Thank you for the shoutout for our Sun Temple PixiePunchPie!

Not sure who is going to win ultimately, but I hope it gets used in a creative way to draw in new people, and not just given away or stashed in a vault somewhere.

Certainly the Hrothi would benefit year round from the Sunstone too. I know they have lowlight vision, but I'm not sure they prefer low light or not.

I kinda disagree, Hrothi don't really need the sun stone to thrive. First of all they got darkvision, so they should be able to work underground just fine with regular light sources.

I think the sun stone is far more suited for Waerd underground areas that should have soil along the underground rivers that provide ideal locations for growing crops in supposedly greenhouse like conditions if not for the lack of light. In comparison Hrothi underground areas is likely to be more stony and less ideal for underground crops, aside from hardier variations that thrive in the dark to begin with and don't need deep soil, such as mushrooms.

Of course, these are mostly based on assumptions though, but it's assumptions rooted in real life: it makes sense dug out caverns inside mountains and hills don't have much soil, compared to natural sandstone caverns carved out by a river. Naturally, the soil situation can probably be fixed with some work, but the bonus of an underground river will be harder to come by.

This is why Bombastus on Luna, and Pteroguin on Angelica, have a better case for the sun stones in my opinion.

ShadowTani:

That's a really good point. I was more focused on them needing the additional light because they're so far north and will probably be growing crops outside to feed their mines, like in the hillier areas. Northern areas have less light IRL and having an alternate light source could be amazing for them. Though, to be fair, I know very little about what it takes to grow things irl. Will the northern mountain area have hill places that can be cultivated for large fields? Isn't that typical of mountains?

Plus I don't see very much of what the Waerd can provide for the server aside from maybe Clay, but we can get that from any desert or swamp/bog area right? 3-4 desert/boggy areas vs 1 Hrothi mountainous region (I honestly don't even remember which map we voted LOL! fail on my part). The only unique thing I can see them providing is glass but that will be in much lower demand than the stone, ore, and metals from the mines. Right?

You make a very good point about the Wared though. But without being able to terraform, won't it be more difficult for them to build an underground greenhouse type thing from a located river or aquifer? Or are those typically large enough to support an entire farm?

I'm honestly just throwing out ideas and trying to brainstorm what will be best for the server as a whole so Thank you very much for helping! I'll have to go back and look more into the Waerd and Desert descriptions... I don't remember them being very beneficial to anyone that doesn't actually live in those areas...

I just recently joined the "Temple of the Sun". I would just like to say that while talking to them in discord I have discovered that they are very dedicated to their temple idea. They plan on using the 25k EP to make a grand wonder of the world. Somewhere open to everyone with magnificent architecture and materials to house the Sunstone. I think more than anything that allowing them to use the Sunstone and EP to create a unique place like this in Elyria would add a lot to the character and story ot Elyria. This would not just benefit the Temple of the Sun but every Elyrian as a whole.

Posted By PixiePunchPie at 8:13 PM - Thu Dec 20 2018

Will the northern mountain area have hill places that can be cultivated for large fields? Isn't that typical of mountains?

Sure, in the outside areas, and the Hrothi will supposedly have most of their farms outside their caverns for that exact reason, underground produce will only supplement that. A sunstone could be used to expand on this with more regular crops during the darker/colder periods, but my argument was that such a purpose might not be as efficient with the Hrothi compared to the Waerd underground areas.

Plus I don't see very much of what the Waerd can provide for the server aside from maybe Clay, but we can get that from any desert or swamp/bog area right?

In regards to extracting resources the Hrothi have more valuable products, I agree. But to use it for mining purposes and similar resource extraction you would want to put it on a wagon or something rather than in a stationary location. This would not be an ideal solution for anyone who care about securing it. In addition, extraction of these resources don't depend on a light source, it's just a convenience that can be solved with more and better lamps instead.

A underground farm is a solution that do require a significant light source while also allowing for the sun stone to remain in a fixed location.

But without being able to terraform, won't it be more difficult for them to build an underground greenhouse type thing from a located river or aquifer? Or are those typically large enough to support an entire farm?

CoE might not have terraforming, but it does allow tunneling, which means it allows creation of caves, basements, dungeons, and underground settlements. Hrothi may mostly have underground settlements, while Waerd will apparently have partial underground and above ground settlements.

If true to the lore one can probably expect most Waerd settlements placed with access to an underground river, in the shade of a mesa.

I don't remember them being very beneficial to anyone that doesn't actually live in those areas...

That's because under normal circumstances that would be true; this is an opportunity to turn that around a bit. The sun stone basically cover 6x6 parcels of land, which could be quite a few potential farms. Although that surely won't help feed the entire server it allows the Waerd a chance to contribute in the agricultural aspect.

Since when have any people or intelligent beings of any culture decided where a one of a kind item should go based on need? May the best man/woman win, and whoever is lucky enough to get it also be lucky enough to keep it.

Posted By Nkrumah at 10:26 PM - Thu Dec 20 2018

Since when have any people or intelligent beings of any culture decided where a one of a kind item should go based on need?

You mean, humans are generally not civilized enough yet to do so in practice.. Still, in regards to who or what you want to support it's a valid discussion to have. This event will likely not be won by popular vote though, I'm sure most are aware of that.

Posted By ShadowTani at 3:18 PM - Thu Dec 20 2018

Posted By PixiePunchPie at 8:13 PM - Thu Dec 20 2018

......

