All perfectly reasonable concerns.

Keep safe and hope to see you again if it all works out. ✊️

I totally agree... we know nothing!

And ist ambitous. But I want to trust in SBS and looking Forward to see some Features.

But i recommend to w8 longer and see the final idea then getting first thoughs out of what never will be.

Hopefully they can reach their Goals.

@OP Are you the kind of person who goes to a baker, hears about a great new cake he is making and the moment the baker pulls out flour and rolling pin, ask why isn’t the dough made yet? Why can’t I see it? I’m not sure it’s going to be good. Don’t you have a sample? You said there would be berries in it, and you’d make it with eggs, and water, and.. and... where are all the ingredients man!?!?!

Meanwhile, the baker looks at you stupid and continues to pull the mixer out and go through the fridge.

Pre-Alpha dude.

I keep telling people to temper their expectations, a lot of people are treating CoE like it's going to be a virtual reality where we can do anything and everything.

Sadly one must remember it's a small dev team with very small funding (until we get a (hopefully) large investor) but with a scope similar to Star Citizen.

Caspian's vision for the game is great, and I'm sure it'll be a fun game even if only 20% of what's promised makes it in, but people are letting their imaginations run wild and no game can hope to match a human imagination.

It's the same reason most fans of books are quite often disappointed by their movie versions - the imagination is just so powerful.

The devs are doing little to temper people's expectations which is good right now as it builds hype and gets backers, but if it can't deliver on the hype then god damn...

Just remember, we may be risking tens, hundreds, thousands of dollars depending on our pledges, but CoE failing would be a big black mark on all the devs work histories, not to mention Caspian gave up his dream home to help fund the game. More is at risk for them than us, so I'm sure they're doing everything they can to make it work.

I'll only start panicking if devs start dropping off so their name isn't tied to the project, or if the devs start lying to us. So far, we're kushty. :)

You have some valid points and in my opinion some that aren’t. But opinions are usually unique to the person holding them so more power to you.

That said a few things to keep in mind. There is footage of movement and some that is still behind the nda (I believe) but you are correct I haven’t seen anything regarding mechanics beyond the base combat, crafting and climbing animations. Caspian and others like Snipehunter have made comments on what works and what they are still working on and finalizing mechanics isn’t the step they are on currently.

OPCs is the answer to one of the oldest mmo cheese moves that of killing someone or stealing something then logging off to avoid repercussions. They won’t add much cpu processing because of the tech Spatial OS and google cloud hosting they are using. Now in my opinion people should be skeptical of such claims but given the people involved in making those claims it’s highly probable it will work as advertised. If so only those in your immediate area will affect your personal computer and the server tech should handle the rest.

In your case or those who have yet to pledge there really isn’t much reason for folks to worry. If you choose to be skeptical so be it. Wait till launch. The only reason one should pledge now is if they believe in SBS and want to help shape the world prior to launch. Otherwise just hang back and wait. You can always buy a copy post launch and through blood and sweat shape the world then.

It is ambitious. It does promise things that haven't been done before. It does seem unrealistic for a team like this to deliver what they describe let alone what we project from that in our imaginations.

We can just wait and see. This isn't a marriage, it's a game. It might be bad, it might be amazing. It won't be the ultimate game to end all games.

We don't have to say I'm calling it off, cancel the wedding, game over. Just wait till it comes out and see if it's good. If it's not, do something else.

I know they're making a thing of the "dance of dynasties" but let's be honest, the one thing that would guarantee the game failing hard if if you had to be a forum warrior two years before release in order to get anywhere. The vast majority of players will pick it up close to or after release and do just fine (or the game will fail). So if you're not feeling positive about it just now, check back nearer launch and see how it worked out. Checking a cake too often doesn't make a better cake.

If you choose to obsess over a game and spend every waking minute pouring over videos and articles, make sure it's because you enjoy doing that. You're not going to uncover some secret nugget of information that proves the game will be amazing. Companies don't hide that sort of thing away. You won't make the game more fun either - generally if anything you'll make it a bit less fun, because you reduce the suspension of disbelief when you know so many details, and you're far more likely to be disappointed when you know every last possible feature that was ever discussed.

If you blew your student loan on a Kingdom I don't know what to tell you but if you didn't spend any money yet, or like me you spent a small amount that you're happy to risk on potential, there's no point stressing about how it looks way before release. We can just see how it looks at release and enjoy it for what it is.

It's fine to be unsure of any game. More so ones that are in pre-alpha. I would just step back and wait for a later point in time to see if you like it or not.

