Ending a Family Line

I have look over the forums for key words regarding this topic and haven't been able to find anything exactly like my concern, but forgive me if I am bringing up an old topic.

Currently children are immortal/ not in the game/ basically unable to be "removed" until they are no longer children, whatever age that maybe. My concern is how a family line could be ended to remove a king/duke/count from the position, if you can't remove their children from the equation. It doesn't have to be a member of the nobility for this to matter as well. If someone wanted to remove any family line, say a prominent merchant family, from the game this will apply.

  1. If the child isn't of age to be sparked into and the parent has been killed, do they age up to allow for that line to continue, thus making them an adult and able to be killed?

  2. What if both parents/guardians have been removed from play does the child now own the house/business if they were proclaimed the heir, even though they aren't of age to be "removed"?

  3. If the child doesn't age up to allow for sparking, but there is no "adult" to manage the child does it become a Ward of the State, effectively removing them from the game?

Number 3 is how I image the ability to remove a family line to work. If there are no living "adults" in the family that line has effectively ended even if there are 1, 5, 10, 30 children. This method will making holding onto a viable heir important. This also would get around the unable to "remove" children in a nice way.

Again I apologize if this topic has been brought up before in a different thread. This is an important aspect of CoE and if not done correctly could cause those in power, and all prominent families to have no real worry about not being able to continue their family line since children can't be "removed".

10/10/2018 1:15:02 PM #1

Killing off the family line is no longer required to remove a noble from power. All that is needed is to kill the heirs rapidly enough that the player behind them cannot gain the story points needed to pass the title on to their heir.

The title could be removed from the family line if the heir isn’t considered strong enough to hold on to it triggering the tribes “contested” inheritance mechanics. In essence each tribe has specific mechanics to determine a title holder based on their customs if certain conditions are met.

Removing the family line will be difficult as it should be, removing the title from the player’s hand is actually relitivey easy.

10/11/2018 12:07:20 AM #2

I think what Kura is trying to say is that if you want to prevent a family that was previously in power from having a claim in the future you would need to kill the children, so that someone cannot jump into that child and use it as a basis to reclaim the lost title.

10/11/2018 2:16:02 AM #3

Yes, Malais there are easier ways to remove someone from power, but to completely remove their existing family line you would need to be able kill all existing heirs to that family. Currently with existing knowledge from the devs and for good reason you can't kill children. My concern is that without some way to nicely remove children from the game after all the adults of a family line are killed, there is a crucial piece of the world missing along with the play style that goes along with it.

10/11/2018 12:11:27 PM #4

It doesn’t work that way.

To claim a Noble Title, you have to have a casus belli (or CB) and perform a Coup. There are three ways you can go about getting a CB: Favor, Fame, and Wealth. Note: the last two only apply to non-Nobles. Once you become a noble, only favor can be used.

Favor: Let's say I'm a Mayor of a city in some county. If I can gain enough “favor”, I can either take over as Count of the county, or if I have enough land can claim independence and create my own county. What does “favor” mean? Favor is a willingness by your peers, your noble's peers, or your noble's liege lord to support you. This is actually a written contract that they sign that assures you their support. So if you're a mayor, and you can rally enough other mayors (currently 2/3), you can claim CB and attempt to overthrow your count. As previously stated, instead of getting the favor from the other mayors, you can alternatively curry favor with the other counts in your duchy - your count's peers. If you can get 51% of your count's peers to agree, then you have achieved CB. As with before, that gives you the opportunity to perform a coup. Finally, if you can get 25% of your count's peers and their duke you’ve established a cause for war. For King, there are no nobles above them. So you either need the dukes to rally against the king, or you need to gain favor with the other Kings.

Fame: Each noble title has its own fame. Legendary for Kings, Exalted for Dukes, and Renowned for Counts. If you can reach the level of fame just below a noble title: Famous for Counts, Renowned for Dukes, and Exalted for Kings, you can automatically claim CB on the basis of being famous. Then, the same process repeats as before. Of course, being an Exalted character might give you CB to claim the title of King, but you still need an army to defend your new capital. That's where more politics are involved. And as an Exalted character if you die while challenging the King, you suffer the spirit loss of being a now, Legendary character.

Wealth: If you're able to accumulate some, yet to be defined amount of wealth based on play-testing, you can buy a CB. Of course, you still need the land to claim as your own, and you still need to pay mercenaries in order to invade/defend your new title, but it’s at least possible to get the CB.

Just because my pappy was a king doesn’t mean I have a claim. I may have more wealth and fame to start with but I don’t have an automatic CB nor does the rest of my family. Only the previous holder would have a chance to retake the title.

10/11/2018 1:26:15 PM #5

I'm not concerned with becoming the king or becoming a noble my only concern is with the ending a family line. I understand what a CB is. My issue is with lines of succession.

As I currently understand things, when the king dies of old age and has an heir set up that heir becomes the new king and the player can choose to spark into his heir. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Now if you wanted to prevent that family line from continuing, create a power vacuum, remove that player from the position outside of a CB, so we are talking assassination at this point, which is what I was alluding to in my OP. What is going to be done with the children that you cannot kill, but are the offspring of the king.

I can set up a hypothetical if I need to, but I think your only looking at the question from a "doing it the legal way" which doesn't answer my questions for things that don't require a CB and even a CB doesn't really answer my original questions.

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