COMMUNITY - FORUMS - SOULBORN ENGINE
How far should we expect tech to advance?
+1

As the title says, what do you guys think is the most advanced technology that'll ever come to CoE? I think that it'll be almost a certainty that tech advances up to the invention of gunpowder and the rise of weapons like muskets, but I have no idea how much further it'll go. Maybe up until, or just before Industrial Revolution-like tech?


"Griffith Did Nothing Wrong"

Friend Code: 9AA6A4

8/9/2017 6:55:24 PM #31
+0

Did they not say that the devs will regulate the progress of tech? I seem to remember this.

So they prolly got the end game tech in mind, and will allow gradual progress so that it lasts 10 years. Is how I imagine it.

Cuz you know..they have to program it for it to be in game.


House BloodBeard - Kill the boy, let the man be born

~~All Hail the Lord of Fire~~

8/9/2017 7:03:40 PM #32
-1

They said that they would regulate when it would be available. They never mentioned if you could stall that progress or even set it back somewhat if even a little.

I believe they have it all planned out too. Ill even give it a go if I am around long enough to see it. I just want there to be positive and negative parts to crafting, owning, and opperating them properly as so it does not completely unbalance the game to needing them exclusively.


8/9/2017 7:44:03 PM #33
+2

Posted By RedAngel at 2:03 PM - Wed Aug 09 2017

They said that they would regulate when it would be available. They never mentioned if you could stall that progress or even set it back somewhat if even a little.

I believe they have it all planned out too. Ill even give it a go if I am around long enough to see it. I just want there to be positive and negative parts to crafting, owning, and opperating them properly as so it does not completely unbalance the game to needing them exclusively.

The way Caspian said it would be handled in his PAX East 2017 presentation (there is a video floating around somewhere).

I'm paraphrasing here.

Was they would see that enough people on the server were trying to research XYZ say flight, then they might release gliders (EDIT: on that specific server).

or if enough alchemists were researching how to make things go boom. Then that is how a patch releasing black powder would come about (EDIT: on that specific server). .

ect

EDIT: Caspian's Presentation on youtube


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8/9/2017 8:04:39 PM #34
+0

Yea I think that's what I was remembering lol. Thanks!

Interesting concept. But I would imagine they'd stagger it right? Can't have end game tech in just several months


House BloodBeard - Kill the boy, let the man be born

~~All Hail the Lord of Fire~~

8/9/2017 9:57:49 PM #35
+0

Posted By CptBloodBeard at 3:04 PM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Yea I think that's what I was remembering lol. Thanks!

Interesting concept. But I would imagine they'd stagger it right? Can't have end game tech in just several months

yeah it will be incremental steps forward.

like guns are projected to take at least 7 IRL years to reach I believe is what i saw or read somewhere.


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8/9/2017 10:02:53 PM #36
-1

Posted By Desdark at 02:54 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By RedAngel at 03:41 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

I would personally not have guns at all since it would drive off a ton of people but I hope that to some extent you can go and take peoples research back down into the dark ages with enough effort.

A ton? WoW, GW2 and FF XIV = Guns.

I dont think mmorpg gamers avoid guns in fantasy setups...

In those game a gun shot deals as much as a sword swing. They also provided a plethora of CC to "catch" ranged weapon users. Along with the fact that it generally takes over a hundred of those gunshots to actually kill you where as in a game with CoE's design on this simulation it might take 2 or 3. Their is also counterplay partly in that CC I mentioned earlier. Something that won't really be a thing in CoE. In all games I have played with ranged characters, on demand CC has been the basis of their counterplay or dodge mechanics with enemy skillshot projection built in the game like GW2.

When someone pulls a gun on you in CoE, the only "counter-play" is:

  • Hope their gun is shit and explodes

  • Hope they miss.

  • Pray that your armor might deflect it

There is nothing that you can do with player skill to gain an upper-hand that a player or lesser skill couldn't. I guess if they added skill-shot projection there would be. Compare this to the counterplay we can observe from the LIMITED combat we have been exposed to in coe.

