8 April

Dev Journal #4: The Chat System

By Caspian

This started out as the second part of a two-part journal post that was going to cover Influence Points. However, I wanted to lead with a status update on the chat system and it ended up being a full journal post all by itself. So in this developer journal I'm going to do a deep dive into the chat system.

Chat Systems of Old

When I think back to my early days playing MUDs one thing I'm always reminded of was how enjoyable the conversation was. Because you spent so much time typing anyways the chat system and the game seemed somehow intertwined. They were inexorably linked by the words in your console window.

On servers that were relatively sparse, the frequent conversation made it feel like there were always players there, walking side-by-side with you in your adventure. On the other hand, because the chat log was also everyone's game window, there was an unspoken (occasionally broadcasted) etiquette that said you didn't chatter unless your comments were highly relevant, targeted, or useful.

For most conversation you would "say" things. This limited visibility to those who were in your immediate area. Because people didn't want their chat log flooded with unsolicited messages while in combat, it was fairly common for you to see where someone was and then walk to their location before sending them a message. This created a sort of intimacy. You'd find the person, check out their equipment, maybe see if they were wearing any medals or had any tattoos, and then if they weren't too busy (in combat) you'd say hello.

In other situations - such as when being chased by something bigger and meaner than you, or when lost in an ancient pyramid - you might yell or shout for some help. While less frequent, the limited range meant there was rarely so much yelling that it was problematic. If it did become a problem, someone would appeal to the gods and they'd sick a plague on you until you shut up.

On my favorite MUD there were also different chat "channels". The channels were the most interesting and diverse part. There were channels for newbies, channels for each race, for each class, for each major zone... you get the point. There was even a channel for when the city was under attack and you needed to coordinate a defense.

Many modern MMOs have attempted to duplicate the above chat model with say/yell abilities that are rarely used and General, Trade, Region/Local, etc... channels that are frequently abused. The sheer number of players on most MMOs causes the signal-to-noise ratio to be so low as to make the channel incomprehensible - something that is only made worse by trolls, spammers, and gold farmers.

Chat System of Chronicles of Elyria

In Chronicles of Elyria, my aim is to mitigate many of the pitfalls of modern MMOs and bring back some of the benefits (or side effects) of older games by enacting a few, relatively small changes to the way the chat system works.

Instead, there will be pre-registered, moderated chat channels for newbies. You can think of these channels like your direct access to the gods (or very helpful people). When you type, your messages will only be visible to the GMs or volunteers approved for responding. Someone will then reply to you with an answer. When that happens, both your request, and their answer will be visible to all in the channel.

When not in a party/raid: whisper only works close range, and only to a single person. Say and Shout will be readable by all those around you and will have increasing range.

When in a normal party: "whisper" will be readable by all those in close proximity who are also in your party. Say and shout continue to be heard by all around you in increasing range.

When in an organized raid group: whisper will be heard by your party only, say will be heard by your party and those in command (at all levels), and shout will be heard by the entire raid.

  1. There will be no trade, general, etc... channels. Most people either ignore them or abuse them. Additionally, each of those channels are attempts at solving separate problems to which there are better solutions.
  2. "Whisper", "Say", and "Shout" have well-defined ranges with specific purposes depending on whether you're in a raid or group (and potentially in combat).
  3. "Tell" only works with people on your friends list and with a second, very special group of people I'll disclose more about in a future developer journal. This is one of the more controversial changes. This change is in part to limit people from sending unsolicited "tells" and partly because in Chronicles of Elyria, you really want to be introduced to the person you're talking to. You want to see them with your own eyes in order to identify them effectively.

  4. There will be chat channels with the added capability to register/reserve and moderate channels. These chat channels will work identically to the way IRC channels work. Additionally, you can choose whether you want each of your channels to show up as separate tabs in the same chat window, or as separate, minimizeable chat windows on the bottom of your screen. If you choose separate, the dialog titles will flash whenever you receive a new message so you'll know to restore them to read the message.

