It doesn't even need to be done manually, potentially let the game track the numbers, along with population changes, number of families, number of crimes committed, etc. I'd love to have all these stats, especially if it can be viewed collectively over time so you can see the changes your realm has gone through.
NA-W "Angelica"
Posted By Valycia at 3:32 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
It doesn't even need to be done manually, potentially let the game track the numbers, along with population changes, number of families, number of crimes committed, etc.
I'd like for it to be done at least semi-manually, so counts have a chance to play the deviant and lie about how much money they make.
I don't think I'd be very good at laundering money, I'm bad with money maths.
Most people join kingdoms not just for economics, if that is the case then why bother having 6 kingdoms in a server of everyone joins the kingdom that has 5% more GDP then the rest.
People join based on the community and how the kingdom is run.
Posted By Lunaus at 1:12 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
I don't think I'd be very good at laundering money, I'm bad with money maths.
Being bad at money maths is a good excuse for why your numbers don't add up when someone comes checking...
Posted By Maulvorn at 4:38 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
Most people join kingdoms not just for economics, if that is the case then why bother having 6 kingdoms in a server of everyone joins the kingdom that has 5% more GDP then the rest.
People join based on the community and how the kingdom is run.
That might be true of you, but you are hardly indicative of the entirety of the population. In addition to providing players with useful metrics by which to measure kingdoms, it can also be useful for Kings to know what laws were effective at helping its citizens and what laws ended up hurting them. If you try to modify taxes in order to better more people's standards of living, but wind up seeing a higher Gini coefficient coupled with a lower GDP, there's a good chance you actually made things worse for the general population and should probably repeal that law.
Posted By mickdude2 at 10:05 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
Posted By Maulvorn at 4:38 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
Most people join kingdoms not just for economics, if that is the case then why bother having 6 kingdoms in a server of everyone joins the kingdom that has 5% more GDP then the rest.
People join based on the community and how the kingdom is run.
That might be true of you, but you are hardly indicative of the entirety of the population. In addition to providing players with useful metrics by which to measure kingdoms, it can also be useful for Kings to know what laws were effective at helping its citizens and what laws ended up hurting them. If you try to modify taxes in order to better more people's standards of living, but wind up seeing a higher Gini coefficient coupled with a lower GDP, there's a good chance you actually made things worse for the general population and should probably repeal that law.
Your average player who just bought the game at launch isn't really going to care about %% GDP, they will care more about the political landscape, the story and community IMO.
Very important to have this information, even at the count level.
Great idea +1
Posted By Maulvorn at 5:50 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
Posted By mickdude2 at 10:05 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
Posted By Maulvorn at 4:38 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
Most people join kingdoms not just for economics, if that is the case then why bother having 6 kingdoms in a server of everyone joins the kingdom that has 5% more GDP then the rest.
People join based on the community and how the kingdom is run.
That might be true of you, but you are hardly indicative of the entirety of the population. In addition to providing players with useful metrics by which to measure kingdoms, it can also be useful for Kings to know what laws were effective at helping its citizens and what laws ended up hurting them. If you try to modify taxes in order to better more people's standards of living, but wind up seeing a higher Gini coefficient coupled with a lower GDP, there's a good chance you actually made things worse for the general population and should probably repeal that law.
Your average player who just bought the game at launch isn't really going to care about %% GDP, they will care more about the political landscape, the story and community IMO.
Then they don't have to use it- they can base their kingdom choice on something like who has the prettiest coat of arms. But for anyone who wants to look at hard numbers to make decisions they put hard money into? The ability to measure kingdoms objectively is invaluable.
In addition, if that random player becomes a Count or Duke, I'm willing to bet they're gonna want metrics on their new lands. What laws are good for their people? What laws are good for the right people? What taxes are helping the lower classes, and what taxes are hurting? How the hell would you even know without numbers like GDP?
Posted By mickdude2 at 9:34 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
Posted By Valycia at 3:32 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
It doesn't even need to be done manually, potentially let the game track the numbers, along with population changes, number of families, number of crimes committed, etc.
I'd like for it to be done at least semi-manually, so counts have a chance to play the deviant and lie about how much money they make.
I would imagine it with letters going back and forth between the noblemen and higher ups.
Those would be forms that ask for an annual/regular report.
Then the count would send letters to the mayors/barons to ask for a list of what they've produced and what shops they've got etc.
Alternatively, one could have another job for this (similar to the tax collector).
But I can see shop owners and "companies" who don't want to share their financial numbers or who don't track their numbers because they don't like to look at them or get busy with that.
Then there would be special cases such as companies at the borders of counties/kingdoms who produce and sell partially mixed in either of the regions (might be a location with 3 counties at a trade route crossing).
