That’s pretty much how the game systems will work. However, traditional tags aren’t immersive and probably won’t be used. It’s a lot like life.

Less like life, the spiritual cost of misdeeds reduces the spark, causing deviants to live shorter lives and deviant players to require more sparks.

The wrinkle is not about how to handle ingame deviant play and PvP, which is just a play style and should have a place in COE (just as the effort to create places where people can be protected from it through player action and not game design should have a place). The wrinkle is how to handle griefing that uses a game mechanic unexpectedly, exploiting the inevitable gaps in design to create results that cause other players trouble. I expect that many exploits will be filled by a dev response, as they are not part of planned gameplay. However, there might be things that aren’t because of a genuine dispute about whether it is an exploit or not. Local laws banning certain practices should be able to address those things, but that really remains to be seen based on how the implicit contract system works.

Posted By gregoryfl at

I had a thought regarding player griefers that, to me, might be a more effective deterrent, as well as a more immersive play experience.

If a player chooses to attack another player, and they succeed in killing them, then that player gets flagged in any nearby cities to be arrested by the guards. If captured in a city in such a way, there is a short trial and execution scene (such as by hanging from the gallows).

If the player in question chooses to avoid town, then there are also posters throughout the town that contain the names of any such player killers, with an ascending bounty price depending on how many players they have killed, that anyone can click on and go hunt outside of town. If they are killed by another player who has accepted the bounty, they can loot some sort of proof of the deed from the body, take it back to town, and receive their reward.

Players must take a bounty to legally kill the player; otherwise, they too will be labelled a murderer and subject to arrest and bounty themselves.

In either case, here is where the harsh difference would be that should make a player think twice about griefing...if they are killed by bounty or by execution, their character is gone forever and they have to pay for another lifespan starting from scratch again.

Your suggestion is quite a bit harsh...

How would anyone know that someone was killed somewhere lonely in the woods? So where should that "flag" or "tag" realistically come from? Thats totally not immersive.

Instead, the way CoE does plan to do it is immersive: If someone does anything wrong and someone finds out, they can place a bounty on him and get him to court. Depending on laws (which will be playermade), there will be punishments for crimes. Lawmakers may set the punishment to permakill as you ask for, but most likely wont for most crimes. We've been told that laws and punishments for cetain crimes can be set by those that make laws. Setting a punishment for murder to 52 years of lifespan is actually the same as death penalty. I'd be fine with 30+ years for murder... but thats up to the nobility.

And its not about killing someone with a bounty, the goal is to drag deviants to court after fighting them to unconciousness/surrender and punish them there.

Pking is not the only form of griefing. The king of a country could easily be a griefer by making the taxes ridiculous.

Posted By Thecutepig at 9:51 PM - Sat Feb 02 2019

Pking is not the only form of griefing. The king of a country could easily be a griefer by making the taxes ridiculous.

But a king that does such is creating a good story with revolts :)

Most griefers are not good for story, just annoying.

If thats your arguement then griefing is the same. Good for story. I just feel that perhaps you should acknowledge all forms of pvp and not just discriminate of people who may be more skilled than you. Like maybe an extra penalty if you kill the same person 10 times than just killing 10 random people.

I really wish I had that quote from Caspian, that went something like "What people call griefers in other games, aren't griefers in CoE". These threads normally go around in circles.

Well... doesnt matter which game, but if someone terrorizes another player with the only goal to be as annoying as possible and no ingame value that he gets from that... I call that griefing.

Steal goods, fine. Kill and rob someone, fine. Kill your competitors lifestock, fine. Well, obviously not fine, but deviant lifestyle is part of the game.

But if you already got your loot, there is no viable reason to kill someone 5 more times in a row on his way back to the next settlement. At least, he wont lose anything more and the punishment for getting caught will still go up for the griefer... And killing someone 6 times in a row is absolutely no addition for the story compared to "I was in the woods, gathering some materials and a bandit killed me". For the story, it doesnt matter if you were killed once or 6 times, there is a reason to search for that bandit to stop his behaviour.

I mean you can only take so much loot per time a person dies. Killing you more is a much better reason just for the loot. You should hire some body guards if that is your real worry. Maybe find some like minded explorers to gather with you. Perhaps get a manbearpig pet. Something big and nasty to protecc you from not only players, but NPCs

Posted By Gromschlog at 11:48 AM - Sun Feb 03 2019

Well... doesnt matter which game, but if someone terrorizes another player with the only goal to be as annoying as possible and no ingame value that he gets from that... I call that griefing.

That right there is the problem. How do you know he isn't getting something from it. Unless SBS goes into some crazy level of detail about what counts as griefing. Each person will have a different definition of the word. Thus why these threads go in circles.

To use an example to go against your point. If I wanted to invade the county over, I would first utterly cripple their farmers. So I would hire a person/group to run them out. If that means they have to kill them over and over etc, so be it. Helps me. Weakens the county massively.

So while you and no doubt many would call that griefing. I would just say it's all part of the game. Not that it should work, since surely the people within the county should be protecting their own anyway. Which can be said about anything. If people aren't helping each other, well they are leaving themselves open for this type of stuff to happen.

Griefing doesn't exist in this game.

Learn to fight or at the very least defend yourself and there will be no such thing as grief.

define pvp define griefing

Posted By gregoryfl at

I had a thought regarding player griefers that, to me, might be a more effective deterrent, as well as a more immersive play experience.

If a player chooses to attack another player, and they succeed in killing them, then that player gets flagged in any nearby cities to be arrested by the guards. If captured in a city in such a way, there is a short trial and execution scene (such as by hanging from the gallows).

If the player in question chooses to avoid town, then there are also posters throughout the town that contain the names of any such player killers, with an ascending bounty price depending on how many players they have killed, that anyone can click on and go hunt outside of town. If they are killed by another player who has accepted the bounty, they can loot some sort of proof of the deed from the body, take it back to town, and receive their reward.

Players must take a bounty to legally kill the player; otherwise, they too will be labelled a murderer and subject to arrest and bounty themselves.

In either case, here is where the harsh difference would be that should make a player think twice about griefing...if they are killed by bounty or by execution, their character is gone forever and they have to pay for another lifespan starting from scratch again.

Then I'll follow you into the countryside and just wound you to within an inch of your life and never let you recover.

If you try to retaliate, i'll have my naked buddies run in circles around you (whom are also within an inch of their lives), and if you kill any of them trying to get to me then you'll be executed and permakilled, just like you wanted.

Griefing has many flavors.

Only you need to choose to engage with someone to damage them. You can't just jump in line to prevent this very thing.