Before you get too excited I should point out a few caveats to the chat channel system. First, the chat channel system is really designed for out-of-character or meta-game conversation. As a result, you will always be identified by (and only by) your player alias - not your character name. If you keep your identity as a player separate from your identity as a character, it's possible to have a conversation in the chat channel while also having a separate conversation in-game with the same person - and never know you're talking to them! This is by design and for reasons we'll explore later.

The other caveat is that unlike in most games, organizations/guilds do not automatically get a private chat channel. If you want to get the player aliases of your guild members and invite them to a private channel you may do so, however it's not automatic. This is done for two reasons. First, it breaks the immersion. If you want to have a guild meeting, then rent/purchase a guild hall, gather, and hash stuff out face-to-face. Being able to manage guild business remotely means guilds can spread out so far as to not be able to travel back to their origin city for meetings. This violates some of the realism of the world I'm striving for. Can players just use a VoIP technology to have guild meetings anyways? Sure. But this gets my point across.

The second, and more important reason, is that guilds serve a specific purpose in Chronicles of Elyria - different than in most MMOs. As a result, you want to ensure you're talking to the people you think you are - but the game leaves room for the possibility that you aren't...

Progress and Why the Chat System First

Progress overall is going well on the chat system. It's nearly complete with only chat channels remaining. I anticipate having the system available to a limited number of people in January.

Per a previous thread, the chat system in Chronicles of Elyria uses XMPP to allow conversation outside the game with people logged into the external chat system with any XMPP client. This is done so that people can be notified of important in-game events as they're happening. Per rule #3 above, you'll only be able to talk to people in/out of game that are on your friends' list. You'll also be able to chat with people in chat channels, but again, only as your player alias, not as a specific character.

As to why I began working on the chat system first - two reasons. First, MMOs are social games. If the chat system doesn't feel complete, feels cumbersome, or doesn't stand on its own as a way to facilitate conversation, then it won't enable good multiplayer experiences.

The second, less obvious reason is that getting the chat system in place requires a good deal of other infrastructure. It requires account registration, login/authentication, network/message handling, encryption, etc... By finishing the chat system first, it puts the server in a good place to be expanded for the rest of the MMO game mechanics.

Up Next

Up next we'll finally get around to talking about Influence Points. I promise.


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Count_Emiya - 4 months ago

2 year necropost.

Talavar - 4 months ago

Posted By Count_Emiya at 11:24 AM - Sat Mar 24 2018

2 year necropost.

Thanks for stating the obvious .. However, Considering it's a dev journal, it doesn't matter. It is where it belongs. Necro-ing a subject based system is common, especially when new ideas or relevant factors become available. when people want to understand something about the chat system, this is the page where they go (obviously, this is where I landed when looking it up).. All relevant information, and suggestions belong here.

Fenrer - 4 months ago

Although I am generally against talking (not first language, accents, mumbling..) and I usually have all sound nearly turned off due to family life, voicechangers have always been on my wish list, just never found a good one that wouldnt just sound like a horrible mechanical squirrel or someone trying to wreck my eardrums in other ways.

Talavar - 4 months ago

Posted By Fenrer at 11:04 AM - Sat Mar 24 2018

"Although I am generally against talking (not first language, accents, mumbling..) and I usually have all sound nearly turned off due to family life, voicechangers have always been on my wish list, just never found a good one that wouldnt just sound like a horrible mechanical squirrel or someone trying to wreck my eardrums in other ways."

Considering the servers are going to be territory based "US. west, US east, etc" language barriers/accents should be minimal, and language barriers would exist without voicechat anyway. Mumbling is a whole other issue... Easily solved with "SPEAK UP MAN!" lol.. I have an idea that European servers are going to end up having different languages being split up between the races.. AKA most italian players tend to play a specific race, because a lot of those players speak italian... ETC... should be interesting to see how that turns out. It would almost be like the real world is integrating itself into the system.. lol... Anyway.. this is not to say that people couldn't STILL have some form of typing chat system that is toggle-able.. simply that there are options that could go along side of it as well, and it would be interesting. :)

Talavar - 4 months ago

The future for gaming chat systems:

I expect that this forum entry will be fairly long. This system is a very important "feature" to the game and will influence the gameplay itself heavily. I have much to say, and a few suggestions that many may have not been thought of.

