COMMUNITY - FORUMS - SOULBORN ENGINE
Oasis and its story implications
+1

Short and sweet...

The most interesting implication behind this store item has been that its a location that for engaging with the story mechanics. Naturally, I wonder if the Hrothic Great Libraries and the Kypiq Giant Mushroom Forests will be legendaries and locations for story triggers.

What else do you think would be a legendary point of interest? If you were handling the structures that grant story which themes/styles would you like the most?


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12/4/2018 2:06:27 AM #16
+5

Some folks just love a good dive bar. "Where everybody knows your name..."


12/4/2018 2:13:57 AM #17
+4

I still don't understand why you feel that the fame of your establishment can't be earned in-game? Is it not the same as the fame and reputation of your character, and something that can be built with ambition?

Or who knows it might even be acquired totally by chance with a plotline from the story engine happening in an establishment. Would you consider that to be unfair?

Or, like a Kingdom, you can plot and strategize to take it away from the current owner which makes it obtainable in-game.

I am not trying to argue with you Deftly, I am just offering another perspective.


12/4/2018 3:08:57 AM #18
+7

Posted By Deftly at 6:25 PM - Mon Dec 03 2018

Posted By Dariusacmar at 6:43 PM - Mon Dec 03 2018

Posted By Deftly at 4:33 PM - Mon Dec 03 2018

I understand they need to the funding but I'm also willing to fund because I felt like CoE is a game where you earn things. The person that got the free kingdom could fail in a week, giving away a free kingdom, isn't really a prize, it's going to take tons of management, stress, and actual work. That's why I think a lot of people are fine with it. But buying fame and lore seems like a slap in the face to people that want to be tavern owners. Gaining fame is something a tavern earns through being different and having a personality. Someone could still have a better tavern than a legendary one but the legendary ones will always be at the back of everyone head.

And yet King has fame he bought, SBS even saying it's at legendary level and the accompanying rewards/risk.

And like the 5% or less of us (compared to the total world amount after launch) players buying packages and the incredibly small amount of that being Kings and Dukes, there are/will be a small amount of Legendary buildings/items and their accompanying rewards and risks compared to all of those types of buildings/items at launch/shortly after launch. All of which can be lost.

You can't lose property though. For the first, three three is no pvp and on top of that you need to develop siege weapons there is more than enough time to use that fame you brought to push your business ahead of others. The Tavern being connected to lore and us knowing that story events will happen there helps everyone. There would be little reason to want to wreck it. Plus, it's written in the lore so the npcs will know of it. I'm assuming that's going to be a pretty big deal to them and that's business. I just feel like an important building sells more than just a starting point.

Two people that brought king packages are equal. The legendary tavern being limited automatically puts one tavern owner above another because the other owner can't buy a legendary tavern. Now put the owners at the same skill level the legendary tavern should beat out the non-legendary tavern every time.

You shot your own argument in the foot twice there. You can lose property or effectively lose it if not by completely legal means. Blockaded out. You personally killed over and over again (and your heirs killed so those you tried to will it to no longer exist) and now you have no legal standing in game. Your property burned/salted and any structures burned to the ground.

There are only 6 Kings total on a server at the start, while they've said there are going to be 13 legendary taverns...so by your own reasoning, the Kings are actually the more rare commodity as there are less than half of them then the Legendary Taverns.

And on your other point, you most certainly can build up to having a Legendary Tavern. Sure, the Tavern starts with being written into the storyline, however SBS has specifically said that as we progress we will be writing the servers story as we go, it's very history and the dynamic story engine will be shaping the world around that history. So over the almost 600 Elyrian years that the world server will be running, we will be writing almost more history than we have from the beginning of the fourth age itself...so you most certainly can create a legendary tavern...and I'm betting in less than half that time.



-The largest cause of war is selfishness. The hardest thing to achieve in life is mutual selflessness.

Friend Code CD4DE7

12/4/2018 5:37:44 AM #19
+18

Without interfering with the conversation too much here, let me throw some facts out for you that will help with your speculation a bit:

Once the game launches, and the taverns have been claimed or not, ownership of these taverns will follow the same rules as any other structure and parcels of land it may stand on. There's nothing to stop Pteroguin, for example, from selling the tavern, losing it in a card game, etc. etc.

There's also nothing to stop you from creating a tavern that rivals any of the Thirteen. And, as was already speculated, there's nothing to stop one of the Thirteen from falling on hard times, losing relevance as the dance spirals on, or befalling some other terrible fate that effectively strips it of its status.

When the game launches, each of the Thirteen will exist, whether they are player-owned or not. There really isn't much difference, mechanically, between their owners being players or NPCs, except that it might change the nature of the challenge of acquiring one of the Thirteen for yourself.

