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New DJ on Bolstering, SP, and Earn to Play
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For those who don't check the home page:

DJ #17: Bolstering and Earn-to-Play


4/28/2016 10:50:17 PM #1
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Delighted to have read it and will have some initial thoughts on the blog in the next hour or so. Something longer in a few days.


Proud to be KS Backer #21

4/28/2016 11:37:45 PM #2
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Good take on both mechanics 10/10


4/28/2016 11:53:02 PM #3
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As promised... a quickie blog:

http://elyriajournal.com/design-journal-bolstering-earn-to-play/


Proud to be KS Backer #21

4/29/2016 12:42:30 AM #4
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I do have a concern with the system. In a way it makes stamina a higher value stat. This could lead to one person purely focus on stamina boosting some on focused on strength to a higher stamina. So, the person with high strength also having high stamina at the same time?


<strong>Coming Soon</strong>

4/29/2016 12:52:36 AM #5
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Example?


4/29/2016 1:01:06 AM #6
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@Caspian: Thank you, thank you, thank you for making an effort to allow players who only have limited availability still competitive. That alone increased my planned Kickstarter contribution by 50%


4/29/2016 1:08:58 AM #7
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I think this is a great Caspian.

Every solution to the pervasive problem you outlined may have flaws and exploits (such as a PvP focussed guild or family min/maxing chars to optimise the bolstering for raids against more story driven groups/PCs), but this is the most eloquent solution I've seen and walks the great line between improving fairness, while not undermining individuality of characters.


4/29/2016 3:25:52 AM #8
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I really like this Developer Journal, this is one of the best systems in my opinion, it balances at least on paper so many different styles of play and what is even more amazing it is meaningful.


4/29/2016 3:37:21 AM #9
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Here's an example Caspian, it's something I've thought about too.

You say in the DJ:

> When you group up with one another, your Stamina is automatically raised to his (we take the highest in the party) to ensure that the party can travel together without having to stop and take breaks based on the weakest link.

Let's say for arguments sake there is a character with the following stats:

[Player 1] Str: 3; Agi: 1; Sta: 30 Will: 2; Rea: 2; Foc: 1 Pers: 2; Int: 1; Lea: 2

Skill Points: 44

Say you had another 2 friends in the same family that wished to play also.

[Player 2] Str: 2; Agi: 3; Sta: 5 Will: 8; Rea: 7; Foc: 6 Pers: 3; Int: 3; Lea: 5

Skill Points: 42

[Player 3] Str: 2; Agi: 3; Sta: 5 Will: 2; Rea: 3; Foc: 6 Pers: 3; Int: 4; Lea: 5

Skill Points: 33

Now if, as specified in the DJ, the players all bolster to the top Stamina level out of the group it would leave players 2 and 3 with the following stats:

[Player 2] Str: 2; Agi: 3; Sta: 20 Will: 8; Rea: 7; Foc: 6 Pers: 3; Int: 3; Lea: 5

Skill Points: 57

[Player 3] Str: 2; Agi: 3; Sta: 20 Will: 2; Rea: 3; Foc: 6 Pers: 3; Int: 4; Lea: 5

Skill Points: 48

As you can see the Skill Points are pushed far higher than the initial Skill Points that Player 1 has.

What happens in this case?

Are Player 2 and Player 3 bolstered to far above the Skill Point level they should be at due to Player 1 having a stacked Stamina stat or does the Stamina only bolster to the point where total skill points of Player 1 would cap it? (Players would not go over the 44 Skill Point level held by Player 1).


4/29/2016 5:03:39 AM #10
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Ok, I'm at lunch let see if I can hammer this out really quick.

I'm gonna put this to the extreme just to get the point across.

[Player 1] Str: 1 Agi: 1 Sta: 44 Will: 1 Rea: 1 Foc: 1 Pers: 1 Int: 1 Lea: 1

[Player 2] Str: 7 Agi: 1 Sta: 1 Will: 1 Rea: 1 Foc: 1 Pers: 1 Int: 1 Lea: 1

[Player 2 ajusted] Str: 28 Agi: 3 Sta: 3 -44? Will: 3 Rea: 3 Foc: 3 Pers: 3 Int: 3 Lea: 3

So, Player 2 has low attributes but also has pure strength by training or assign points into strength. I don't think I have all the deltas information, but it would follow the curve similar to the way player two has assigned their points. In this scenario Players 2's str would be bolsters to 28 and because highest member of the party having 44 Stam player 2 would then have 28 str and 44 stam. Which would bring them over the stat total?


