COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Why so much disregard for stoneless architectures ?

One of the feelings you have going thru the forums is that for a sizable part of the community, stone is the alpha and omega of civil and military architecture, that would give a tremendous advantage to the Domains using it compared to those stuck with lower quality architecture not using stone, that standing and wealth could not apply to anything but stone buildings which would imply that nobles and grand civil buildings could not use anything else but stone architecture.

As i decided to search earth exemple of both military and grand civil architecture not using stone, i took a look back at the tribes infos to be sure not to miss anything of each architecture constraints.

What will follow has no relation to what actual tribe architectural style might be, we only seen Neran examples so far and i have no idea of what other tribes building will look like. But i'm confident that if we managed to do it on earth they managed to do it on Elyria.

i'll start with a paragraph for each of the 5 tribe not using stone as a primary material for architecture, then add a 6th for military architecture.


7/22/2017 2:39:04 PM #1

Brudvir

Housing

  • Wood (Primary)
  • Stone (Secondary)

Architecture

Due to the natural abundance, Brudvir architecture is mainly composed of cedar and other tall conifers which are native to the Taiga and Alpine Forest. Sometimes just looking like log cabins, the wealthier Alpha and Beta members of society take time to cut timber from the logs in order to create pleasant-looking framed houses. Due to the Brudvir's talent for carpentry it's not uncommon to see nicely cut square-cornered buildings with reliefs carved into the boards. Similarly, carvings of animals and Mann often adorn the Brudvir buildings and structures.

  • Shack

  • Cottage

  • House

  • Town House

  • Villa

  • Manor

  • Castle


7/22/2017 2:39:12 PM #2

Janoa

Housing

  • Wood (Primary)
  • Animal Skin
  • Leaves (Primary)

Architecture

Their homes reflect their culture's Hunt-centric mentality. Homes regularly feature a dedicated trophy room, as well as areas for the many herbs, medicines, and hunting equipment they use. Insulation against the rain is near-ubiquitous, with only the poorest lacking it. Homes are typically situated on short stilts to keep them level over the roots and vines criss-crossing the jungle floor, and also to keep the home from sinking into the mud when it rains.

  • Shack

  • Cottage

  • House

  • Town House

  • Villa

  • Manor

my Janoa's pick are all from different part of Indonesia, i'll add a few images that should explain why i sticked to Indonesia for them


7/22/2017 2:39:22 PM #3

Dras

Housing

  • Wood
  • Black Rock (Jet)
  • Mud

Architecture

The Dras are a complicated people, and a people of balance. The outside of their homes are rather drab looking, often times blending into the swamp and are simple in shape; either domes, cones, or boxes constructed with clays, formed branches, and sometimes a bit of Jet. The higher social classes or those with more wealth may build their houses out of Jet or other stronger materials, in order to afford additional protection from the elements. There is a certain whimsy in the austere buildings, however, as the Dras try to achieve structural and aesthetic balance on the unstable swamp. Their homes sit above the water on stilts, but may include a hole or compartment to access the waters below. Public buildings and store houses tend to be built on land, where possible, and where the land is not being used for farming or other swampland agriculture.

That one is hard because no one live in swamps on earth and the only exemples of daub houses on stilt that i found are all from the savanna, i tried to use them but it felt like robing the Owem, so if you have any idea shoot!

  • Shack

  • Cottage

  • House

  • Town House

  • Villa

  • Manor


7/22/2017 2:39:31 PM #4

Kypiq

Housing

  • Leaves, Branches (Modular Pieces of Trees) (Primary)
  • Wood (Ironwood) (Primary)

Architecture

Using the trees themselves as their foundation, they employ an additive style of architecture, rather than subtractive. What this means is that, to the smallest degree possible, they leave the trees unchanged and take only what is needed from them in order to create their physical infrastructure.

Housing is done on a per-family basis, similar to the Neran style of housing. Communities are rather tightly-knit, and families living closely to one another in proximity are close socially as well, resulting in much co-habitation of certain spaces.

The wealthier, or cleverer, live higher among the canopies then others, with the Steward of the Forest living in the strongest and tallest tree.

They have developed an intricately-constructed zipline system in order to travel from one tree to another without ever setting foot on the ground.

An other hard one, because most of the tree house on earth are made with processed wood, which is a no go for the Kypiq. What i found is the The Korowai Tribe, their tree houses are impressive, but they all have the same size so not fitting into the tier system, anyone with a better find feel free to post for me to update.

  • Shack

  • Cottage

  • House

  • Town House

  • Villa

  • Manor


7/22/2017 2:39:41 PM #5

To'resk

Housing

  • Stilted Housing
  • Rice-paper
  • Wood
  • Vegetation
  • Mud/Clay

Architecture

The building materials in the wetlands include softwoods, fibers, clays, and muds. Because the To'resk must deal with high water, alligators, and boar, stilted houses just makes sense. Sturdy, wide timber is rare so most choose to create thatched or wattle and daub structures on a deck of branches. Among the affluent, imported hardwoods allow for more sturdy structures but, even in the absence of superior lumber, enjoy a style of parquetry and wood joint techniques that create broad and strong boards for building. It is exceptionally time consuming and takes great craftsmanship - perfect for the patient To'resk - and features mesmerizing geometric patterns as a result. Rice paper is also commonly used among all social classes as a cheap and simple way to keep the rain out and provide privacy.

When i read their description, the one architecture that came to my mind for the To'resk was japanese, the use of paper and superior wood joints and parquetry qeemed right on spot, but japanese houses tend to be built only a few tens of centimeters away from the soil and use stone or packed earth for foundations. I'd love to be wrong and have them japanese style.