Most of your concerns come down to you have not seen it yet, which is again fine. I backed as high as I did cause I want to see everything they said happen. Sick of the normal themepark MMOs that really are all basically the same. So I took a shot here, which at least aims to be different. If it will all go to plan is something else.

If you don't have the faith/confidence they can pull it off, cool. You can always check it out when the game launches.

I'm hoping for the best while expecting the worse can happen. Where you seem to be thinking it's doomed and it's not even out of pre-alpha.

Viktoriusiii your list has many valid points and I do understand they way you feel. Information is slow to come out, very little is known about the actual mechanics of the game, and we have the old, tired videos to watch over and over.

However personally I am looking at the big picture and past the actual game. There are many genres of games out there and by far my favorite is the MMO. I love it for its interpersonal interactions, exploration, and the ability to do almost anything you want at any given time. Then I look at the market and get really depressed. I don't see anything on the horizon that even peeks my interest except for the up and coming Ashes of Creation which is from the same cookie cutter game style with the exception of the node systems. So I am looking for something long term to play and there is absolutely nothing out there. So do I think CoE will pull off everything they have advertised the way it is described, No. Will it be the perfect be all MMO, I doubt it. But the main reason I have backed it is for a couple of reasons. One is the bold, ambitious attempt at putting together a game that many of us have wanted for years. Another is listening to the passion of the Developers as the talk about the game. A third point is Caspian has put is own money into the game and it not trying to make a killing on the back end like so many other games do, he is just trying to fulfill a long time dream of his. And finally I don't see anything even close to the design or apeal this game has for me. So I a holding on to the hope that it is realized and others give it a chance, even though they are a small indie company with high ambitions.

Posted By Viktoriusiii at 09:16 AM - Fri Dec 15 2017

Small thought on the side: Alpha is for adding features Beta is for testing and balancing Alpha 1 is starting in ~3 months and not one core features has been shown. B1 is starting in ~1 year and the game is "sceduled to release" in 2 years. The game is in development for 2 years and none of the features are in any way presentable, when in a few months the alpha starts.

Did i get something wrong? I mean... I dont mind if they take a few more years in development... but I dont feel they are very open about their progress... OR as ive said there is a reason why finishing it doesnt take as much time.

edit and yes i know about spacialOS. But does ANYBODY know how it works? No? NEither do i... and I've tried to do my research on it... If you want to know what the unreal engine is capable of, you can look it up. But spacialOS? Its a cloud of mist that is somehow going to fix all the massive issues of OPCs :D this is so irritating to me. And when I mean "there is no info on it" I mean nothing but the buzzwords on their website. :D

You like to talk a lot but you don’t like to listen , or do your research on how MMOs and their servers are handled . Your client doesn’t need to be computing these “90,000” npcs + animals at all times , nor does the entire map connect in a way that would lag itself down - any mmo of large size is broken into “nodes” or “tiles” and therefore server/client loads are separate per node .

Secondly , we’re going to be seeing some of these “buzzwords” as you call them , make a huge difference if they work properly (and like malais said if you would take the time to actually read the rebuttles coming your way you would know are being worked on by some big names , google etc) : spatial os , which is not hard to research btw dude (https://improbable.io/games) is new so of course we will see hiccups when we can finally play coe and see how the entire NPC/ server load thing plays out (not to mention alpha MMOs are always unstable at first) but that doesn’t mean you can blow off all of the years of work that helped put this technology in place for great games like coe.

It’s funny though , naysayers like you are always the strongest inspirations for these systems like spatialOS to be created , the developers always love to prove people like you wrong ! Stay tuned boy-o we should see alpha 1 this 2018 year . Oh and btw you said it yourself : alpha is for putting In new features so STOP ASKING FOR NEW FEATURES TO BE DISCUSSED WHILE WE ARE IN PREALPHA !!!!

Posted By Sullen at 09:04 AM - Fri Dec 15 2017

So I am looking for something long term to play and there is absolutely nothing out there.

That's basically the reason I decided to support this project too.

So I a holding on to the hope that it is realized and others give it a chance, even though they are a small indie company with high ambitions.

Ditto. And I'll also add that I hope they don't ultimately deviate too significantly from what they originally promoted. Tribes and a "mid fantasy" setting are steps in that direction for me.

While I feel like everyone is entitled to their concerns, but I want to clear a few points that you made.