Hope that helps! :)


  • Snipehunter
12/4/2018 7:20:28 AM #20
-1

Posted By Dariusacmar at 10:08 PM - Mon Dec 03 2018

Posted By Deftly at 6:25 PM - Mon Dec 03 2018

Posted By Dariusacmar at 6:43 PM - Mon Dec 03 2018

Posted By Deftly at 4:33 PM - Mon Dec 03 2018

I understand they need to the funding but I'm also willing to fund because I felt like CoE is a game where you earn things. The person that got the free kingdom could fail in a week, giving away a free kingdom, isn't really a prize, it's going to take tons of management, stress, and actual work. That's why I think a lot of people are fine with it. But buying fame and lore seems like a slap in the face to people that want to be tavern owners. Gaining fame is something a tavern earns through being different and having a personality. Someone could still have a better tavern than a legendary one but the legendary ones will always be at the back of everyone head.

And yet King has fame he bought, SBS even saying it's at legendary level and the accompanying rewards/risk.

And like the 5% or less of us (compared to the total world amount after launch) players buying packages and the incredibly small amount of that being Kings and Dukes, there are/will be a small amount of Legendary buildings/items and their accompanying rewards and risks compared to all of those types of buildings/items at launch/shortly after launch. All of which can be lost.

You can't lose property though. For the first, three three is no pvp and on top of that you need to develop siege weapons there is more than enough time to use that fame you brought to push your business ahead of others. The Tavern being connected to lore and us knowing that story events will happen there helps everyone. There would be little reason to want to wreck it. Plus, it's written in the lore so the npcs will know of it. I'm assuming that's going to be a pretty big deal to them and that's business. I just feel like an important building sells more than just a starting point.

Two people that brought king packages are equal. The legendary tavern being limited automatically puts one tavern owner above another because the other owner can't buy a legendary tavern. Now put the owners at the same skill level the legendary tavern should beat out the non-legendary tavern every time.

You shot your own argument in the foot twice there. You can lose property or effectively lose it if not by completely legal means. Blockaded out. You personally killed over and over again (and your heirs killed so those you tried to will it to no longer exist) and now you have no legal standing in game. Your property burned/salted and any structures burned to the ground.

There are only 6 Kings total on a server at the start, while they've said there are going to be 13 legendary taverns...so by your own reasoning, the Kings are actually the more rare commodity as there are less than half of them then the Legendary Taverns.

And on your other point, you most certainly can build up to having a Legendary Tavern. Sure, the Tavern starts with being written into the storyline, however SBS has specifically said that as we progress we will be writing the servers story as we go, it's very history and the dynamic story engine will be shaping the world around that history. So over the almost 600 Elyrian years that the world server will be running, we will be writing almost more history than we have from the beginning of the fourth age itself...so you most certainly can create a legendary tavern...and I'm betting in less than half that time.

You guys are missing the impact that this will have at the start of the game. This is why I keep saying at the start. Anything can happen in the future, but it gives such a strong head start I see this as an advantage. These taverns aren't being brought by people that are going to play this game lightly. Pteroguin is a Rank 12, he isn't going to be just a person that plays for time to time that always wanted to have a tavern in a game. People spent $1250 and will spend more and has EP on top of it. The chance of their tavern not beating out someone else tavern is slim to none and then is boosted by this. That start of an mmo matters, being able to buy fame and having it be protected for 3 months matters especially to the little people that wanted to have a nearby tavern.

This is what I'm thinking. You buy this tavern. People are interested because it's tie to the story and want to know more about it. We don't know when something will happen by people want to be around for it because story = talent chance. The person that brought the tavern wants it to be a part of his/her main city. To run a tavern you need food, water, maintenance, etc. Merchants seeing people interested make them want to trade with this tavern and seeing that it's backed by a higher backer they have more faith that he or she will be a safe person to trade with. These traders start a business relationship with the owner. What's the chance that these traders are going to want to trade with other owners when they know someone else is a safe bet. With the tavern doing good they can get more people working there and they can improve it. Then let's say the tavern burns down, the damage is already done the relationships have been made, the trust has been earned, and now they can just build a new tavern.

I don't know know. I just see it as a huge head start on people who didn't have the money for it.

@mystichaze - I understand and I don't take anything anyone says here personally. I'm just giving my train of thought. It's possible that I'm missing something here that others think it's fine.

I know fame can be earned ingame what I'm saying is the legendary tavern gives them fame they didn't earn. For example, we get a lore piece on the tavern. We learn about it and it is something that people are interested in. Say, 2 players are walking through a county and they want to stop to get food. they pull up the map and see 3 taverns, two are taverns that they don't know anything about and the third is the legendary tavern. What's the chances of them wanting to see the legendary tavern after learning it lore vs other two no named taverns? I think it's pretty high imo. If the two players make the choice to go to that tavern over the others, that was because of money. Nothing else. Someone gave them a chance because they paid for it. At the start of the game when you are a no named tavern, when you aren't someone that is a higher level backer, etc that hurts you.