What I don't like to see is magical automatic tracking:
Instead have a player of NPC take care of the numbers on all levels. Delegate if you as a player don't feel like handling it.
And I expect that although the system has got benefits to improve the kingdom's economic environment, there will be many players who think of tracking numbers as an additional cost and nuisance for their small bakery. Furthermore, with a lot of private trading with friends and family members going on, items would change their owner on a frequent basis and nobody would feel inclined or happy to report those 'minor' actions.
While kings have probably kept track on taxes and big projects (such as building bridges and religious structures), I doubt they were looking into every shop's finances.
There are still countries today who don't ask for those numbers - it is a concept we've grown accustomed to but in no way necessary for the medieval king experience.
Personally, I could see a system that only tracks major monetary flows as well as supported projects:
The important part is that you can never know if the numbers are correct. That is part of a good experience for the noblemen because it's alot about deligating tasks to people they can rely on.
Great OP. I'm a strategy gamer and I love economic number crunching.
However, I gotta say part of say the appeal to me for a medieval setting is the absence (or at least daunting imprecision) of these contemporary disciplines and nomenclature. I see it as Moonchaser does.
I don't think for 1 second Kairos won't have spreadsheets tighter than most small businesses. Monarchs are gonna play this strategy game to the hilt the best they can.
But I think for medieval Elyria, doing it ought to be extremely hard. Discord is going to accelerate communications more than enough as it is. The game is suppose to foster RP by just playing the game--let local leaders capture data by one-on-one "meeting Jesus" moments if they dare, and let's see how much accuracy makes it to royal court at the end of the day.
Posted By MoonChaser at 8:06 PM - Fri Jul 21 2017
And I expect that although the system has got benefits to improve the kingdom's economic environment, there will be many players who think of tracking numbers as an additional cost and nuisance for their small bakery. Furthermore, with a lot of private trading with friends and family members going on, items would change their owner on a frequent basis and nobody would feel inclined or happy to report those 'minor' actions.
I think this will be one of the areas kingdoms will have to make a hard choice on. Do they want to burden their small businesses with tedious paperwork, but gain a finger on the pulse of their economy, or do they want to step away from the small town economy and potentially get blindsided by economic hardship from a vanished middle class? There are pros and cons to both, but I think kingdoms should have the option to weigh those pros and cons for themselves.
Even today, GDP does not represent anything real. It's a useful fiction at best, and in barter/subsistence economy such as the Middle Ages and presumably CoE, it's a much less useful fiction. It's especially terrible at measuring "quality of life" although it is often pressed into this service.
Microeconomics will be important, though, especially for Counts. Put another way: if I'm a blacksmith, I don't care much at all what the king taxes (as long as it's not too much) but I care very much about the reserves of iron ore for my forge.
Join the (NA-W) County of Kalevasuo, explore the harvestable, craftable world, research alchemical concoctions, develop tools of warfare and test them on the battlefield!
From the sounds of it, you don't want to play a game. You want to work. Ugh no thanks.
And Discord will ultimately ruin the in game immersiveness, at least where information and communication is concerned. You expect people to just simply rely on in game letters? Lol and how bout that rule of only private messaging your family? Did the developers not factor in Discord? Teamspeak? Skype? Do they not know that most gaming groups of friends tend to communicate this way when gaming together? The rest of the game sounds good. I just don't understand what they thought to accomplish with pushing towards in game communication.
House BloodBeard - Kill the boy, let the man be born
~~All Hail the Lord of Fire~~
Posted By Huntsmaster at 3:19 PM - Sun Jul 23 2017
Even today, GDP does not represent anything real. It's a useful fiction at best, and in barter/subsistence economy such as the Middle Ages and presumably CoE, it's a much less useful fiction. It's especially terrible at measuring "quality of life" although it is often pressed into this service.
Microeconomics will be important, though, especially for Counts. Put another way: if I'm a blacksmith, I don't care much at all what the king taxes (as long as it's not too much) but I care very much about the reserves of iron ore for my forge.
I disagree, I think GDP is very tangible. The macroeconomics of this game will be very important, regardless of your concern for the reserves of iron ore. Everything around you will be affected by it; the royal taxes you pay, the military that protects you, the roads you will drive on, and the contracts you might get from your count or duke. All of that is dependent on what the King sees in the GDP.
Posted By CptBloodBeard at 3:48 PM - Sun Jul 23 2017
From the sounds of it, you don't want to play a game. You want to work. Ugh no thanks.
Regardless of how you feel about these numbers, they will be in the game. I'm just asking for a system for nobles to view them. Just because you don't want to look at numbers doesn't mean the rest of us agree. I, for one, would very much like to look at the affects of duchy-wide or kingdom-wide laws.
I don't know how the complaints of Discord's immersiveness relate to the economics of kingdoms..
