COMMUNITY - FORUMS - SELENE DOMAINS
Gatherer seeking settlement

Dear mayors and barons, I've read plenty of your nice postings advertising your settlements, but often enough, I'm lacking a bit of concrete information to make an educated choice. I'm well aware that we're all short on the knowledge how certain features are going to look like in the end and it's very tricky for you to plan now, since everything is subject to change, but that results in most every promotional posting looking very similar. Hence why I decided to take this route and specify a couple of points that are of explicit concern to me and that are rarely touched on. I hope you won't mind and one or the other might contact me (either here or via private message) with an offer and a little bit of insight. If you can 'assume' some basics and answer based on these axioms, given that you mention them, that gets me a 'general idea' where you/your settlement are heading at least (and I hope that you, as a future mayor, are up to date with the current design journals and Q&A information).

  • First, and most important of all, it's about security. How do you or your superiors intend to organize law-enforcement (guards)? People often state that they are going to have patrols and would send forces to trail down criminals, but barely ever get into details on how they envision to create this standing army. We know the figures ( roughly 12k players on 4 servers, 24 kingdoms, 288 duchies and 6912 countries, not to mention settlements) and people certainly won't be doing guard duty 24 hours a day. Even more so when you consider the possibility of joining an NPC duchy/county. Do you plan to ask people for their online-timeframes and how they guesstimate their PvP proficiency? How are you going to compensate for times when there are only OPC/NPC guards around? If your settlement is going to have walls, are you going to close the gate at specific times (and if so which ones)? Are you going to send troops to trail down criminals and if so, are they going to cross borders (county, duchy and even kingdom)?

  • And I'd love to know if you intend to treat local residents equal to 'foreigners' (trading and law specific)? What if they are of the same country/duchy/kingdom? Does race, religion and language play a role there?

  • How are you going to react on a delay when paying tax (e.g. if one's on vacation and the OPC script messes up)?

  • What would be your preferred biome(s)/tribe and more concrete what sort of materials should I hope to find (I prefer working as a miner, lumberjack or herbalist)?

  • Are there plans to increase your area of influence during KoE (and if you're willing to be a bit more concrete, which)? If you're going to work on this, are you going to try and centralize the settlements, in order to gain more of a playerbase and increase to chances of surviving in one larger settlement instead of multiple tiny spread out ones?

  • How do you plan to handle people who're going to try and replace existing crafters (e.g. somebody buys 125 'crafting material packs' during exposition with the discounted $200 EP deal, basically leaving the competition without a chance)?

  • What sort of law and tax are you looking for in the county/duchy/kingdom you're joining?

Thank you in advance!


Sage willing to help with Purity (if you spot me on Discord and have some Plague on your account that could be nullified with a trade, drop me a message on Discord)

6/18/2017 3:04:07 PM #1

Hey Logain, I am from Gladal County in the Demalion Empire. Jump on our county discord and I'll answer your questions as best I can 😁. https://discord.gg/PgrhY5k


6/18/2017 5:59:58 PM #2

Hey there. I am the Duke of Skywind. I would be happy to answer your questions as best as I can. Feel free to visit our discord and drop me a line: https://discord.gg/BVpP8Ec


6/18/2017 6:35:32 PM #3
  1. This is in my opinion to say anything about at this moment. We know way too little about in-game systems to make any proper plans.

  2. That’ll depend on what tribe I end up as. As you can see by the tribe posts by Caspian all tribes have different relations with each other. Should I be Hrothi I’d probably treat Neran and Brudvir people fairly equal to my own, but Kypiq’s would be treated differently etc. Basically it depends on the in-game culture and politics.

  3. Be upfront about it and stuff will usually work itself out. We’re all (mostly) reasonable adults around here.

  4. I’m part of Nirath, we’ll most likely be the last kingdom to pick biome. So we’ll get what we get. Right now it’s about building a community that will stick together :)

  5. If I get the opportunity, sure. Why not? The nature of the possible expansion depends on a lot of factors we won’t know much about till KoE releases, or right before.

  6. Even though somebody buys a shitload of crafting material with EP, that doesn’t equate to them being any good at whatever craft they’re trying to do. Quantity =! quality
Also, if you’re in exposition you’re not replacing any existing player crafters, only NPCs.

