There is only so much you can dismantle........

Once you dismantle everything (assuming people don't revolt). then you got nothing left to dismantle anymore.

Edit: I would also like to add, what would be considered greifing in CoE? If griefing is considered just not being able to allow players to play the way they want to then its relatively easy in CoE to do just that.

You want to grief a crafter? Kill them while their outside of town farming resources or keep a monopoly on the local resources somehow.

You want to grief a hunter? Kill them while their outside of town, loot their kill and run away.

Want to grief a king? Steal from the tax collectors and send the money back to the people.

Want to grief a griefer? Stay in a group bigger than theirs and if all else fails scream your location on discord and hope more "friends" are around to help you.

Posted By LukeSpyro at 8:03 PM - Mon Jun 26 2017

There is only so much you can dismantle........

Once you dismantle everything (assuming people don't revolt). then you got nothing left to dismantle anymore.

But because you've dismantled it then that means all those other players will either have to rebuild it or relocate. With each county being the size of 1-2 skyrims relocating to a suitable location sounds like an arduous task to begin with.

And even if they do revolt, that takes time away from them building up their economy or doing what they want to do.

Story points will not be awarded for regular gameplay, from how I understood it. I see skill advancement is there, but I believe the amount of story points one would recieve is very minor.

I also don't believe your examples are entirely accurate- you can't, as a sherrif, just churn out fake bounty tokens and even if you could you wouldn't be able to for long (the person to stand trial would likely be able to defend themselves pretty well, so unless you're also infiltrating the judge and the jury...)

How many building could you make with shoddy equipment without people noticing? Are you the sole person involved in the entire construction? You're gathering materials, and building the building, and laying out the construction plans?

Becoming a king via a causis belli isn't easy, it would take significant investments, both with time and money. Then when you began causing issues a revolt would occur, so your 'griefing' would take a lot of time and ultimately only cause short term issues, unless you also infiltrated a majority of the duke/dutchess positions.

One person only has so much power to grief in here, by the nature of the game. And story points are not going to make it a trivial process-- in fact, you'd be better of paying irl money out the ass to get ahead than using story points, but even then it'd be difficilt (i.e. I could buy me and my friends into significant positions at launch and use those to grief, briefly)

there will be so many ways to grief players in COE its not funy sadly. but there is so many ways to grief people in real life.

2 big ones as i see it to grief a major population would be to burn there food crops just when they about ready for picking...

or find a prized horse breeder and kill all his stock...

find a town prized for its wool and do a silence of the lambs thing...

u guys think way way to small on these things...

now regarding the SP issue well it has been noted and SQUASHED very fast i might add... that one with enough story points could take over a NPC guard for a king then kill said king.... take his royal Ring and dump it down a well never to be found again...

start a fire in the royal archives..... open the back gates for a attack force during a siege...

realy if u think about this SP temp take overs will very much be a thing for those with big wallets....

whats more chilling then just before a major battle a captain in your army in command of a major group of AI it taken over by enemy forces then leads his troops into a trap...

how will u know that the NPC captain is no longer a NPC??? could u figure it out in time save ur men? will u still be able to win the battle now ur battle line is in complete disarray?

yes so short of it is that the options for mayhem is very high but the limits are there.

It's a matter of perspective, one would see that you are greifing others would see a market opportunity.

Posted By mandrake1980 at 02:54 AM - Tue Jun 27 2017

there will be so many ways to grief players in COE its not funy sadly. but there is so many ways to grief people in real life.

And yet it doesn't happen irl particularly often.

>

2 big ones as i see it to grief a major population would be to burn there food crops just when they about ready for picking...

or find a prized horse breeder and kill all his stock...

find a town prized for its wool and do a silence of the lambs thing...

u guys think way way to small on these things...

The problem is, what stops people irl? The consequences of doing them. You won't be able to progress at all ingame, since you won't be able to keep any items if you die every few months, unless you can stash stuff and keep it hidden. You also have to invest a lot of time into a char before you can grief, bc obviously you can't raize a town then continue living in it-- so now you need survival skills, no matter how small a crime. Sneak skills to prevent a manhunt- again, no matter how small the crime- and combat to fight the guys who inevitably catch you.

now regarding the SP issue well it has been noted and SQUASHED very fast i might add... that one with enough story points could take over a NPC guard for a king then kill said king....

A royal guard would be cheaper. It would not be cheap. And most kings won't be putting much trust into NPCs-- least, not the good ones. Also, you can't just start wildfires ingame, although I get the point you were going for.

realy if u think about this SP temp take overs will very much be a thing for those with big wallets....

Big wallets help how? You still have to play a char for enough time to accumulate sp, and being able to rebuy a spark every month wont help you in accumulating sp more than one year of using the same char?

whats more chilling then just before a major battle a captain in your army in command of a major group of AI it taken over by enemy forces then leads his troops into a trap...

Why would you send an AI general into battle, though? Why would you have a 'major group of AI'? Why wouldn't you leave AI to guard during battle, along with some PCs who can assist in defending?

yes so short of it is that the options for mayhem is very high but the limits are there.