We know that you can:

  • Parry
  • Block
  • Dodge (swords don't move at sonic speeds.)
  • Disarm
  • Grapple
  • Prioritizing Limbs
  • Vital Point Accuracy

Almost all of these mechanics are eliminated in a gun vs sword fight. Unless I'm forgetting some counterplay mechanics for melee on ranged match ups, CoE balancing will most likely not support much gun-play.


Don't mistake passion and tenacity for toxicity and anger. If I want to hurt you, I will.

8/13/2017 5:43:43 AM #37
+0

@Takeda_Shinukage

I would assume that having one early is a result of having all the appropriate skills trained for several years of your life.

For a pistol or rifle: a muzzle loaded pistol has one shot, and no rifling, this means it has a very limited effective range and only one shot. The best use you will get in an engagement would be one shot at the effective range and switch to melee, or bayonet.

You should look up "Napoleonic Tactics"

The early gun is best suited for a range-melee hybrid, otherwise what makes it better than a crossbow on horseback?

I think a musket dragoon would be fun, and relatively balanced to an archer on horseback. (how far sound carries being a strategic factor as well in small scale engagement or covert operation)

However a steampunk racer would be epic af... Levers, not enough levers... it has 3 gears, for each set of wheels. forward, neutral, and reverse. There is a brake for the right set and the left set as well.


8/13/2017 12:33:16 PM #38
+2

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 6:02 PM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By Desdark at 02:54 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By RedAngel at 03:41 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

I would personally not have guns at all since it would drive off a ton of people but I hope that to some extent you can go and take peoples research back down into the dark ages with enough effort.

A ton? WoW, GW2 and FF XIV = Guns.

I dont think mmorpg gamers avoid guns in fantasy setups...

In those game a gun shot deals as much as a sword swing. They also provided a plethora of CC to "catch" ranged weapon users. Along with the fact that it generally takes over a hundred of those gunshots to actually kill you where as in a game with CoE's design on this simulation it might take 2 or 3. Their is also counterplay partly in that CC I mentioned earlier. Something that won't really be a thing in CoE. In all games I have played with ranged characters, on demand CC has been the basis of their counterplay or dodge mechanics with enemy skillshot projection built in the game like GW2.

When someone pulls a gun on you in CoE, the only "counter-play" is:

  • Hope their gun is shit and explodes

  • Hope they miss.

  • Pray that your armor might deflect it

There is nothing that you can do with player skill to gain an upper-hand that a player or lesser skill couldn't. I guess if they added skill-shot projection there would be. Compare this to the counterplay we can observe from the LIMITED combat we have been exposed to in coe.

We know that you can:

  • Parry
  • Block
  • Dodge (swords don't move at sonic speeds.)
  • Disarm
  • Grapple
  • Prioritizing Limbs
  • Vital Point Accuracy

Almost all of these mechanics are eliminated in a gun vs sword fight. Unless I'm forgetting some counterplay mechanics for melee on ranged match ups, CoE balancing will most likely not support much gun-play.

I have to heartily disagree. Martial Arts provides many counters to guns, and seeing as any early versions of guns we get will be short range for best accuracy, people will have plenty of opportunity to counter a drawn flintlock (example). There won't be handguns with 20 round clips that fire semi automatically vs a medieval knight.

Most early guns had terrible accuracy. The shot would fly off, missing targets even at short range. That's why people won't be sniping. Even a musket, which were huge, impossible to conceal, took ages to reload, and only fired one, highly inaccurate shot would have counters. Unless using formations like the British Empire (Or a lot of folks in guerrilla fighting like the Colonists), a musket is pretty useless for battle.

Plus, they are liable to explode from a misfire, and don't work well or at all when wet! As well, when guns were first introduced, armor smiths took pride in shooting their work to put a dent in it, which indicated the armor was of high quality, and could withstand shots! So a fully armored person would not fear any guns Elyria would have.

A melee person with significant skill could benefit from the 21 foot rule, and bum rush the gun wielder too. They could toss a throwing knife or dagger, smoke bomb, or dodge roll forward and throw off the gun user's aim. There could even be Elyria's version of Gun-Fu, where people are specifically trained how to counter gun wielding opponents!