There is no footage. >

I would argue that yes there is footage, just not a lot of what you are either looking for or of what other games have, as far as polished gameplay. There are NO playable demos, the game is in pre-alpha with about a year into full-on development – there’s not going to be polished footage of the game, and certainly not of fine-tuned mechanics. Building a game is like building a house, you need to build the foundation, then the “bones” of the home (framing), then the insulation, electrical, plumbing…everything that MAKES the home “run”. If you take a picture of a house being built, it’s not really exciting. What people want to see are the bells and whistles like the color of the siding or the layout of the kitchen appliances but in terms of CoE, that’s really far away when SbS is really just framing in the game and laying out plans/foundations for its mechanics and systems.

OPC scripts: >

While the foundation is going to be provided by SbS, the complication of scripts is really up to the players to unravel. SbS wants scripts to be a commodity, much like architectural blueprints in COE, they want people who are good at writing that sort of code/language to benefit in game. So while I think your concerns are valid, you should be concerned more about the skill of the community and not so much on how do-able it is. I also think you are overcomplicating scripts, keep in mind that SbS wants OPCs to benefit the player but only to the extent that it doesn’t interfere with systems that require player skill (ie. Complex crafting, combat, wilderness survival, etc). As far as the actual action of scripting, I recommend checking out “Screeps” – the player scripts it’s tiny pixel minions to do their bidding while they’re away, it might give you an idea of what COE scripts would be like.

Inventory limited to real-life: >

Other games have done this and it really adds a fun dynamic to them. The game that comes to mind is Life is Feudal. While I think their inventory system is a bit generous at times, it’s still realistic in that your character can only carry so much weight on them, items all have weight values assigned to them which is tied in to how many of that item a character can carry. They also have a system where even bigger items like tree logs, beds, chairs, etc are literally carried on the back of the player and they walk super slow. There are also carts to aid in carrying large amounts of food/ore/etc for trade and what not. So this system is completely do-able. As far as storage for poor players. We know that there will be rent for those who can’t afford a house or to build a house, done through the player contract system and I’m sure there are players out there who really want to be slumlords haha. I also imagine that owning a bank is possible as well, for more valuable possessions, which is also something that might be do-able through contracts (for example, “I, Hellmoon, contract Sir Moneybags to hold onto [items list], for [set period of time]. This item is insured and valued at [$$] in the event of the items being lost Hellmoon is entitled to equal value compensation if [item(s)] are lost.”)

Technology >

Technology is one of those things that really interest me, from what I remember and what I imagine from that information is that when a player chooses to research something when crafting an item, it goes into a database for SbS to look at – sort of like polling data. Once they have enough information and a clear direction, SbS knows what to “patch” into the game so to speak. Research is one of those things, just like voting, that makes sense for a large amount of people to work together with. So schools, governments, or craftsman guilds will most likely tell their people, “Hey guys, to better our school/kingdom/etc, please research sails when making boats” or “We need to have more advanced weapons so research items to make a composite bow when crafting bows.”. So honestly, I see tech research more of an internal tool for SbS to help develop each server in the way that the majority of the players (per server) vote for.

all the other little systems: >

While I don’t think SbS has enough to explain or showcase in order to satisfy your concern, a few of these issues are done in other games already:

breeding/domestication: Life is Feudal has a system, albeit not the best system but I believe there’s a special type of building that you put your animals into. You have to make sure you have the right animals but they will breed and produce offspring. So I don’t think this mechanic in particular is out of the realm of impossibility.
How forests regrow: In 7 Days to Die & Life is Feudal, one item you get from trees are sprouts either when harvesting on the tree or when you chop it down. Again, it’s something that isn’t unheard of so I don’t think it’s worth worrying about.

Subpoint & traders

I’m not really sure what the concern is with traders. Keep in mind that the game world is going to be massive, there’s going to be roughly 20 different biomes (assumedly with unique resources). For instance, taking gems from the Mountain Steppe to a city in the swamp or wetland 6 IRL hours away – they’re [hopefully] going to be very valuable for the trader’s sake, and if they aren’t…well then that player is bad at being a trader. Even if there is a different currency in the Wetland Biome, I’m sure there’s valuable resources in that biome that can be traded for the desired objects. Traders aren’t irrelevant because of their goods, traders usually have higher prices because they are essentially shipping in commodities or rare goods that the local populace doesn’t ever get to buy on any sort of regular basis. Kind of like how in the Northeast USA (in like…the 60’s?), it was a popular to get your kids oranges for Christmas because they were a commodity, very expensive and rare to see that far up north.

I hope my responses help and I would hate to see you leave the community. My suggestion would be to hang out, keep up with the news, maybe make some friends in the community and play games in the meantime. I don’t think it’s worth completely abandoning an in development game, especially if the concepts it presents are exciting or intriguing to you. As with everything, it’s always good to have a healthy amount of skepticism and I had a lot of fun thinking about how to respond to some of these points!