  7. Fair.

I’m sorry the answers aren’t more elaborate, but some of them were quite impossible to answer to begin with. If you want to talk more, jump into our discord: https://discord.gg/HPKUu4P


House Storm

6/19/2017 12:34:12 PM #4
  • First, and most important of all, it's about security. How do you or your superiors intend to organize law-enforcement (guards)? People often state that they are going to have patrols and would send forces to trail down criminals, but barely ever get into details on how they envision to create this standing army. We know the figures ( roughly 12k players on 4 servers, 24 kingdoms, 288 duchies and 6912 countries, not to mention settlements) and people certainly won't be doing guard duty 24 hours a day. Even more so when you consider the possibility of joining an NPC duchy/county. Do you plan to ask people for their online-timeframes and how they guesstimate their PvP proficiency? How are you going to compensate for times when there are only OPC/NPC guards around?

Based on current information that we have, the Duke will be in charge of deploying armies, I myself am a Count though, so if settlements in my area are troublesome with crime, i will be seeking help from the Duke to help with filling some of the strongholds in my county with extra people. This way people can be better deployed throughout the region.

That being said, I plan to have an active Arena within my own town/city, this will allow people of a PvP nature to train and become better at what they do.

Patrols will just be handled by OPC scripting. The OPC scripting is the same as what NPC's use, and can be shared out of game as well. Through testing in the Alpha & Beta, we can see what scripts work for our needs and distribute those where needed. High priority targets will be covered by the patrols, however crime is crime, even if you prepare fully, people still find a way to commit crime, and the citizens will report crime, so my county will have whatever the equivalent of a investigators office is, so they can track down criminals and issue bounty tokens as and when required.... so people trained by the Arena can collect a bounty token and take revenge for those who have been wronged.

If your settlement is going to have walls, are you going to close the gate at specific times (and if so which ones)?

Walls are expensive and only really for Strongholds, walls will be where there needs to be secure areas, so that patrols are made easier, however i will be taking advantage of any natural barriers in the area, for example, there is no need for a wall when you have a cliff face on one side of the town, or a river...it'll be very suspicious if people are trying to cross those types of hazards besides using the main roads.

Are you going to send troops to trail down criminals and if so, are they going to cross borders (county, duchy and even kingdom)?

Troops?... probably not, it all depends on the nature of the crime. It's unlikely i'll be on the border as well, so there no need to cross borders, but i'll be sure to be in contact with the neighbouring counties, so that if a criminal escapes my area, they are still wanted in another area.... like-wise, i'd be helping to catch criminals who escape from neighbours to my area.

In terms of actually tracking people down, that'll be up to the people who take the bounty tokens, because bounty tokens should (game mechanics pending) be valid for the entire kingdom.... it will depend on the level of the reward as to whether or not they go for it. Some people will just track people down though, because bounty tokens are a legal way of combat, and players be players, so they'll have fun of legally messing someone up ;)

  • And I'd love to know if you intend to treat local residents equal to 'foreigners' (trading and law specific)? What if they are of the same country/duchy/kingdom?

Game mechanics pending, but I'd treat locals better than "foreigners", but not to any extreme degree. Obviously i'd prefer people to be living in the settlements that are under my control, so locals will likely get a slightly better deal than an outsider, locals for example, might get a 5% discount. This would only be for things that are run by the county, and some things might be free for locals, like toll bridges? But this all depends on if there is a way for something like paper identification.

Does race, religion and language play a role there?

Not really in my Counties main town, because an Arena would do better with diversity, even if i have no control over what the town does in this aspect of the game, I'd control the Arena, so I'd play up to this by employing fighters from opposing tribes/religions/etc.... at least the people would be entertained :D

  • How are you going to react on a delay when paying tax (e.g. if one's on vacation and the OPC script messes up)?

Tbh, a contract is a contract, if people mess up it's their own fault. An OPC might mess up, but thats human error for putting them in charge of something that important. A vacation isn't something that happens without warning, it's something that is planned. There is nothing to stop someone paying early BEFORE they go on vacation.