Elyria is not likely to have semi or full automatic assault weapons. Countering a gun would be no different (Probably easier) than countering a crossbow! In fact, none of the mechanics you listed would help a melee fighter against a person with a bow even. So, I'm sure SBS will have counters for ranged weapons.


Friend Code: FDB412. Future Mydarri Ship Captain!

8/13/2017 12:58:32 PM #39
+1

I would be okay with these forms of gunpowder.

side question: Will Greek fire be a thing in this game? I would think if we are talking the above early stages of Gunpowder. That Flammable oils would also be in consideration.

Maybe even some siege equipment using these same ideas.


Friend Code: D36064

8/13/2017 5:27:52 PM #40
+0

Posted By CaptainSeli at 08:33 AM - Sun Aug 13 2017

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 6:02 PM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By Desdark at 02:54 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By RedAngel at 03:41 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

I would personally not have guns at all since it would drive off a ton of people but I hope that to some extent you can go and take peoples research back down into the dark ages with enough effort.

A ton? WoW, GW2 and FF XIV = Guns.

I dont think mmorpg gamers avoid guns in fantasy setups...

In those game a gun shot deals as much as a sword swing. They also provided a plethora of CC to "catch" ranged weapon users. Along with the fact that it generally takes over a hundred of those gunshots to actually kill you where as in a game with CoE's design on this simulation it might take 2 or 3. Their is also counterplay partly in that CC I mentioned earlier. Something that won't really be a thing in CoE. In all games I have played with ranged characters, on demand CC has been the basis of their counterplay or dodge mechanics with enemy skillshot projection built in the game like GW2.

When someone pulls a gun on you in CoE, the only "counter-play" is:

  • Hope their gun is shit and explodes

  • Hope they miss.

  • Pray that your armor might deflect it

There is nothing that you can do with player skill to gain an upper-hand that a player or lesser skill couldn't. I guess if they added skill-shot projection there would be. Compare this to the counterplay we can observe from the LIMITED combat we have been exposed to in coe.

We know that you can:

  • Parry
  • Block
  • Dodge (swords don't move at sonic speeds.)
  • Disarm
  • Grapple
  • Prioritizing Limbs
  • Vital Point Accuracy

Almost all of these mechanics are eliminated in a gun vs sword fight. Unless I'm forgetting some counterplay mechanics for melee on ranged match ups, CoE balancing will most likely not support much gun-play.

I have to heartily disagree. Martial Arts provides many counters to guns, and seeing as any early versions of guns we get will be short range for best accuracy, people will have plenty of opportunity to counter a drawn flintlock (example). There won't be handguns with 20 round clips that fire semi automatically vs a medieval knight.

Most early guns had terrible accuracy. The shot would fly off, missing targets even at short range. That's why people won't be sniping. Even a musket, which were huge, impossible to conceal, took ages to reload, and only fired one, highly inaccurate shot would have counters. Unless using formations like the British Empire (Or a lot of folks in guerrilla fighting like the Colonists), a musket is pretty useless for battle.

Plus, they are liable to explode from a misfire, and don't work well or at all when wet! As well, when guns were first introduced, armor smiths took pride in shooting their work to put a dent in it, which indicated the armor was of high quality, and could withstand shots! So a fully armored person would not fear any guns Elyria would have.

A melee person with significant skill could benefit from the 21 foot rule, and bum rush the gun wielder too. They could toss a throwing knife or dagger, smoke bomb, or dodge roll forward and throw off the gun user's aim. There could even be Elyria's version of Gun-Fu, where people are specifically trained how to counter gun wielding opponents!

Elyria is not likely to have semi or full automatic assault weapons. Countering a gun would be no different (Probably easier) than countering a crossbow! In fact, none of the mechanics you listed would help a melee fighter against a person with a bow even. So, I'm sure SBS will have counters for ranged weapons.

Martial arts applies disarming methods in most practices that have been expanded to guns but is not practical in battle. Only applicable in a off-chance 1 on 1 close cornered event that needs several factors to be in check for your disarm to work. If disarming was so simple the development of guns wouldn't have destroyed ancient civilizations in warfare. Your more likely to gain from a suit that has a spinner and blocks the shot if it lands on the right space out of 20. Can it happen? Is it practical enough to justify as reliable counterplay? no.