The cost of doing so is the problem, though. Are people going to spend ~120/year, plus time building up the char to grief? If so, hey, cool. Conflicts will occur. But it will be fairly difficult to do on a grand enough scale to be worried about, and more difficult than most games out there.

@chloet I will note i could burn a persons farms in the dead of night with no witeness and very likely get away with it. same with taking out the sheep or horses.

i would leave behind clues it was me but this is not CSI... DNA is not a thing and unless i left a signed note saying it was me then if no one saw me the chances of me being punished are very slim.

regarding the army thing hell if i know maybe ur a minor lord with no PCs loyal to him maybe the army is large enought that u have top commanders and mid commanders and not all the mid commanders spots could be filled lol

have a little more imagination my friend :)

regarding ur comments on Story points i agree it will all be based of how fast SP are awarded and the costs involved with taking over certain NPC's

but expecting no one to find a way to exploit this mechanic is like a baby runing foward to hug a bear... sure it could be a nice friendly bear..... more likly it ant gonna be pretty.

Bubbles are nice things to live in right up till they burst...

So you're playing some regular nobody of a player, slowly collecting excess sp year after year, and you finally get enough to take over that guard spot. You do it, and in the process you lose all of your lands and holdings (unless that guard was someone in your bloodline you could will your stuff to). On day one someone notices they don't get the standard NPC response tree or command UI when hailing you anymore and you are killed and kicked out of town. Sounds worth it.

Or you play the game, work your way up to duke in a few years, and successfully launch a CB against a king. Then you tell the other dukes who backed you "lolz, now you owe me 100000000 gp tax suckers!" And those same dukes CB you and you lose everything in a few days. That sounds like fun too.

Posted By Kaynadin at 05:54 AM - Tue Jun 27 2017

So you're playing some regular nobody of a player, slowly collecting excess sp year after year, and you finally get enough to take over that guard spot. You do it, and in the process you lose all of your lands and holdings (unless that guard was someone in your bloodline you could will your stuff to). On day one someone notices they don't get the standard NPC response tree or command UI when hailing you anymore and you are killed and kicked out of town. Sounds worth it.

Or you play the game, work your way up to duke in a few years, and successfully launch a CB against a king. Then you tell the other dukes who backed you "lolz, now you owe me 100000000 gp tax suckers!" And those same dukes CB you and you lose everything in a few days. That sounds like fun too.

In response to your first line, you don't need SP to start as something small like the town guard, or local blacksmith. Also, killing you/kicking you out of the town would be illegal.

The dukes won't sit idly by while the king "takes" everything they own. The dukes don't even have to pay that sum if they don't want to. What would happen, is that the dukes launch their own CB via favor, and take the thrown away from the new king.

If for some reason the dukes don't do anything, and raise their taxes to afford the fee, then the people below them, upset about the raised taxes, launch a CB on the dukes.

Lastly, the Dukes could declare themselves independent from the king (or in other words, declare themselves king) and not pay their taxes at all.

We had a design journal on this, you realize.

While this game will offer lots and lots of possibilities to grief others, many people won't grief, actually they will stick together and help each other. So its only a matter of time when griefer is exposed and dealt with.

I wouldn't be so sure that it will be profitable and fun griefing other players. Keep in mind that every action has consequence.

@kaynadin arh yes prices of NPC's have not be placed for story points only the statement that those in higher power and with lands will have a SP cost equal to there value.

plus u need SP points to inherit.... which i think u were referring too there some place but just sounded like u were saying using SP points to get the guard makes u lose the lands u owned which made no sense.

if they locking it to the soul it would limit this form of tactic but people could still make a alt gain enough SP on it to do that masterstroke of a move...

who knows maybe haveing that alt adventurer for years unlocking all those secrets gaining all that SP with be worth it :)

if it could tip the scales of a battle that could determine a war then well time well spent if the rewards are given.

While I'm not sure how a Yoru would function as a ninja I do appreciate the imagery so great name!

Largely your concerns seem to have been met by our fellow community members but I would like to add something.

When not if someone manages to become king and ends up ticking off their Dukes and causing a massive civil war it wouldn't be griefing it is good game design. Most mmos you race to max level grind for BiS gear and set around in your legendary mount talking about how easy the game is till then next Xpac comes out. In CoE if you do this likely someone will sneak up behind you, kill you and steal your stuff.

There would be an incredible story behind the rise of the usurper. How he/she gathered enough followers and supplies to overthrow an established king. The struggle to actually gain the thrown then their fall into madness as they attempted to destroy the kingdom they likely spent several life times gathering the power needed to take over. Then the rise of the plucky rebels who seek to overthrow their emperor...king. (Seems like I may have seen that movie... 😜)

In short while you have some legitimate concerns all the way from the mundane (crooked builder) to the fantastic the fall of a dark king they are actually really good plot/story hooks for player made content and I look forward to living through them myself.

What a patetic post... destroying instead of building.. you must be unhappy in Rl