There might not be a way to notify people of my discord channel, but i'd have a discord channel for people to discuss anything that happens due to extreme circumstances, but this would be so rare it's not even worth making a plan for.

  • What would be your preferred biome(s)/tribe and more concrete what sort of materials should I hope to find (I prefer working as a miner, lumberjack or herbalist)?

Tbh, as a Count I have little control over this. I am part of Nirath and I will be in whatever biome they are in. I'm happy to go with the flow with that one. Only preference i have is that I'd prefer to be on the coast, as it'll make transport and the "natural barrier" idea easier, but I could be just as happy land locked.

  • Are there plans to increase your area of influence during KoE (and if you're willing to be a bit more concrete, which)? If you're going to work on this, are you going to try and centralize the settlements, in order to gain more of a playerbase and increase to chances of surviving in one larger settlement instead of multiple tiny spread out ones?

I am going to be part of an NPC Duchy. This means that there will be a high chance of me being surrounded by NPC Counts during KOE and the MUD.... so I'll land grab as much as the system allows me to, without becoming militaristic of course :D

  • How do you plan to handle people who're going to try and replace existing crafters (e.g. somebody buys 125 'crafting material packs' during exposition with the discounted $200 EP deal, basically leaving the competition without a chance)?

It's worth noting that a lot of stock means nothing if your competition is undercutting you.

Also crafting isn't as simple a process of

raw material > crafting > final product.

There can be many different processes required before the end result is achieved. Eg

Seeds > Farming > Bakery > Cooking > Tavern

it's very unlikely that two players will conflict in such a way that it results in an unresolvable conflict within a settlement.

  • What sort of law and tax are you looking for in the county/duchy/kingdom you're joining?

Depends on the laws and taces passed down from the Kingdom, which i'll have no control over.

Like everyone else, here's a discord invite for my settlement :D


6/20/2017 2:39:05 PM #5

Thanks everybody for the replies (so far), including the private messages! Especially the more detailed ones are much appreciated! I'm going to take some time and visit a couple of the discord during the week. Now to respond to a few points (as an explanation where I've obviously lacked conveying my point of worry/interest).

Posted By Thor at 8:35 PM - Sun Jun 18 2017

  1. This is in my opinion to say anything about at this moment. We know way too little about in-game systems to make any proper plans.

Posted By Nagash at 2:34 PM - Mon Jun 19 2017

Based on current information that we have, the Duke will be in charge of deploying armies, I myself am a Count though, so if settlements in my area are troublesome with crime, i will be seeking help from the Duke to help with filling some of the strongholds in my county with extra people. This way people can be better deployed throughout the region. (...) Patrols will just be handled by OPC scripting. The OPC scripting is the same as what NPC's use, and can be shared out of game as well. (...) citizens will report crime, so my county will have whatever the equivalent of a investigators office is, so they can track down criminals

Well, organizing players in time-zone specific troops works regardless of in-game specifics. But you're right, there's a couple of points where we can only speculate. On that end though, players so far have always managed to 'fool' AI in any given MMORPG (which is why they differentiate between PvE and PvP to begin with, otherwise that would be mute). As much as I trust SBS to create a great game, my bet is that NPC and OPC won't be able to effectively secure a settlement against intruders (and I hope that a mayor is kind of worst case planning for this). Which means there's two possible scenarios to go about that, either 'let the crime happen' and track it down/punish it, or try to prevent it by having an own small standing guard. Tracking down isn't trivial due to sheer size of the game and 'slow' traveling speed (both favors the 'criminal') and guarding is tricky due to finding enough active players, ready to engage. Hence my question on the subject. P.S.: I'm not worried about 'sharing of OPC scripts', since I'm going to write my own. While I'm not an highly paid industry expert, I should be able to manage that with my level of expertise on the subject ;)

Posted By Thor at 8:35 PM - Sun Jun 18 2017

  1. Even though somebody buys a shitload of crafting material with EP, that doesn’t equate to them being any good at whatever craft they’re trying to do. Quantity =! quality
Also, if you’re in exposition you’re not replacing any existing player crafters, only NPCs.

Posted By Nagash at 2:34 PM - Mon Jun 19 2017

It's worth noting that a lot of stock means nothing if your competition is undercutting you.