The rest of your points are like I said, user and weapon errors, not counterplay.


Don't mistake passion and tenacity for toxicity and anger. If I want to hurt you, I will.

8/13/2017 5:30:34 PM #41
-1

Posted By Iota at 01:43 AM - Sun Aug 13 2017

@Takeda_Shinukage

I would assume that having one early is a result of having all the appropriate skills trained for several years of your life.

For a pistol or rifle: a muzzle loaded pistol has one shot, and no rifling, this means it has a very limited effective range and only one shot. The best use you will get in an engagement would be one shot at the effective range and switch to melee, or bayonet.

You should look up "Napoleonic Tactics"

The early gun is best suited for a range-melee hybrid, otherwise what makes it better than a crossbow on horseback?

I think a musket dragoon would be fun, and relatively balanced to an archer on horseback. (how far sound carries being a strategic factor as well in small scale engagement or covert operation)

However a steampunk racer would be epic af... Levers, not enough levers... it has 3 gears, for each set of wheels. forward, neutral, and reverse. There is a brake for the right set and the left set as well.

Like I said, that isn't counter-play, that is weapon flaws. The opponent's skill has no impact on the weapon flaws, to them it's RNG whether it hits you or not which is not counterplay.

Counterplay implies the ability to apply player skill to alter an event in your favor.

An enemy shooting a gun and it exploding due to no action of the player does not cover that definition,


Don't mistake passion and tenacity for toxicity and anger. If I want to hurt you, I will.

8/13/2017 6:10:01 PM #42
+0

I'd think that the quality and durability of the gun, which could be affected by the craftsmanship of the creator, would be factors that a player could alter through repairs and modifications. The actual chance of a gun exploding in the heat of combat, after all quality and modifications are accounted for, probably wouldn't be controllable though.


"Griffith Did Nothing Wrong"

Friend Code: 9AA6A4

8/13/2017 10:04:20 PM #43
+0

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 10:30 AM - Sun Aug 13 2017

Posted By Iota at 01:43 AM - Sun Aug 13 2017

@Takeda_Shinukage

I would assume that having one early is a result of having all the appropriate skills trained for several years of your life.

For a pistol or rifle: a muzzle loaded pistol has one shot, and no rifling, this means it has a very limited effective range and only one shot. The best use you will get in an engagement would be one shot at the effective range and switch to melee, or bayonet.

You should look up "Napoleonic Tactics"

The early gun is best suited for a range-melee hybrid, otherwise what makes it better than a crossbow on horseback?

I think a musket dragoon would be fun, and relatively balanced to an archer on horseback. (how far sound carries being a strategic factor as well in small scale engagement or covert operation)

However a steampunk racer would be epic af... Levers, not enough levers... it has 3 gears, for each set of wheels. forward, neutral, and reverse. There is a brake for the right set and the left set as well.

Like I said, that isn't counter-play, that is weapon flaws. The opponent's skill has no impact on the weapon flaws, to them it's RNG whether it hits you or not which is not counterplay.

Counterplay implies the ability to apply player skill to alter an event in your favor.

An enemy shooting a gun and it exploding due to no action of the player does not cover that definition,

Player skill is applying a measure of form and the resulting acuity relative to the intended result. Uncharted and charted meta within the technology in the game changes the strategic meta.


8/14/2017 12:31:17 AM #44
+0

"Player skill is applying a measure of form"

Point proven, Your not applying anything....Your waiting to see if his gun actually works or not. My skill level has NOTHING to do with the RNG factor in the quality of his gun. Whether I just bought the game, am casual or a veteran will have no outcome on whether that gun explodes in his hand or doesn't.

RNG isn't counter-play.


Don't mistake passion and tenacity for toxicity and anger. If I want to hurt you, I will.

8/14/2017 1:33:10 AM #45
-1

RNG can involve counter-play when the "Random" is measurable hyper-geometric distribution under player control. -Magic the Gathering for example.

The meta for the inventor at the cutting edge, isn't the meta for the soldier with masterwork military ordinance. Masterwork explosives aren't a gimme when inventing explosives.


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