Food for thought for SBS critics.

This is an article that Firefox Pocket plopped into my home screen.

E3 discussion on video game creators union

6/14/2019 4:32:34 AM #1

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

6/14/2019 8:09:58 AM #2

So, developers have challenges just like every other professional? Ok...

6/14/2019 10:05:42 AM #3

Yep, even quite a few articles like this the past year, 'Time' is late to the party. ;)

Mostly self inflicted wounds however, by both the employees t for submitting themselves to such treatment, to the employers striving to maximize revenues and profits at any and all cost.

Other industries struggle through similar, years of high stress and overwork in a software management position lead to me suffering an anxiety "breakdown" which took me a year or so to recover.

These days I am firmly a member of an agile software delivery "team" and I almost look forward to going to work, though I still do too many free overtime hours each week.

You must all be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to get angry. JAMES 1:19 NLT

6/15/2019 1:22:53 AM #4

The artist are in the worst position, they have to build alot of assets and get paid the least.

It depends on the studio, some of the bigger studios have pools, fitness studios ect included for relaxation of their employees...

If anyone should complain it should be doctors.. studying around 10 years, 80+ hour weeks and sometimes earning less then 10 dollars an hour while saving lifes and the situation is getting worse and worse...

6/15/2019 3:53:25 AM #5

Here's the question I was seeking discussion on:

Are we owed someone else's miserable life by being their customers?

Of course this applies to all professions and industries, and isn't restricted to the gaming industry or the entertainment industry.

P.S. I didn't notice all the dislikes at first. I love them, keep them coming!

6/15/2019 4:57:07 AM #6

Posted By Poldano at 1:53 PM - Sat Jun 15 2019

Here's the question I was seeking discussion on:

Are we owed someone else's miserable life by being their customers?

Of course this applies to all professions and industries, and isn't restricted to the gaming industry or the entertainment industry.

No, we're not. Ultimately, it's not even for our sakes that those workers are working, for the most part; we're a faceless mass, the word "consumer" branded on every leering face. The consumer horde is an endlessly hungry, fickle creature, full of piss and vinegar. But the consumer is also the lifeblood of trade, and trade is the vital digestive system of the beast that is Capitalism. Overwork of the organ cells (the workers) is not a matter of being owed; it's a matter of a system seeking efficiency at the cost of its health. People are not an infinitely sustainable and exploitable resource. We can only output to a certain quota sustainably before we start to falter and fail, As certain aspects of our economic system being to prey on other, vital components, we start to see the strain referenced in the OP, a symptom of potential organ failure.

I don't foresee collapse, not in the immediate future. But the core problem that leads to symptoms like this is that people are striving to have their basic needs met in a system that makes meeting those needs increasingly difficult. As survival becomes an increasingly challenging prospect, people begin sacrificing morals, scruples and other such necessities of civilisation for its sake, and for the chance to achieve financial independence; to get out of the rat race. Lasting change requires people to be able to meet their needs and still have room to breathe/rest/enjoy life/create better circumstances for themselves in even the most menial of jobs. Right now, that's a pipe dream.

To touch Divinity, one must be prepared to brave Reality.

6/15/2019 11:51:42 AM #7

I'd be quite relieved to hear the industry unionizing properly within the next couple years. I like games and all, but I have no interest in supporting the moneymonkeys who work people to death to make them. Thank you for keeping this topic on peoples' minds. It's more important than we think.

"It's not the scales, the wings, the teeth, or even the breath that set a dragon at the pinnacle of creation. It's not the strength or senses, nor the size of his hoard. It's something that a dragon knows that only comes with age and experience. It's a skill mortals never truly master."

"A dragon...knows how to wait."

6/15/2019 2:28:49 PM #8

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

6/16/2019 12:51:22 AM #9

Posted By Vucar at 07:28 AM - Sat Jun 15 2019

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I'm well acquainted with the quip. I've used it myself often enough.

But, what happens if the only places where one can eat are in the metaphorical kitchen? That's the gist of @Valtar's comment, among others.

6/16/2019 5:51:19 AM #10

“Every game you like is built on the backs of workers”


"Everything is built on the backs of workers" This includes computer games.

Obviously a better model needs to be developed and workers rights need to be respected, including in the game industry.

A big part of the problem in the game industry though is driven by the way games acquire funding. Investors have strict demands, and desire models that value short term profit (such as loot boxes etc.), projects relying solely on kickstarter funding etc. have tight funds so have to choose to sacrifice either quality or hold to deadlines as tightly as possible. Both models lead to a lot of crunch.

Capitalism doesn't work well with gaming industry, just like any arts. It requires broader community support and government funding and regulation to help solve a lot of these issues, or at least reduce them.

6/16/2019 4:47:21 PM #11

From a guy that's been there done that.

I'm not talking about SBS at all.

As developers we developed the crunch culture. In the past we would often work long hours for no pay. Working only on the promise that we'd get paid in profit sharing if the game was successful. The long hours became the norm and is expected in the industry now at most places.

Makes me sad that we don't make games for fun and passion anymore. Once it became a means to put food on the table, when people started seeing the dollar signs, Game started being made from formulas of success to make as much money as possible sometimes preditory in the pursuit.

Want evidence loot boxes and cash shops. One battle Royale game had success and now seems like everyone is releasing or developing one.

To all at SBS do me a favor. When DSS is over take a break for a bit and have a cook out. Take pictures a friggin share them.

Don't overwork yourselves your sanity and mood effects your work more than you know.

6/17/2019 2:32:48 AM #12

Posted By Vucar at 10:28 AM - Sat Jun 15 2019

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

idk about that one. Almost every similar creative industry has a huge and pretty powerful main union to stop people these companies from being literal slave-drivers except the game industry.

It's sad that corporations literally need people to riot against them in these type of fields for basic ethical work environments. Like really sad.

Now I will say I don't have any idea what this has to do with SBS critics like the title says with them being an indie development company. The article linked was almost entirely about publishers vs developers and executives vs developers but at SBS they are one in the same right now so any of the wounds would be quite literally self inflicted and most likely willingly. CoE is a passion product for alot of the devs I have seen so I don't really think the article applies in the way the OP is trying to imply.

I don't know anymore.

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