  • Shack

  • Cottage

  • House

  • Town House

  • Manor


7/22/2017 2:39:51 PM #6

Military

For military defensive positions the location is way more importent than the materials used to build the position.

As soon as the attacker can not get inside the defended position without the use of sapper/engineer and /or siege weapons, the job is done. The Romans were masters of siege warfare and their military positions used either bricks or earth and wood, not stones.

  • Trelleborgen: Viking reconstructed fort, Denmark

  • Slawenburg Raddusch, The Slave castle at Raddusch in Spree forest

And many many more exemples can be found of impressive and effective fortifications made without stone.

Elyria's civilisations, the tribes, have been around for centuries, if one was week and ill protected it would have fallen a long time ago.


7/22/2017 2:40:00 PM #7

The Waerd

Housing

  • Sculpted rock housing (higher classes)
  • Pueblo mud housing (middle classes)
  • Cavern dwellings (lower classes)

Architecture

The Waerd have a range of architecture depending on social class. The lowest members of society take rooms inside naturally forming caves and caverns. These structured created over the years through wind and water eriosion. The slightly more elevated make mud or brick housing outside of the caves and caverns, giving more ready access to farmable land. Finally, those chosen by The Two-Fold Queen to lead the Servants build housing and structures directly into the hills and mesas, often in bowls or valleys formed by erosion.

I added the Waerd for the medium tier housing, i has the Mesa Verde Native American village in mind but got confused, with what the higher tier housing would be ? had initially thought about Petra but now i'm not sure

  • Shack/Cottage

  • House/Town House

  • Villa/Manor


7/22/2017 2:40:47 PM #8

resev08


7/22/2017 2:56:47 PM #9

I am very much looking forward to the wood style of The Brudvir.


7/22/2017 3:35:31 PM #10

I think part of the focus on stone as the choice that everyone wants comes from the desire for a strong defense from attackers. People want a safe place to rest and store their goods. Stone walls and a stone house are more difficult to break into than a place with a wooden fence and rice paper or thatch walls you can just slice open.


7/22/2017 4:14:16 PM #11

Posted By Kaynadin at 08:35 AM - Sat Jul 22 2017

I think part of the focus on stone as the choice that everyone wants comes from the desire for a strong defense from attackers. People want a safe place to rest and store their goods. Stone walls and a stone house are more difficult to break into than a place with a wooden fence and rice paper or thatch walls you can just slice open.

Well, stone may be harder to destroy, but bear in mind that most of the biomes have natural defenses. For example, can you really bring siege equipment into a swamp, or wetlands? Heck, it explicitly says in the To'resk write-up that siege equipment is nearly impossible to bring into their territory.

It may be possibly to clear-cut forests to get the the Janoa and Kypiq, but at that point, you're a sitting duck at their boarder, waiting to be attacked by an enemy you can't see coming.

As for the Brudvir, they could use stone due to their proximity/alliance to the Hrothi, but if the devs wanted, they could have a mud season in Brudvir territory (remember that a season is about 4 days long).


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7/22/2017 5:18:41 PM #12

True, there are natural defenses to stop a siege engine. But they won't stop a theif from getting through a weak wall. Or a griefer from easily tearing apart your house if it's made of paper or other easily destroyed materials. Though sbs could just ignore the wall materials and say that house walls are one of X tiers and each tier has a certain strength and resistance to damage regardless of material used.


7/22/2017 6:48:24 PM #13

Posted By Kaynadin at 08:35 AM - Sat Jul 22 2017

I think part of the focus on stone as the choice that everyone wants comes from the desire for a strong defense from attackers. People want a safe place to rest and store their goods. Stone walls and a stone house are more difficult to break into than a place with a wooden fence and rice paper or thatch walls you can just slice open.

Actually, we don't really know this. That is more of a simplistic view of Stone vs Wood that is present in most games. Will that be the case in CoE? We don't know.


7/23/2017 5:32:22 AM #14

i think it is not so simple to look at why we choose stone over other products.

for one we see stone as more enduring but as shown above there are some wooden structures that can last a long time in certain environments.

another is as was refered already in this thread the defence or secuirty aspect of stone. a mud house would be easyer to brake down a wall and loot the house then it would if u had to brake thru stone.

there is also the maintaince aspects. stone can wear away over eons but depending on the type of stone (sand stone for instance would wear away faster then granit) this may not be true. wood on the other hand would require more reglure maintance as it ages and decays faster then stone.

but like the devs point out certain biomes like swamps wont do well with stone as they have no solid ground to place it on and it will eventualt sink. but this is true of any heavy objects even a wooden house that is to large would start to sink due to its combined wight. that being said wood also has some boeyancy but all comes down to the wight.

but the majoirty of the biomes i feel stone could be used in without ill effects like grass lands, forests, jungles, deserts, mountains and alpines forests would be able to use stone to great effect without maintances based issues. and if there is higher maintance on stone in those locations there gonna be alot of explaining why that is so.


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7/23/2017 7:39:10 AM #15

Might be better to consider wood though. Even if stone is superior in defense, wood is usually superior in cost efficiency and availability. Depending on what resources are in your area, nobles might decide to reserve any stone for themselves if it isn't plentiful, leaving the common Mann little option but to build with the less expensive materials. And if you live somewhere where you can't quarry stone at all, the only people who are going to have it are going to be wealthy enough to import it. Not everyone is going to be wealthy. Or maybe even sometimes wood will just be less hassle. Easier to obtain, easier to replace, easier to transport in bulk because it weighs less, less skill to shape (unless you're Brudvir, you woodcarving perfectionists you). Yeah, the stone will last you longer, if it's available and affordable. But I can think of a few biomes where it won't be.


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