COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
On the Subject of Religion, Faith, and Followers...
+4

Forgive me if anyone has brought this up yet, or if this is the wrong place to strike up such a discussion, but what of religion?

As I'm sure many of you know, religion is intricately woven into the fantasy genre. Whether it be tabletop RPGs like D&D or Pathfinder, MMOs or literature (a la Dragonlance, Game of Thrones, etc.), worship is not a thing taken lightly. In universes like George R.R. Martin's or Tolkien's the presence of religion (aside from a few outliers, notably the Red Priests(esses)) and beseechment of a god's blessings rarely if ever produce notable results. In others priests, clerics and paladins of a faith provide obvious proof of a god's power by laying on hands or smiting the forces opposed to that god's alignment.

As someone who leans frequently toward these types of characters (whether it be in a high or low fantasy setting), and who notes that there are already religions in place as far as lore is concerned, can we expect religious orders within a tribe run by characters to have a framework to build on, much the same as the business and governmental bodies? Could my character, through faith and dedication to the tenets of their religion, expect the boons of my god(s) bestowed upon me? And likewise, expect to incur massive penalties for breaking with those beliefs even in times of dire necessity?

For example, let's say that I have the equipment, skills and demeanor to pass for a knight. I am wholly devoted to god (A), to the point where the good I do is done in A's name. I am, in other words, a paladin, with all the good and bad that entails. In my travels I find myself in a dire predicament: ahead of me lies a quest that will almost certainly kill me. As a paladin of A my duty is clear: I must help, and cannot turn away. As a player I am afraid of losing my character, who I've grown attached to over several months as them. Leaving is not an option: I chose to serve my god, and if I do not try my life is forfeit. I can expect a myriad of negative results to incur for abandoning duty, up to (and very much including or leading to) death.

My questions for that sort of situation are:

1) Is that sort of scenario even possible outside of heavy dedication to RP, say, with game mechanics?

2) With magic in this world strongly hinted at, can we expect divine blessings and curses?

3) Will religious orders be allowed to grow and spread their influence organically, assuming there are any at all?

4) Can a governmental body become a theocracy?

5) Can new religions created by players threaten to usurp the long-standing religion(s) of a tribe?

6) How will cults be handled?

7*) Through extremely rare, unusual, highly unlikely circumstances, can a character become a god (even if that player is then forced to start their next character)?

8) Will there be rare but sometimes tangible results for dedicated followers, perhaps less potent but no less desirable than magic?

9) Will there be a framework for religious institutions, much like there will be for businesses and governmental bodies?

  • A thought occurred to me regarding Question 7. The following is purely hypothetical: If the player were to remain in control of said character, could they (on occasion, or perhaps all the time) be able to receive the thoughts and prayers (text and VOIP within their temples or in proximity to an altar of theirs) of their worshippers? Not that they could respond directly, but it would be interesting to give the god-player a few options to respond with, a la making that character feeling warmer/colder, healing an illness, etc. If they had a pool of "mana" to draw from that was directly affected by the number of devoted followers with which to enact miracles, this could become a world in which it was clear the gods were indeed watching. A ridiculous proposition, and I can't imagine how such a thing could be implemented and remain balanced, but it does make me giggle to think of it.

Patientia. Diligentia. Contego.

6/19/2017 6:36:14 PM #1
+1

I sincerely believe that Religion should be one of the biggest motivators I believe if a religion is losing ground, losing holy sites etc.. that a spiritual debuff would be needed for the followers of that faith to make them fight more for it.

For example it could debuff your reasoning stats with other religions but improve your willpower.


6/19/2017 6:37:24 PM #2
+0

On mobile so can't answer in depth but there are old quotes related to religion. In particular will it have any impact? To which the answer is...will it? Devs are intentionally vague on it for likely the same reasons they are mum on magic, they want us to find out.

So worship regularlt or don't, it may or may not affect you one way or another.


6/19/2017 6:45:19 PM #3
+3

Posted By Karik at 7:37 PM - Mon Jun 19 2017

On mobile so can't answer in depth but there are old quotes related to religion. In particular will it have any impact? To which the answer is...will it? Devs are intentionally vague on it for likely the same reasons they are mum on magic, they want us to find out.

So worship regularlt or don't, it may or may not affect you one way or another.

reading the tribes write up it is very clear that Religion has a huge impact on Elyria.


6/19/2017 7:01:07 PM #4
+0

Posted By Josseline at

2) With magic in this world strongly hinted at, can we expect divine blessings and curses?

I think the AI could be set to play the role of the Divine who on occasion takes an active hand in the world. This could be via Miracles of some sort or direct blessings and curses.

3) Will religious orders be allowed to grow and spread their influence organically, assuming there are any at all?

The Game is already set to create orders and such at game start. These would be NPC controlled to begin with I think. However, you could contact your Kingdom's Religious leader for their input. You could have A guild that operates in every way as a religious entity but tread lightly on any Titles you would give. Example Father ??? or Sister ??? would be ok I think. Using ArchBishop or Pope COULD be an issue. LOL Brother at Arms but not Knight or Sir.

4) Can a governmental body become a theocracy?

If you had a government head of an area who buys into the idea from the start of game I think your King might allow it. Again talk with the Religious leader of your kingdom. Else you can place a religious leader in power either by conversion of the Leadership or Usting of the Secular leader. Doing so, however, is likely to cause the Nastiest of possible Civil wars.

5) Can new religions created by players threaten to usurp the long-standing religion(s) of a tribe?

Do you mean worshippers of a newly minted divine they create themselves? (Like being a False Prophet) Or do you mean another standing religion in place of the current one?

