 10k dollars. even lesser than that they get a treasured which will be 20X100 and thatwould be 2000, double the ep that the mayor package has and that's also $200 dollars.

To even expect that some things can be legendary doesn't make much sense either, a legendary plot of land or legendary tree saplings, would be pretty odd, Yes this is a low fantasy game, but there is only so much you can do to get these things. And if there is unrealistic wood, That wouldn't make much sense either, wood is wood with various degrees of hardness or flexibility. You won't see very many if any pine bows a very hard wood, and you wouldn't see very many bass wood bows or buildings very soft wood. Aesthetically could be different but I don't think that they would give people saplings that would end up destroying the economy. I don't think trees would have a production difference unless their size is different Don't expect every type of wood to be good wood for all the things that require wood. Especially if they want the game to be somewhat realistic. Different types of wood serve different purposes.

I also think that when the store comes out that kip will be pleased to see how limited these mystic, legendary, and rare items are. Unless I am mistaken, they don't want to have things like that that make some one able to produce more generic wood, I suspect that there wouldn't be any "generic" wood. Or Generic "herbs" for alchemy. Just like that I don't expect to be able to grow all herbs within all biomes, and those that can grow in all biomes don't expect those to be all that important

Think of what makes sense to be legendary, then also consider the cost, the smallest percentage of people will not be able to afford, and if they are able to afford it why would they buy things like a breastplate rather than defensive architecture or something else that costs the same.

I do understand that the small percentage of players that are playing the game will have some advantages when it comes to the launch of the game, but I don't expect that the advantages to be as big as you suspect. Starting as a mayor, count, duke, and king are the very nature of short lived I would suspect unless tied to the right things.

There will be the best way to spend the EP I don't expect that it'd be with higher quality armor. It wouldn't serve you justice, especially when these things are going to exist regardless unless techniques and skills will be outrageously hard to achieve that takes many weeks of game time to get to, I don't think these techniques would serve that big of an advantage. Considering, they might not even be offered.

The way research works in this game it wouldn't make much sense to have people already producing the best of the best till the next technology comes out that the developers are working on for the next update.

I don't understand in what respect you think it'd be different from players randomly getting into these positions of power or having to secure positions from NPCs that you could very well spawn with anyway if you fill out the thing correctly. What makes more of an interesting game, Having to take from an NPC or having to take from a player.

Posted By Apaukolypse at 11:42 PM - Mon May 22 2017

I really don't want to feed this conversation, and lord knows I have more than said my fair share on the matter, but I really am not sure if Caspian has lost the plot or not.

I am on the fence and giving SBS the benefit of the doubt they will make this work. They heard our concerns and now it's a wait and see how it plays out. I have 2k to spend on my town and don't see much of advantage I will get out of building the items they listed. I don't think everyone really understands how much EP these upper tiers will be paying for the infrastructure of there county. If you ignore something it will cost you later on in game.

Posted By Iccubus at 12:13 PM - Tue May 23 2017

Posted By Apaukolypse at 11:42 PM - Mon May 22 2017

I really don't want to feed this conversation, and lord knows I have more than said my fair share on the matter, but I really am not sure if Caspian has lost the plot or not.

I am on the fence and giving SBS the benefit of the doubt they will make this work. They heard our concerns and now it's a wait and see how it plays out. I have 2k to spend on my town and don't see much of advantage I will get out of building the items they listed. I don't think everyone really understands how much EP these upper tiers will be paying for the infrastructure of there county. If you ignore something it will cost you later on in game.

Yeah I have just over 2k in EP and it's not going to stretch as far as I would like. Of course my money is going into improving the town, I doubt I'll actually buy myself a weapon or armour, prefer to make that in game.

Also remember this is a game that promotes player skill above character and item bonuses. Maybe your newly made arch enemy does have better gear than you, maybe he bought them with EP, maybe he didn't. Maybe one on one you can't best him, maybe that's due to player skill, maybe you're equally skilled and it was the items? So get a bunch of mates and lynch the sucker.