There are things to be considered while implementing the chat system in COE, as this game is actually setting the bar for future games in many fronts. Pioneering something is always a good kick to get things moving in the right direction, but how large the kick is depends specifically on how far the pioneer is willing to venture into the wilderness. Keep that in mind as you read what I have to say, and always remember, in many cases COE is "the first" to get many thing correct, but an experience is only as good as what your 5 senses pick up, so each integral part of this game needs to be carefully assessed and the question asked "is it as good as it can be?"

Text VS Voice While communication is taken with a grain of salt in any game, there is something to be said about immersion that needs to be addressed with both voice and text on a few fronts. There's a few problems with both, and they need to be adressed with possible solutions, instead of just "giving up" and "giving in" to what was always the standard. so let's hit it.

#1 is having a chat bar on your screen really that immersive? Now granted, we all have some huds to deal with. There has to be some interface between the character and the game for there to be a good communication of intentions between character and player. However, the less that is on the screen and controlled specifically with off-screen elements (keyboard and mouse), the more immersive the game is. This always poses a problem with text based chat systems. The first is that if you don't have your chat bar turned on, you may miss something important that someone has said, Hence it is always mandatory to have it up on the screen. An example of this is "Perrin" is out on the farm plowing his field, and has turned off his text so he really feels like he is in the coutryside, taking in the full experience. His wife "Hilda" is in the house baking up a storm, trying to get that souffle just right. While Hilda is in the house she looks out the window and sees a bear coming down from the woods into the field. She types "LOOKOUT! PERRIN A BEAR IS COMING." which he obviously doesn't see.. (queue sad funeral).


A possible way to avoid this is to have chat bubbles that pop up over a characters head when they speak. Perrin MAY have seen this, but maybe not.. This also has obvious immersion breaking elements with it in general, and of-course, it becomes overwhelming in places of high density player congregation.. You'll never know if someone is actually talking to you personally without saying your name in a densely populated area, this is a problem when names aren't known by default. Whispering a stranger by directly clicking on them may be a suitable strategy, However, this can have it's caveats too, especially in an area where multiple people are standing in the same spot. I'm not sure if there will be player to player collusion, but if not, you're going to end up having 10 people standing in the same spot in front of a fish monger. so how do you click on just one? This is just one simple problem that will run into many, and honestly, chat bubbles just look sloppy in general when realism is the goal. If You have a bunch of people in the same area talking, how do you know who is saying what without chat bubbles when you know NONE of their names? When you venture into a new city, it's going to be REALLY complicated in densly populated conditions.

VOICE CHAT: Voice chat usually seems like the way to go for communication in games, but in dense populations, again, this poses a problem. Too many people talking at once can be overwhelming. Also, without name-plates your ending up with some of the same problems as the text-based chat. However, if you put a "volume limiter" into the client, this can be controlled. Basically this would assess the sharpness of the voice before it is sent out to the server and cap it's volume to a preset limit set by the server.. this can make sure that "all voices are created equal ;)" and then you would have a distance modifier at the server which makes it even better.

A second immersion breaking factor is age of player vs age of character. When your 10 year old buddy runs up to you, playing a 50 year old man, it's going to sound PRETTY hilarious when he talks. this is somewhat offset by the different races in the game, as smaller people may inherantly have higher voices, (or not), none the less it's not a one size fits all type of system..

The possible fix: There are a series of voicechangers available all over the net. These can make you sound like anything from a small child to a monster.. this technology COULD be integrated into the system at the client, and change the voice to a default correct sounding age based on a predetermined set of voice boundaries before the voice is sent to the server. Then you could allow a "slight" modification to the voice by the player.. Much like the character creation does in COE there can be predetermined limits to what your voice sounds like. these systems would help A LOT with immersion, while addressing many problems.. Also, it would be interesting for an option to hear what you character sounds like.. just so you can see how others hear you. :)

As some have previously mentioned.. long distance chat should be halted completely in the game. Realism is king here.. if others wish to break immersion my using something like discord.. so be it.. but many would prefer to stick with their characters real voice, and it gives incentive to NOT use discord, just so others could hear your character as he's meant to be.
Well, that's my 2 cents on the matter. You can poke around at it maybe get a few ideas. I bid you all Adieu.