If someone were to get it by chance in a plotline, I would be fine with that. That's how the game is meant to be played. Chance, luck, skill, war, but I can't agree with RL money and barred chances.

12/4/2018 7:59:13 AM #21
+4

Posted By Deftly at 08:20 AM - Tue Dec 04 2018

I don't know know. I just see it as a huge head start on people who didn't have the money for it.

A head start. You mention this more than once. Imho, this is not a racing game where you need to be first somewhere. There's no win conditions, except what players set for themselves.

CoE will be all about how much enjoyment you have while playing the game. Some will enjoy farming, some will enjoy leading armies ... some will enjoy running a tavern. For the people that ends up in the latter category, having a legendary tavern is a great advantage but it'll not make them more likely to "win" the game.


Imgur

12/4/2018 7:59:51 AM #22
+4

I guess in the end, your version of what is good doesn't match mine. I don't think there will be a chance of a tavern near the legendary ones being able to beat out the legendary one right away, or even in the first couple years...but I'm okay with that. I'm okay with a player having spent more money than I have or would to be a king and possibly being a fantastic king and staying a king for years of gameplay...just like I'm okay with a player buying a legendary tavern and doing a fantastic job running it. But frankly, there is no way to say either will happen. And to me that's the point. It's an investment on the part of many players to build a world and get something in return, knowing they could lose it all if they don't work their ass off to protect it...and even then some of those will. In the end, I want it in the hands of someone that worked day in and day out to earn thousands of dollars in their own life so that they could put it towards a king package, or a duke package, or a legendary tavern. Because in the end, almost always those people perform better than your average joe putting in a hundred dollars for tokens and winning it in a raffle...and that matters...it really really matters when we are at this crucial stage of setting up the world...setting the stage for hundreds of thousands of other players that expect to be able to play in an amazing and fully fleshed out world. We are the world builders. So let those that can contribute the most money to help this world get built without compromising the over all dream and game play do so. It won't be equally fair...but it will be balanced out across the world.



-The largest cause of war is selfishness. The hardest thing to achieve in life is mutual selflessness.

Friend Code CD4DE7

12/4/2018 8:42:04 AM #23
+0

Posted By mystichaze at 09:43 AM - Tue Dec 04 2018

However, with that being said SBS is also relying on Crowdfunding to gain enough resources to complete CoE, thus they need to sell things that are attractive to future supporters.

Logically, like any lottery in RL. They make more money than they give away. It's the whole point around them "Buy into winning something awesome, for something so cheap."

I have little doubt if they did lottery on one of these legendary taverns. Say 20-30 bucks a ticket, with a max of 5 tickets per person. They would have made a killing off it.

When it all came down to, it was whoever was the fastest. The point NA/EU sold in under 5 minutes proved that. Not saying them selling them straight out is bad. But saying a lottery wouldn't have net them just as much money, not really true either. Maybe then someone from OCE would have been able to buy it, unless it did sell in the end.

Hell just look at the FK event. While sure counts went cheaper. The point the winner won by people giving him 14k worth of tokens. With the dukes themselves way over what their titles were worth, just shows how much a lottery type event would have made them.


12/4/2018 8:44:48 AM #24
+6

@Deftly

Hmm, there are a few things that confuse me about your post.

Firstly, what lead you to believe that owning a Historic Tavern would lead the player into a better chance at a talent? I don't think these two things are connected at all, but Snipe can correct me if I am wrong.

Secondly, wouldn't it be bad business practice for any Trader to only deal with one consumer?

Thirdly, your points on Exposition (The world building phase) could stand true for anything that has been purchased from the Store and the EP Store. There are no two players that are going to start exposition on equal footing. It will all be dependent on how much real money they have spent to establish their business /domains.

As an example, one farmer might have purchased more and better livestock than his neighbor. Or the King that purchased two Kingdoms instead of one will have more resources and so on.

This imbalance due to purchases is going to create a ton of conflict, envy, and competition throughout the entire game, not just for the legendary Taverns, but everything. Which, in turn, is going to create some very interesting stories.

It will be those factors that are going to create jealousy and the unpredictable actions of other player's. As a result, over time the inequality will definitely impact and change the status of those that entered Exposition.

The more you have, the more someone out there is going to want to take it from you. It is the nature of Mann.. :)

I guess what I am trying to say is I don't see any difference with the tavern purchase in comparison to any other purchases made in CoE.


