Posted By Death at 1:36 PM - Wed Aug 16 2017

Posted By Kurko at 03:04 AM - Wed Aug 16 2017

I truly hope the would not be different modes to do different things. It is very far from intuitive user experience if one needs to wear a beer drinking cap in a tavern to drink beer, but start a brawl, one needs to take of the beer cap and put on a brawling cap before he can punch someone (caps = modes). One should be able to do all normal things when ever. If I carry a bow in my hand, that is enough to shoot.

Skills and factors in archery are pretty easily listed:

Strength -> stronger bow can be used for longer distance and more punch. However strength does not give anything extra if the bow is week. Stamina -> one can aim longer before aiming starts to shake in fatigue. Accuracy -> aiming time and experience increases accuracy and decreases deviation. Agility -> how quickly one can nock the next arrow. Something else? Did I miss something?

The rest is up to the stats of the bow and the arrows.

I wouldn't call them modes the way you are thinking. combat mode means you are holding your weapon with the intent to use it as a weapon instead of walking around town holding your sword.

An example of a bar fight, if you held a bottle in your hand and interacted you would drink from the bottle, if you went into a combat mode, you might break the bottle on a table and hold it jagged edge out.

This makes it very clear what your intentions with the items are so you don't have people walking up to you and instantly stabbing you, you will have an indicator of what is about to transpire.

Though my question I guess then would be for the characters seeking to assassins and the like. How would that translate if going into combat mode instantly alerts everyone? Why can't the bottle be broken over the first person's head and the jagged glass be used on the next? An event suddenly happening. Shocking, where players then scramble, rather than everyone knowing bottle-boy's got beef.

Are you worried players will start to complain if the man beside him switches into combat mode without appearing like he did before he took the swing...kinda takes the fun out of being assassinated knowing they are there to kill you rather than never knowing, which keeps you on your toes.

Posted By Proteus at 7:24 PM - Wed Aug 16 2017

Posted By Death at 1:36 PM - Wed Aug 16 2017

Posted By Kurko at 03:04 AM - Wed Aug 16 2017

I truly hope the would not be different modes to do different things. It is very far from intuitive user experience if one needs to wear a beer drinking cap in a tavern to drink beer, but start a brawl, one needs to take of the beer cap and put on a brawling cap before he can punch someone (caps = modes). One should be able to do all normal things when ever. If I carry a bow in my hand, that is enough to shoot.

Skills and factors in archery are pretty easily listed:

Strength -> stronger bow can be used for longer distance and more punch. However strength does not give anything extra if the bow is week. Stamina -> one can aim longer before aiming starts to shake in fatigue. Accuracy -> aiming time and experience increases accuracy and decreases deviation. Agility -> how quickly one can nock the next arrow. Something else? Did I miss something?

The rest is up to the stats of the bow and the arrows.

I wouldn't call them modes the way you are thinking. combat mode means you are holding your weapon with the intent to use it as a weapon instead of walking around town holding your sword.

An example of a bar fight, if you held a bottle in your hand and interacted you would drink from the bottle, if you went into a combat mode, you might break the bottle on a table and hold it jagged edge out.

This makes it very clear what your intentions with the items are so you don't have people walking up to you and instantly stabbing you, you will have an indicator of what is about to transpire.

Though my question I guess then would be for the characters seeking to assassins and the like. How would that translate if going into combat mode instantly alerts everyone? Why can't the bottle be broken over the first person's head and the jagged glass be used on the next? An event suddenly happening. Shocking, where players then scramble, rather than everyone knowing bottle-boy's got beef.

Are you worried players will start to complain if the man beside him switches into combat mode without appearing like he did before he took the swing...kinda takes the fun out of being assassinated knowing they are there to kill you rather than never knowing, which keeps you on your toes.

Or they are worried about the game devolving into the need to KoS anyone you see with a weapon because 15% could attack you at any moment without warning, which creates a culture shift and 15 becomes 30 becomes 60 becomes 99.

I would rather be nervous about death, than force it to be easy to know who your friend and enemy is

I want to see a Kypiq with a massive Longbow now...

I'm pretty sure the key here is game mechanics and control. Having a "combat mode" means that you can enter a fighting stance at any time regardless of what you're holding. It also means that you can be holding a weapon without actively waving it around. All you have to do is press the button and bam, you're ready to battle.

It also allows the combat control scheme and movement to be different from while you're just walking around. It would look silly to always be in a fighting stance, having it tied to a button press makes sense.

Posted By Death at 8:36 PM - Wed Aug 16 2017

I wouldn't call them modes the way you are thinking. combat mode means you are holding your weapon with the intent to use it as a weapon instead of walking around town holding your sword.