Take care, and may your footprints be memorials to an honorable soul. ;)

Graybeard - 1 year ago

Hmmm I see what your getting at and thanks for the source, Just seems some parts would be difficult to type while doing some actions such as you ambush a trader on the road moving from town to town and having to wait while he types out his demands or even anything having to deal with combat etc, not involving your friends, But I do see how the random noise clutter from people around you and trolls would some what take away from it.

VictoriaRachel - 1 year ago

Graybeard there are already very long threads about VOIP and the different opinions on it's addition, such as this one here. While some people agree and think it will be more realistic and easier to communicate with players around you, others feel it is far less realistic and far more distracting with all the background noise that comes with it. So very much split opinion.

What we have heard from the Developers in the past is they are not concentrating on adding it as part of the game and expect players will instead use third party VOIP. There was talk of them integrating some VOIP but it would be limited to players not characters so would not be proximity based [Source].

Graybeard - 1 year ago

Will Voip ever be added or will CoE always be a text chat system? Quite a few benifits to have a Voip system added for a more realistic feel to the game and not floating chat bubbles or chat in a general chat box on screen

Green_Rice - 2 years ago

"it's possible to have a conversation in the chat channel while also having a separate conversation in-game with the same person - and never know you're talking to them!"

"the chat channel system is really designed for out-of-character or meta-game conversation."

So am I correct to assume based on those quotes that there will be a separate system for communicating with people in-character and in-person, using your character name/identity? Because if I want to play as an assassin who uses disguises and fake identities a lot, being identified by my username every time I go up to talk to someone, whether it's accepting an assassination contract or just buying something in town, is going to undermine that whole alias mechanic.

If there will be that separate system, I'm of mixed opinion whether it should be voice-based or not. It would definitely be immersive and realistic, and could allow for skills such as eavesdropping (though I suppose that could be done with text chat, too). On the other hand as Silence Will Fall pointed out, it could also break immersion if you're talking to a 80-year-old female PC with a 20-year-old man's voice.

I also second Wooga's request for contextual actions, whether purely visual or described in text as well, for when you're having a face-to-face conversation. Just having some simple things like waving, leaning forward/back, crossing arms, shaking hands, or giving a high-five would make talking face-to-face with characters much more realistic and immersive. Otherwise you'll be talking to someone with their arms at their sides and a neutral expression the whole time, which is not at all engaging.

Kartysan - 2 years ago

I read the comments for a bit, and I agree with everyone that's talking about voice chat

And I agree with Artaer above me! If voice can be used to do lots of those stuff, I'd really be hyped!

Because who wouldn't want to be like a badass and scream out their favorite skill? I sure as heck would. (Though if that seriously happened, voice command should be optional. I mean, I am as shameless as heck, but even I would be too embarassed whispering my favorite skills if I ever go and play outside my house, haha)

Silence Will Fall - 2 years ago

Until you meet a 80 years old in game character who speaks to you with a 15 yo voice... immersion breaking :)

Artaer - 2 years ago

Using voice to text. The possibilities! Just sayin. For spell-casting, for interpersonal communication, speed, ease, immersion. Please consider, if nothing else, support for these functions.

xxpowerofsoundxx - 2 years ago

i dont think the 5 to 10 people with magic will need voice commands lol.

CeciliaNightale - 2 years ago

Agree to that! Voice chat would be much better to use in many occasions. that and the fact that, at least personaly, I prefer speaking over typing cause I'm afraid of those typos :)

Edulahin - 2 years ago

SO all chat will be made by text? It would be a great adition if eventually we involve a Team Speak like in DayZ

Jbas911 - 2 years ago

I really love how the chat system only identifies your account name instead of character. The personal connection you get by talking Dire try to your friend in game in person is far better and more immersive. Love reading about this game

Kiriam - 2 years ago

Does the chat system will include as well voice-chat? It would be amazing since the chat system design encourages the "get to know the people first" idea.