Undercutting is the whole points. Let's take an easy example and say I'd be to join your settlement as blacksmith. I worked hard to help you and the settlement through ElyriaMUD, now exposition hits and I finally 'join your settlement for real'. But right there, another 'random' player joins, one who has not previously announced/asked to be part of your settlement and spent the 3k EP on crafting material packs. That player can craft 'several hundred basic products' (according to what we heard about the EP store one pack is enough for several products) and easily sell them cheap while buying all the iron at a higher price. Obviously, since I wouldn't have that 'head-start', I could neither undercut him, nor would anybody sell iron to me (when they can sell for more to the other person). That's how monopoly works in our economy as well. And it's very unlikely that a settlement can support more than one blacksmith (settlements are small and far apart). That'd mean I'd either have to select a new profession and have wasted my Pledge pack reward, or I'd have to get to a new settlement (and kind of wasted my reward as well).

Posted By Thor at 8:35 PM - Sun Jun 18 2017

I’m sorry the answers aren’t more elaborate, but some of them were quite impossible to answer to begin with.

You did your best and took the time, I much appreciate that!


Sage willing to help with Purity (if you spot me on Discord and have some Plague on your account that could be nullified with a trade, drop me a message on Discord)

6/20/2017 6:23:20 PM #6

Posted By Logain at

  • First, and most important of all, it's about security. How do you or your superiors intend to organize law-enforcement (guards)?

No one without the right permissions will be allowed to enter my tunnels and thus my town. Anyone trespassing into my towns tunnels without the proper clearance will be tossed out.

If your settlement is going to have walls, are you going to close the gate at specific times (and if so which ones)?

Why build walls when you can have a mountain?

Are you going to send troops to trail down criminals and if so, are they going to cross borders (county, duchy and even kingdom)?

I will hunt them to the end of the earth...err.. Elyria

  • And I'd love to know if you intend to treat local residents equal to 'foreigners' (trading and law specific)? What if they are of the same country/duchy/kingdom?

All will be equal in the eyes of the law

Does race, religion and language play a role there?

Except the Kypiq

  • How are you going to react on a delay when paying tax (e.g. if one's on vacation and the OPC script messes up)?

Just let me know in advance and we'll cover your taxes at the count.

  • What would be your preferred biome(s)/tribe and more concrete what sort of materials should I hope to find (I prefer working as a miner, lumberjack or herbalist)?

We will aim to play as Hrothi

  • Are there plans to increase your area of influence during KoE (and if you're willing to be a bit more concrete, which)?

Definitely, but until we know the mechanics of KoE, it'll be hard to figure out how exactly.

  • How do you plan to handle people who're going to try and replace existing crafters (e.g. somebody buys 125 'crafting material packs' during exposition with the discounted $200 EP deal, basically leaving the competition without a chance)?

I doubt this will be possible in Elyria. At best you can outperform the NPC's, which is a good thing. I will rather encourage players to form a guild together with the support of the town and work in unison to become to best crafters together.

  • What sort of law and tax are you looking for in the county/duchy/kingdom you're joining?

Tax, for now, is not important. Everyone will be taxed and as long as taxes are used to improve my characters life, I have no problem contributing.


Brash

6/23/2017 11:44:06 AM #7

Posted By Logain at 3:39 PM - Tue Jun 20 2017

Posted By Nagash at 2:34 PM - Mon Jun 19 2017

It's worth noting that a lot of stock means nothing if your competition is undercutting you.

Undercutting is the whole points. Let's take an easy example and say I'd be to join your settlement as blacksmith. I worked hard to help you and the settlement through ElyriaMUD, now exposition hits and I finally 'join your settlement for real'. But right there, another 'random' player joins, one who has not previously announced/asked to be part of your settlement and spent the 3k EP on crafting material packs. That player can craft 'several hundred basic products' (according to what we heard about the EP store one pack is enough for several products) and easily sell them cheap while buying all the iron at a higher price. Obviously, since I wouldn't have that 'head-start', I could neither undercut him, nor would anybody sell iron to me (when they can sell for more to the other person). That's how monopoly works in our economy as well. And it's very unlikely that a settlement can support more than one blacksmith (settlements are small and far apart). That'd mean I'd either have to select a new profession and have wasted my Pledge pack reward, or I'd have to get to a new settlement (and kind of wasted my reward as well).