An example of a bar fight, if you held a bottle in your hand and interacted you would drink from the bottle, if you went into a combat mode, you might break the bottle on a table and hold it jagged edge out.

This makes it very clear what your intentions with the items are so you don't have people walking up to you and instantly stabbing you, you will have an indicator of what is about to transpire.

Why not just use a different button for drinking from the bottle and hitting with it? No modes needed. If I have drawn a sword out, I would not want to switch between different modes by pushing different keys. The intentions are in my head and they should not be visible to others as different kind of movement or anything else. Please no modes, no banana eating hats. They are bad practice in all kinds of sofware.

[edit:] Maybe entering a different mode could be tolerated in building houses, etc., but not in normal everyday gaming interaction. The coders might think in modes, but it should be invisible to users. Simply holding an item should allow all the different usages and actions available to that particular item... use, hit, drop, throw, insert,...

I kinda like the combat mode idea. It happens in real life. Just a fraction of a second before something happens. Eg. If this guy said something to me to insult me. My body language would change if it affected me. Lets say i want to punch him in the face now. My body would reflect my new intention. I would turn my body and close my fists. Its a small change you might not see from a distance but i am effectively in combat mode. Then i get ready for a punch. There is a second of readying it and aiming for his face. Then i let loose. Usually peoples intentions are manifested in their posture or demeanor before they commit to an action. However maybe only let astute characters see this combat mode change. It shouldn't be super obvious. Like it can be obvious when someone is angry but you don't know he's going to hit you. Only that he is angry

One other possible reason for combat mode in a game that will use collision detection for damage: no accidentally damaging someone else with that sword you're holding. Without combat mode what happens if I trigger an action to set the sword down and the blade bumps into someone and cuts them? Am I a deviant now and open to be attacked? Or what if I'm just walking down the street holding a weapon and someone steps out in front of me causing me to stab them? Am I open game then? Without some trigger to tell the system that yes I am trying to hurt people you'd run into all kinds of accidental situations like above when moving anything around with no way to tell what was an accident and thus, no way to tell whether your act of damaging someone was a defensive or offensive act.

How many different modes does one need? Combat mode, eating mode, talking mode, jousting mode, modeing mode? NO! Please!

One does not walk down the street with a drawn weapon in hand just for no reason. He would be a threat, guards would react to him, etc. Just imagine walking down the street in RL with a gun in your hand. Also, there should be no damage from bumping into a weapon, or stepping on one on the ground. That would not make sense in a game. I bet the devs will make it so that a hitting action is required.

If one goes down the mode road, how many will there be? Mode after mode after mode. And clicking the left mouse button will do different things in different modes, right? That would be a disaster! Just imagine a life threatening situation where you are carrying your weapon and try to hit the enemy, but you've forgotten to enter the combat mode and your mouse click drops the weapon instead of swinging it. Nice, eh?

No, we dont enter modes in RL. We just do different actions with different items

I think people are overthinking combat mode, as far as I imagine it based on what's been said so far is that going into combat mode would be simply drawing your weapon.

As far as the concern about accidentally hitting someone while doing something else then I imagine that it would be handled as it would in real life where the person who got hit would either get pissed and do something about it or brush it off to avoid confrontation.

Really, all other video game experiences either put you in a permanent combat mode or have it so that your first attack action would draw your weapon instead so I can't imagine a reason for SBS to make it more complicated then that.

Edit: Also to add on, if combat made was activated by some other hotkey, then personally it would feel kinda clunky and unintuitive giving a slightly steeper learning curve as your breaking down muscle memory gained from previous games to essentially relearn how to use your character... it also doesn't really fit with the whole "reusing systems" thing SBS got going on.

Not sure why people are overthinking these modes.

Play Skyrim. Unsheath your weapon.

You are now in combat mode. The music changes, your animations change, NPC reactions to you change.

That's a game that, statistically, everyone alive and some who aren't have played and it's exactly like what Death described above.

Posted By Quintero at 7:11 PM - Sat Aug 19 2017

Not sure why people are overthinking these modes.

Play Skyrim. Unsheath your weapon.

You are now in combat mode. The music changes, your animations change, NPC reactions to you change.

That's a game that, statistically, everyone alive and some who aren't have played and it's exactly like what Death described above.

I really and truly hope this will be the case. I admit that I am overly sensitive to separate modes being mentioned. Maybe I misunderstood the example of jousting procedures. Coming from usability, ux/ui background I am simply allergic to mode approach, which is often suggested by coders. They usually think in terms of coding, disregarding the intuitive human interaction :\

Skyrim and other ES-series single player games (not ESO) are very good examples of intuitive controls.