Using the sunstone in a Hrothi duchy to light up a farming location would enhance that area's ability to produce metals and ores and the like. I completely agree that having the sunstone move around is a terrible idea. But utilizing the artifact to try and allow a settlement to break into a the agricultural market only enhances the one tribe or duchy and does not benefit the whole server. They may be more able to utilize the artifact year round, but to what end? What return on investment can we, as a server, expect from the Waerd?

After combing through their write up again the only thing I really see them providing to the server is spys and assassians. This may be good for the people in or who want to be in power but for the majority of the playerbase, who will end up being workers in some capacity or other, there really isn't much of a benefit to lifting up the Waerd at the present moment.

I do forsee the Waerd being among the most important tribes once we get to utilizing glass and oil, but that will be far in the future with advanced industrialized technologies.

Posted By Labbe at 09:57 AM - Thu Dec 20 2018

Not sure who is going to win ultimately, but I hope it gets used in a creative way to draw in new people, and not just given away or stashed in a vault somewhere.

You and me both!

Posted By Bayerd at 1:42 PM - Thu Dec 20 2018

I just recently joined the "Temple of the Sun". I would just like to say that while talking to them in discord I have discovered that they are very dedicated to their temple idea. They plan on using the 25k EP to make a grand wonder of the world. Somewhere open to everyone with magnificent architecture and materials to house the Sunstone. I think more than anything that allowing them to use the Sunstone and EP to create a unique place like this in Elyria would add a lot to the character and story ot Elyria. This would not just benefit the Temple of the Sun but every Elyrian as a whole.

I am all for enhancing the lore of the server and would love to contribute to the Grand Wonder that will be the Temple of the Sun! But I'm not convinced that the sunstone would be the best way to contribute. I don't even know who the Hrothi duke/duchess is (or who plans to be)! So ya'll have that on me LOL! At least you have a name for people to send coins to :P

Posted By ShadowTani at 5:19 PM - Thu Dec 20 2018

Posted By Nkrumah at 10:26 PM - Thu Dec 20 2018

Since when have any people or intelligent beings of any culture decided where a one of a kind item should go based on need?

You mean, humans are generally not civilized enough yet to do so in practice.. Still, in regards to who or what you want to support it's a valid discussion to have. This event will likely not be won by popular vote though, I'm sure most are aware of that.

To add to ShadowTani's point: There's no reason why we can't. If we don't start here, where? If not now, when?

Mountains and mountainous hill country are not a good place to grow food. It takes a huge amount of landscaping/terraforming/soil/land enrichment to make it even close to comparable farming wise to your basic flat land/plains area...as well as having to compete with a cold/temperate mountain area type, of which the Hrothi/Brudvir have many types of coniferous trees, including those in boreal forests, making virtually all of the soil very acidic. Add to that a very rocky/poor soil quality. All in all while growing crops is possible, IMO it is very wasteful to attempt to use an artifact like the Sunstone to boost the crop growing by the tiny amount it would, in an environment that is very difficult on many facets, not just the reduced sunlight.

Posted By Dariusacmar at 05:46 AM - Fri Dec 21 2018

Mountains and mountainous hill country are not a good place to grow food. It takes a huge amount of landscaping/terraforming/soil/land enrichment to make it even close to comparable farming wise to your basic flat land/plains area...as well as having to compete with a cold/temperate mountain area type, of which the Hrothi/Brudvir have many types of coniferous trees, including those in boreal forests, making virtually all of the soil very acidic. Add to that a very rocky/poor soil quality. All in all while growing crops is possible, IMO it is very wasteful to attempt to use an artifact like the Sunstone to boost the crop growing by the tiny amount it would, in an environment that is very difficult on many facets, not just the reduced sunlight.

Hmm okay. Even though I plan to be a farmer somewhere I don't really know that much about what it takes IRL to farm. I just figured if we can help the miners that will benefit everyone. How about a Grasslands farming town then? Would that be of better benefit to the server? Or is there another group you would suggest that would help everyone?

Posted By PixiePunchPie at 6:04 PM - Fri Dec 21 2018

Posted By Dariusacmar at 05:46 AM - Fri Dec 21 2018

Mountains and mountainous hill country are not a good place to grow food. It takes a huge amount of landscaping/terraforming/soil/land enrichment to make it even close to comparable farming wise to your basic flat land/plains area...as well as having to compete with a cold/temperate mountain area type, of which the Hrothi/Brudvir have many types of coniferous trees, including those in boreal forests, making virtually all of the soil very acidic. Add to that a very rocky/poor soil quality. All in all while growing crops is possible, IMO it is very wasteful to attempt to use an artifact like the Sunstone to boost the crop growing by the tiny amount it would, in an environment that is very difficult on many facets, not just the reduced sunlight.

Hmm okay. Even though I plan to be a farmer somewhere I don't really know that much about what it takes IRL to farm. I just figured if we can help the miners that will benefit everyone. How about a Grasslands farming town then? Would that be of better benefit to the server? Or is there another group you would suggest that would help everyone?

Grassland is almost always very good farmland....however we don't know the effects that the winter winds will have on the sunlit area....there may be sun, but if it's in the open, then the normal weather may very well keep that area too cold to grow crops. That is of course supposition. It being a relic, it may be powerful enough to create an entire mini biome of weather along with the sunlight. My best idea for it's use would be in a giant cavern that has been modified to be rich farmland by importing rich dirt and has a good underground water source, or has those things naturally occurring and not needing the importing of the dirt. You'd need it in an area you could partially control the air flow/currents through tunnels/shafts/blinds and such and it would need to be in an already fairly warm environment. A Waerd Cavern would be ideal for said biome, which I did get the idea off of ShadowTani's post...although of course modified slightly from her idea.