While reading this Dev. Journal entry, it reminded me of pen-and-paper sessions of character communication "systems".

Woogawoman - 2 years ago

Having grown up on MUSHes more than MUDs, I would love to have additional roleplaying commands available in chat.

in TinyMUSH, you could of course "say" something, which would show '<Character name> says "text."' Shortcut was "

You could also "pose" something, though, which would show your text without quotes, such as '<Character name> smiles shyly at <other character>, with a hint of red creeping up his cheek.' Shortcut was : (or ; to add an 's to the char name, such as <Character name>'s watch beeps.)

There was even an emit pose, which would not prepend the character name at all. Used responsibly, this allowed for much more immersive roleplay. For example: "Leaning over the counter, Taylor took a deep breath and smiled at the aromas wafting from the kitchen." (Used irresponsibly, it allowed for anonymous emits to a room, so I can see why that might be problematic in an MMO.) Shortcut was @

Having the pose options would be wonderful, at least. It allows for so much more creative interactions than just "blank says" "blank says" over and over. Any thoughts on that?

Akrawec - 2 years ago

Glad you are addressing the importance of chat in a mmo. I can't count how many times after a long night of raiding that I find myself just conversing with players. These "spammers and trolls" can ruin a community before it starts, so many of the latest mmo's out have not been able to get the spam under control at release. It can get so bad that I would just turn off all chat functions, lose the sense of community, log out, and generally not log back in. A solid community is what keeps games going through the good and bad times. I'm not going to give examples ;) but a particular mmo title had a great community, and kept my interest for 11+ years, but sadly the community is dying.

Brynjar - 2 years ago

This system looks good for RP and will definitely help immersion. However, it may be difficult to get use to which could cause a lot of frustration. It will be interesting to see how this will turn out.

Sleep - 2 years ago

About possibly being frustrating to learn, I was thinking the same thing.

Foxxley - 2 years ago

Voip will definitely be needed for a successful guild, and I only say that because those guilds who do /not/ use Voip, will have to be forced to meet face to face in-game to talk to eachother. Therefore, giving other said guild with voip the upper hand :/

Chunky Skylord - 2 years ago

I've personally never used most chat systems for those exact reasons, I appreciate the time spent on making the best looking one so far. Hope I love it :p

Koronus - 2 years ago

Very good decision. That will bring high immersion and with that the rpler

Amarok - 2 years ago

Will there be the option to use "voice chat"? 

I was playing ARK earlier and i love that you can just talk to people over voice. (also very practical when in combat) 

paco_hojaverde - 2 years ago

Repressed Second Life memories...oh God...

Stormcaller - 2 years ago

Looks very promising! I like the idea of pre-registered newb channels, which reminds me of EVE where a similar approach is used and that worked fine for years now. Especially the feature, that only the Q+A combination gets posted is a huge plus for those. Awesome!

I also like that there will be no general chat whatsoever. Nowadays, most people tend to be in voice comms with their fellow players anyways when playing. And those who don't want that can register chat channels if they feel the need to, if I understood correctly?

One question though: The only cavaet I am seeing are starting areas or frequently visited areas. What would keep a gold seller from just standing there and yelling their malicious offers? Any plans to fight that?

QoE looks awesome so far and I can't wait to get more infos!

ehrid - 2 years ago

I was thinking about this and IMO to fully blend into the game I would abandon chat. To communicate with other player you would have to either write a letter (needs time to arrive and is delivered to specific location [just like in Tibia]) or use voice chat, but to speak with someone you needs to be close to each other, just like speaking in real life.

Sabbicat - 2 years ago

Vary interesting thought process on chat. I like how hopefull we can avoid the whole spammer / gold seller fiasco that goes on in some games.