I get your concern in this aspect, though just for example, if you (or anyone) were to join my county early, i'd help you to get setup and maximise your play experience within my settlement. Last thing i want is for people to get pissed off at me, i like to consider myself a nice guy :D but also I don't want to get overthrown and run out of town, which could easily happen if someone were to be unhappy and rallied people behind them.

Though I don't think this would be something worth worrying about because items on the scale your talking about will likely be locked to perhaps Mayor titles and above, so someone buying that much stock wouldn't be able to join my settlement because I would be the mayor of my settlement :D

But if we just assume they could buy that much stock with EP, they are still only one player. If we use yoru example again of a Blacksmith, they wouldn't physically be able to use that much stock to make gear, so they'd have to become a wholesaler, which means they'd have to sell on the cheap to make a profit, so if your a Blacksmith it would benefit you, since you wouldn't have to spend all that time gathering resources and instead you'd just craft.

Also when considering crafting professions, we need to remember that they are making it so everything needs to be crafted in the game, not just "resource = final product" like in most games. So with the blacksmith example again, if you were making a sword, your not just making the weapon, your making the blade and the hilt and the bolts that hold them togther.... if you want to make it look nice your also making all the other bits like gems or just straps comfort when holding it. And then if you want to be the best at making something, you have to be a master of making that type of item.... so thats a lot of individual pieces you need to master.... and thats just for swords. One person isn't going to succeed in being a blacksmith due to buying a lot of stock..... and if they decided to specialise in sword, change tactic and specialise in Shields, or Amour, or furniture, etc etc :D

Those who specialise will do better than those who try and do everything.

Oh and the stock people receive via EP will be random, so they wouldn't be able to setup as one particular type of crafter, just as a trader


6/23/2017 2:41:17 PM #8

Posted By Nagash at 1:44 PM - Fri Jun 23 2017

(...)items on the scale your talking about will likely be locked to perhaps Mayor titles and above(...)

As far as the last (arguably outdated) information on the EP store, no that part was everybody with access to exposition. The restrictions only seemed to be meant for the 'higher building packs', which would make sense, since we little guys are getting 'free' EP as well, so there has to be something to spend it on.

Posted By Nagash at 1:44 PM - Fri Jun 23 2017

(...) they wouldn't physically be able to use that much stock to make gear (...)

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this. What would restrict them from using it? It's basically just like a massive storage of materials to work on, similar to as if I'd bought it in-game from a gatherer? They don't have to use everything up instantaneously.

Posted By Nagash at 1:44 PM - Fri Jun 23 2017

Also when considering crafting professions, we need to remember that they are making it so everything needs to be crafted in the game, not just "resource = final product" like in most games

Yes, I'm fully aware of that. The problem is that we're confronted with a regional instead of a global economy. With the last (again, outdated ~sighs~) information, we have ~1728 counties, spread across 256*128 km with a walking speed of 48 (RL) hours to traverse these 256 km and roughly 100000 (combined NPC and PC) starting population. So a single county averages about 19 km², with 58 inhabitants and takes about an hour to thirty minutes to cross. Realistically speaking, every hamlet or village (which has to be the vast majority per county, as to support the required occasional capitol, city and town) is not going to support more than a single crafter for each profession (which is great and realistic, like it used to be in medieval times). Specialized or not, people are going to think thrice before traveling a real life hour just to purchase a single sword.

Posted By Nagash at 1:44 PM - Fri Jun 23 2017

Oh and the stock people receive via EP will be random

Do you have a link for that? I don't recall having read that (it would be somewhat odd, given that you can specifically purchase the individual crafting stations).

All in all, it boils down to the simple fact that CoE is somewhat revolutionary (which is great). We're going to pick a server and settlement/location before knowing any solid facts on the gameplay and final mechanics (since I want to participate in ElyriaMUD), with everything up to speculation and subject to change. That said, I'm simply trying to prepare for 'worst case scenarios' that I can imagine given the current state.


Sage willing to help with Purity (if you spot me on Discord and have some Plague on your account that could be nullified with a trade, drop me a message on Discord)