6) How will cults be handled?

That would depend on what the Cult stands for and what the people in the area think of them. They could be seen as Demon worshipers, False Prophets, Heretics, Pagans, etc. That would likely be up to the characters and government that see them as good or evil. 7*) Through extremely rare, unusual, highly unlikely circumstances, can a character become a god (even if that player is then forced to start their next character)?

8) Will there be rare but sometimes tangible results for dedicated followers, perhaps less potent but no less desirable than magic?

NO IDEA on what the game designers have in mind or the AI is being set up to handle. I think you will find they will not tell you flat out. You will have to find out in game. Faith is doing what you feel is right and needed without being told in advance if the divine is listening or will respond.

9) Will there be a framework for religious institutions, much like there will be for businesses and governmental bodies?

I think that will vary from Kingdom to Kingdom. Some already have religious advisers and leaders selected. We know there will be Orders of some sort at game start. I would assume there can be.


Mayor of Fararo, In service to Countess Hela of Seidr, Duke Morbis of the Stormlands and their TRM King Evelake Rhyne and Queen Lagertha Rhyne of Vornair.

6/19/2017 7:02:04 PM #5
+1

I'd like to see control of religious relics, artifacts and even smaller items give varying boosts or debuffs. Nothing game changing but along the levels as given between full and empty stomach. Such as a "Properly prepared Janoan Trophy Tree" at a Janoan house no matter the Biome giving a small buff to that Janoan family of their tribal bonuses.


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6/19/2017 7:23:04 PM #6
+0

Posted By Josseline at

My questions for that sort of situation are:

1) Is that sort of scenario even possible outside of heavy dedication to RP, say, with game mechanics?

IIRC; this sort of situation is completely possible and probably happens often. This is a world of conflicts and resolution after all :D

2) With magic in this world strongly hinted at, can we expect divine blessings and curses?

I remember it being mentioned somewhere that you can receive benefits if you are devout in your religion. But like Karik said, "Devs are intentionally vague on it for likely the same reasons they are mum on magic, they want us to find out."

3) Will religious orders be allowed to grow and spread their influence organically, assuming there are any at all?

The ones that devs have release or player made ones?

4) Can a governmental body become a theocracy?

In one of the Q&A the question was asked if we can change the government after launch and the answer was yes. Longer answer is we can research or write laws that allow us to institute other types of government. (Found at CoE Q&A)

5) Can new religions created by players threaten to usurp the long-standing religion(s) of a tribe?

This answer also relates to question 3. Religions created by players will not have any religious benefits. So any religion that is player made will be a cult. (See next answer)

That being said, there is nothing, mechanics wise, that would prevent you from attempting to convert the populous of a tribe. We are still waiting to hear more on how this will work.

6) How will cults be handled?

Depends on the players. I'm sure that something will happen, NPC wise, to avoid conversion to a religion that they are not familiar with but, again, we are waiting to hear more from devs :)

7*) Through extremely rare, unusual, highly unlikely circumstances, can a character become a god (even if that player is then forced to start their next character)?

I don't believe that they have said anything on this topic yet and would be a great question for either the Religion or Open Topic Q&As.

8) Will there be rare but sometimes tangible results for dedicated followers, perhaps less potent but no less desirable than magic?

This is a good question to ask in it's own post IMO to get a feel for desirability from the player base.

(internally prepares for flame) In my humble opinion, there should be no magic and no benefits from religion. You would survive wholly on your skills as a player. Not based on "Talents" or "Magic" or anything supernatural... I know that I'm in the minority here.

9) Will there be a framework for religious institutions, much like there will be for businesses and governmental bodies?

I would assume so based on information they have released regarding organizations and guilds since this is just another type of organization.


Hope it helps...

6/19/2017 7:26:46 PM #7
+0

Good advice on getting in touch with my group's religious leader; hadn't known there would be, but seems my kingdom's large enough for it. I think I'll wind up being fanatically devoted on the off chance I uncover something...


Patientia. Diligentia. Contego.

6/19/2017 7:46:57 PM #8
+1
  1. The devs have said that there will be some sort of mechanical benefits to following one of the in-game religions, though we don't know what those benefits will be. The Neran will have an order of paladins. I would assume that taking some kind of oath will be part of joining that order, but I don't know if oathbreaking would be punished by the game mechanics, or the leaders of the order themselves, or some combination of the two.

  2. As I said, we know there will be benefits to joining a religion, just not what those benefits will be. We definitely don't know if religion will grant mage-like abilities, or merely minor buffs.

  3. My understanding is that there will be religious orders, and they will grow organically - players will choose to join or leave them because they believe in their cause or to gain the benefits associated with them.

  4. No idea. The devs have said we will be able to research new systems of government, so it is possible.

  5. Player created religions will not gain mechanical bonuses like the in-game religions, nor will they be tied into the lore of the world. It seems unlikely they'll be able to compete, but it's probably not impossible.

  6. Cults will be a way players can influence religion. Cults will be based on an existing religion, but will interpret that religion in a different way, or reject some of it's teachings. They will still gain the mechanical bonuses of that religion, but it will evolve into something new.

  7. No idea. I haven't heard anything that would imply it was possible except that there will be liches as well as something that is basically the opposite of a lich on the other side of the alignment spectrum.

  8. We know almost nothing about how the mechanics for religion will work, just that they will exist.

  9. Probably, though my understanding is that different religions will have different structures so the frameworks might differ according to religion.


"All human wisdom is contained in these words: Wait and Hope!"
"May those who accept their fate be granted happiness, may those who defy it be granted glory"

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