I'm also willing to wait it out, I'll wait it out right up to launch. I'll probably play the game till my 4 sparks are extinguished. At the end of that if I feel the game is P2W that's when I'll vote with my wallet and not purchase another spark.

Posted By KipFoE at

I’ll summarize my main concern in that in the response post I was hoping to see Caspian respond that he was doing everything he could to eradicate the idea that the game was p2w, but I never saw Caspian say that the game was not going to be pay for an advantage and there were some general terms that left room for advantages. Why couldn’t the approach be to nearly eliminate in-game advantages. Give people basic buildings for expo. Offer the headstart. Have a plethora of cosmetic offerings. Just don’t give advantages that could affect a single player facing another single player.

You start off from the faulty premise that some players starting off at an advantage to one another is an issue.

Consider this, do you want to play in a Fantasy world where everything is perfectly balanced? Where everyone is either a powerful mage or no one is? Where everyone is either a skilled fighter or no one is? Where everyone is either an accomplished crafter or no one is?

No, the world is in large part defined by the fact that different people, different countries, different families, different beasts, different flora and so on exist and these differences lead to dynamism. A balanced world is boring and feels artificial.

But maybe you say NPCs can be this imbalance or maybe we are fine with imbalance if it is RNG (i.e. no one complains about talents as if it is somehow more "earned" if a player is possibly randomly OP versus possibly buying into being OP) but what difference does it make if they are NPCs or PCs who bought into being the guy with a rare recipe for a potion?

At the end of the day YOUR experience is essentially the same, the persons in the world are going to have relics and talents and kingdoms and armies regardless, of course you want them to have these things that's the spice of life in a game. Hell PCs are better than the usually derpy AI of an NPC for truly enjoying a game. How many people complain about RPGs having stupid AI that make war too easy, or bartering a simple numbers game, or all of the other things that take us out of the moment in an RPG and remind us we're playing a game with dumb shells of simple code. This is that chance where the world is for a large chunk filled with dynamic intelligent agents with ambitions and dreams and friendships and betrayals to explore.

But all of this is bad because in the back of your mind there is the nagging feeling that if you only have more money you could be playing that experience instead of the one you're currently playing. Do you detest eating a store brand cupcake because across the country a business man is eating a fancy Italian dessert? It's simply absurd in my opinion to completely reject and devalue the potential of your own game experience simply because you envy what someone else might be experiencing.

I apologize I didn't read the rest of the OP. I will read it once I am home and provide another reply but I have wanted to talk about this "Balance" mentality for some time.

No one will be able to convince him of anything because he thinks everyone is an idiot that can't see what he's trying to do. Why is Kip a rank 7 if he's so opposed to the idea of spending money for an "advantage"?

Or is he just opposed to new products and so he makes up some idiotic argument that has BEEN ADDRESSED. He either hasn't read or can't understand Caspian.

Kip, you're the reason your father drinks at night. You're just a disappointment.

Every noble that has gotten involved in the community has become a rallying point and/or a target for players. I believe that rare, legendary, and mystic items will be similar. Part of the point of players who choose to take on these roles paying for them, is that it shows that they are willing to make a substantial investment in the community, and the community trusts that people who are willing to put their money where their mouth is are willing to stick around and put in the necessary time once the game launches. Nothing in this game will be accomplished alone, and NPC's are supposed to be as similar to players as possible, so these rallying points will add a great deal of interesting gameplay and community building to the start of the game.

Soulbound wants to reward players who contribute to the community. Right now the ways players can contribute is through paying money to help fund the game, and bringing in other players who will pay money to help fund the game. In the future we are told that artistic, programming, community-building, or in-game storytelling contributions will also be rewarded, but right now what they really need is money so they are rewarding community members willing to provide that. Their philosophy has, from the very beginning, been that players who have something to offer the community will be at an advantage, and that advantages that will affect a single player versus another single player will be handed out both randomly, and to those who have the most to offer the community.