12/4/2018 11:45:44 AM #25
+5

Legendary locations are going to be magnets for all kinds of people, including griefers both in and out of character. There will be RP deviants who will want the reputation of bustin' up the place as often as they can manage. There will also be the killjoy griefers who will want to cause as much disturbance as possible to the players who may want to frequent the establishment, for very similar reasons. Managing a legendary establishment is likely to be far more trouble than managing an equivalent non-legendary establishment. It isn't likely to be the same as managing an ordinary tavern in an ordinary village or town.

Also, there will in a sense be far more glory in starting one's own tavern from scratch and making it successful and famous than in taking over ownership of an ancient establishment and merely maintaining its reputation.

It depends on exactly what one means by winning. If it means to be in a particular state, then concerns that this is P2W is justified. On the other hand, if winning means accomplishing something in the game, then this is not P2W.


12/4/2018 12:27:04 PM #26
+2

Posted By Hugh Bris at 5:05 PM - Mon Dec 03 2018

They've raised quite a bit of money already, over 5 million, and while I'm sure most of that money has been raised by people not losing sleep at dropping 5k at a time the majority of the players will have spent significantly less.

It would be nice if the rank and file were given more chances to have something cool.

I know there was at least one Kingdom giveaway but I'm not sure if that was a specific indecent on a specific server or if it happened on all servers. Still, something like an Inn or a Tavern as a lottery would bring a lot of people back that have wandered off because of lack of content and bring in new folk as well.

Winning the Tavern and keeping it, like anything in CoE, are two very different things.

Nothing is set in stone. U can still kill or overthrow the innkeeper an steal or buy it from someone else


12/4/2018 4:57:57 PM #27
-1

Posted By Lofi at 02:59 AM - Tue Dec 04 2018

Posted By Deftly at 08:20 AM - Tue Dec 04 2018

I don't know know. I just see it as a huge head start on people who didn't have the money for it.

A head start. You mention this more than once. Imho, this is not a racing game where you need to be first somewhere. There's no win conditions, except what players set for themselves.

CoE will be all about how much enjoyment you have while playing the game. Some will enjoy farming, some will enjoy leading armies ... some will enjoy running a tavern. For the people that ends up in the latter category, having a legendary tavern is a great advantage but it'll not make them more likely to "win" the game.

I agree and disagree, if you want to have a tavern and just enjoy being an owner with upgrade whenever you want. Sure, that's not a race.

If you want to be the top end taverns this game is 100% a race. Learning new stuff, finding the next big things, adding new features when SBS comes out with content,etc. Getting the best start can be important to someone's enjoyment. Being the best of the best can be as enjoyable just logging in and being social. This is just a preference.

@mystichaze

  1. The tavern provides something else that no other tavern can with lore attached to it. It will have story events. Story being a major draw in CoE gives people more reason to go to that tavern vs others ones. Lore and story progression is something that people want.

  2. Not bad for business if you are getting paid. If you can raise 10 chickens and this tavern is willing to buy your 10 chickens at a higher price due to their success, then no. My point was more that traders will look to trade with them. not deny other taverns. If you know you can only raise a certain amount of chickens and you want to make a contract with someone, choosing a place that has a lot of attention usually profitable.

  3. I agree with that statement, now give the farmer that already spent more money an unique item that says" Hey look at me, I have story and lore." And people are like " I like story and lore, let's check it out." That's pretty big in my opinion. Attracting customers should be a part of the tavern gameplay, not something you can buy.

12/4/2018 5:01:27 PM #28
+0

Posted By Poldano at 06:45 AM - Tue Dec 04 2018

Legendary locations are going to be magnets for all kinds of people, including griefers both in and out of character. There will be RP deviants who will want the reputation of bustin' up the place as often as they can manage. There will also be the killjoy griefers who will want to cause as much disturbance as possible to the players who may want to frequent the establishment, for very similar reasons. Managing a legendary establishment is likely to be far more trouble than managing an equivalent non-legendary establishment. It isn't likely to be the same as managing an ordinary tavern in an ordinary village or town.

Also, there will in a sense be far more glory in starting one's own tavern from scratch and making it successful and famous than in taking over ownership of an ancient establishment and merely maintaining its reputation.

It depends on exactly what one means by winning. If it means to be in a particular state, then concerns that this is P2W is justified. On the other hand, if winning means accomplishing something in the game, then this is not P2W.

It being a magnet is good for everyone though. That's what we are playing this game for. We want the drama, the events, people want to be a part of that. Instead of letting the players make that spot, it's for sell. That is going to let that tavern stand apart from the others. Griefers imo, won't last long, but there will be drama and for most of people, that's entertainment and a reason to go to that tavern

12/4/2018 5:18:31 PM #29
+1

Also, thank you for the replies snipe. I was too busy replying to say thank you.

12/4/2018 5:45:40 PM #30
+4

In development

Need money to make game

Cant afford it? Tough luck, thats life bro.

The day an amazing game is made without money is the day World Peace will happen. lol

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