<strong>Coming Soon</strong>

4/29/2016 5:55:32 AM #11
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Ok. I think the thing that didn't come through clearly is that the raise to Stamina always happens first, but still counts against the point totals. When I said that Stamina always raises to the max, I meant regardless of where it falls in the point order.

So in Ross' example: [Player 1] Str: 3; Agi: 1; Sta: 30 Will: 2; Rea: 2; Foc: 1 Pers: 2; Int: 1; Lea: 2 (44 total)

[Player 2] Str: 2; Agi: 3; Sta: 5 Will: 8; Rea: 7; Foc: 6 Pers: 3; Int: 3; Lea: 5 (42 total)

[Player 3] Str: 2; Agi: 3; Sta: 5 Will: 2; Rea: 3; Foc: 6 Pers: 3; Int: 4; Lea: 5 (33 total)

This would cause the stamina to raise, but that's all. There wouldn't be any points left for other stuff. So you'd end up with:

[Player 1] Str: 3; Agi: 1; Sta: 30 Will: 2; Rea: 2; Foc: 1 Pers: 2; Int: 1; Lea: 2 (44 total)

[Player 2] Str: 2; Agi: 3; Sta: 7 Will: 8; Rea: 7; Foc: 6 Pers: 3; Int: 3; Lea: 5 (44 total)

[Player 3] Str: 2; Agi: 3; Sta: 16 Will: 2; Rea: 3; Foc: 6 Pers: 3; Int: 4; Lea: 5 (44 total)

The system attempts to raise Stamina first to ensure easier partying, but it doesn't allow anyone's points to go above the maximum. In reality, this is a contrived example, however, as there's no way to get Stamina that high w/o raising Strength/Agi as well.


4/29/2016 6:34:18 AM #12
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This makes sense for attributes. However, skills are a whole other mess. Take crafting for example:

In other MMOs, as a 4-hour per day player, I can eventually achieve master or legendary crafting skill like a 12-hour per day player, it just takes me 3 times as long in real life.

In CoE however, if every character is given a similar amount of life span in real life, then a 4-hour per day player can never achieve master status, because the system is designed for the advancement pace of a 12-hour per day player. Thus the character of the 4-hour per day player dies of old age before he can get his crafting to a useful level.

A couple ways to resolve this are:

  1. Let OPCs run scripts that advance their skills

or 2. Tune skill gain rate based on actual time spent in-game

or (my preference:) 3. Sort players onto servers based on their time availability and tune skill gain rates for each server. (There would need to be a mechanism that deters players from lying about their availability to game the system. For example, if you sign up for a 4-hour per day server, you no longer gain any skill after putting in 28 hours in a 1-week period)


4/29/2016 6:49:19 AM #13
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Tiberius, I have no idea what you're talking about. None of this DJ had anything to do with skill advancement (in fact it explicitly said this DJ didn't apply to skills).

I'm not sure where you're getting that the skill system in CoE is designed for players who can be on 12 hours per day.

As for the 1% of players becoming Legendary, that was explained a while back. In an effort to keep DJ's down to 2,000 words some of that DJ was cut and later re-explained. I think there's an Elyrian Echo or something around that explained in.

In any case, we've already made changes to the skill system now that there's a different way to learn and develop skills. I wouldn't try and over analyze.


4/29/2016 7:48:00 AM #14
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hmmm...i would have thought Caspian had more influence;)


4/29/2016 10:51:05 AM #15
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking - the stamina increase would be capped by the total skill points held by Player 1.

I think it's just this line:

> When you group up with one another, your Stamina is automatically raised to his (we take the highest in the party) to ensure that the party can travel together without having to stop and take breaks based on the weakest link.

That makes it all confusing - it makes it sound like Stamina of Player 2 and Player 3 will always be raised to match rather than just being the stat that's prioritised first before any of the remaining stats are allocated points.


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