Chronicles of Elyria is not a competitive combat esport. Caspian's vision is for this to be a game where creating interesting stories and building communities is the central focus. That's why I am interested in this game, when I have been interested in so few MMO's in the past. Chronicles of Elyria is not aimed at the typical core audience of MMO's, and I am so glad it is not. It might mean SBS has a harder time finding players. There might not actually be enough players who want this kind of game for it to actually succeed. But if no one tries, we'll never know. Some of us in the community do see what Caspian is trying to accomplish, and applaud him for it. You are right that it matters if some players start the game with an advantage. It is absolutely necessary that a small percentage of players start with an advantage in each area of gameplay for the game to function as intended. If this is a drawback for you, then you have a decision to make. Are the concepts that you love about the game worth dealing with the concepts that concern you? I hope you find your answer.

Relics (custom ones to boot) were sold during Kickstarter for Artificer+. I'm not sure what the difference is between paying for them then in a pledge tier and paying for them now with EP, and why it's suddenly only now that people are having a problem with them.

Posted By Kelipski at 9:48 PM - Tue May 23 2017

Kip, you're the reason your father drinks at night. You're just a disappointment.

Yeah this wasn't called for. You may not agree with him making a topic. But no need for personal attacks.

Here's how I see it playing out:

Up until launch, there's "P2 Andvantage," P2 Lose, P2 Decorate, P2 Populate the world with interesting widgets...Mostly Pay 2 Lose them.

After Launch, the specific concern over widgets is going to look pretty silly...all for the fact we brought the usual "D&D" connotations with us when we read the words "Legendary" and such.

The more trinkets they have, the more infrastructure they have to spend to keep them safe. Even assuming they're successful, what's achieved is a wash--not an advantage. And I hope the rogue who actually lifts it leaves a thank-you note for the victim having paid for its creation in the world.

I rather expect the strategic wallets to forego spending EP on trinkets and concentrate on the practical.

Either way, At Launch, I'm guessing there's maybe 3 entry packages, tops...perhaps fewer. P2Mule. P2Discount Spark. Pretty darned restrained.

Can we give the devs a little credit? They understand Elyria's value is in the fact Elyria really is Something Different. The games don't start on the 50 yard line, but the playing field is level, and the P2 backers are on defense.

Soulborn won't Sell Out that vision until AFTER it PROVES unprofitable.

IF it proves unprofitable, then they won't have a choice--it'll have to fall back on the disappointing revenue streams. They'll do it knowing Elyria is now nothing more than next-generation AV engine painted on the Same Old Game. Great engine under the hood, but who cares? It'd still just be running the Same Old Game.

So let's give them credit for the fact that they positively will not steer it in that direction now, because that would make no business sense. The vision and the values will have their day. They will get their chance to prove themselves. The Devs won't let EP widgets undermine that imperative. A little play testing may be needed to balance it, but they know what balance is when they see it.

Another p2w post made by idiot... Which part of legendary item is just cosmetic looking item with locked magic abbility you don't understand? Pay to be a king? Yeah sure pay to be a king and have bullseye on your back and every player that doesn't give a flying fuk about rp will try to kill you. CoE is not P2W get over it...

Posted By Gunnlang at 09:04 AM - Tue May 23 2017

Posted By Kelipski at 9:48 PM - Tue May 23 2017

Kip, you're the reason your father drinks at night. You're just a disappointment.

Yeah this wasn't called for. You may not agree with him making a topic. But no need for personal attacks.

If you want to believe there is nothing wrong with the same handful of people creating a topic that has been personally addressed by the CEO and explained in extensive detail, you can believe that. If I come to the conclusion that someone oblivious of given responses is most likely a disappointment in real life, that's a valid conclusion. Its a waste of everyone's time to have to give the same responses over and over because some guy doesn't have the mental capacity to understand he's wrong (or more likely doesn't care what anyone says, he'll either get his way or keep screaming that the world is against him). If he wants to curl up in a corner, he shouldn't be able to make us all watch him. His concerns have been addressed, if he doesn't like it then he should make a guild of minimalists and pick a starting point in the middle of nowhere and enjoy having nothing.

He's just pissed because he thinks the "advantage" he's already bought is being limited by other people buying stuff.