From 11 months ago (and I think before I was a mod):

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/8678/time-to-drop-the-downvotes

Basically my thoughts on how downvotes can hurt a community.

Includes Caspian feedback.

Thanks for the link, Flash! (And apologies if I mis-catalogued this thread. Thanks for steering it home.)

I certainly see where Caspian is coming from. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if marketing concerns end up nuancing that take as time goes by.

There are quite a few users who "+1" posts they disagree with simply because they're well written & thought-provoking. So like I said, ambiguous. If SBS is relying on Caspian's interpretation of "-1=disagree," or "+1=agree," it's simply an unreliable assumption here on the ground.

Is it okay that I disliked this thread for comedic purposes?.. 👀

No problem Ecir, it's about the most official responses you'll be able to read as to why it's done this way on the forum.

And as you can see, I'm extremely sympathetic to the idea that down votes can be hurt a community/be used inappropriately.

(In fact, it might also shed some light, for some, on why I get very anxious when I see a thread being smashed in that way...)

Always happy to help.

Posted By Sieraen at 02:07 AM - Sun May 14 2017

Is it okay that I disliked this thread for comedic purposes?.. 👀

LOL Kudos for taking the bow for it, Sieraen! I chuckled when I saw the "-1" and said to myself "I have arrived!"

I like the Dislike button. I like to know what the Community's general thoughts are on something, and I think a Dislike button is needed to see the whole picture. Knee-Jerk reactions included.

Sure, a dislike by itself doesn't add anything to the discussion. But it does provide some interesting information as far as to what the general mood of the Community is.

I truly think it is a shame that some polite skeptical posts inviting discussion are dislike bombed, I truly do. However, it lets me know that there is a problem in the community. A problem I would have more trouble identifying otherwise.

I would classify my general attitude towards the game as Cautious Optimism. I have seen many other people who CLAIM the same, but the knee-jerk reactions I have seen on so many threads with massive dislike bombs tells a different story.

Posted By Flashman at 02:54 AM - Sun May 14 2017

From 11 months ago (and I think before I was a mod):

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/8678/time-to-drop-the-downvotes

Basically my thoughts on how downvotes can hurt a community.

Includes Caspian feedback.

Hmm....Do I poke the beehive? We will see. All I will say for now is that it is very interesting you once held that view and I might bookmark that thread.

Have seen this done before in other forums and do not agree with it.

If you remove the dislike button while keeping the like button then highly controversial posts are indistinguishable from universally popular posts.

Posted By Apaukolypse at 6:39 PM - Sun May 14 2017

Hmm....Do I poke the beehive? We will see. All I will say for now is that it is very interesting you once held that view and I might bookmark that thread.

Not sure what you think you're onto, but I still hold the view, LOL. So, go for it, mate.

Posted By Flashman at 05:22 AM - Sun May 14 2017

Posted By Apaukolypse at 6:39 PM - Sun May 14 2017

Hmm....Do I poke the beehive? We will see. All I will say for now is that it is very interesting you once held that view and I might bookmark that thread.

Not sure what you think you're onto, but I still hold the view, LOL. So, go for it, mate.

Very interesting you would cite downvotes as a reason to lock a thread then:

Posted By Flashman at

Clearly there are some in the community too immature to use the system correctly. The result being I see plenty of stuff getting downvoted that has no business being downvoted at all and stuff that is questionable receives the equivalent of bullying.

Posted By Flashman at 9:07 PM - Sat May 13 2017

Point of order. At the time I wrote, the OP was approaching 30 downvotes, which is an uncommonly large number. So not my 'personal bias' at all, but a reaction to what the community thought of it.

Posted By Flashman at 7:51 PM - Sat May 13 2017

With the OP approaching 30 downvotes, it's absolutely noted that the community is not appreciating the topic.

(To be fair, that isn't the ONLY reason you cited, and you ended up not locking the thread, both to your credit, but it is still an argument you advanced nonetheless.)

I don't think these statements are very compatible. Granted, I am sure you thought that particular thread had "business" being down voted (and I have a feeling you down voted it yourself), but it still shows you consider downvotes when locking a thread despite knowing that there are many people out there too immature to use the system correctly. You also knew that, from Caspian's response, the "Dislike" button isn't necessarily a show of "not appreciating" the Topic.

Make of that what you will.

lol Perhaps we should see a list of up and down voters when mousing over it.

In most cases, the content of posts are something that are worthy of a plus or down vote, so the system is worthwhile. In some cases though, a view of user's opinions on votes might give us a better picture of who we're settling with if you catch my drift, especially content that doesn't deserve downvoting :)

It might make choosing your neighbours a simpler decision for some.

Posted By Apaukolypse at 8:15 PM - Sun May 14 2017

Very interesting you would cite downvotes as a reason to lock a thread then

Have you considered the fact that I hate seeing some threads get unfairly smashed with downvotes, multiplied by how I feel about downvotes in general, as a reason why - in some cases - I think it's better to nip some threads before they get uglier? No? Well, there's something else to consider, before you think you've got me all figured out ;)

Posted By Oracle at 07:12 AM - Sun May 14 2017

lol Perhaps we should see a list of up and down voters when mousing over it.

In most cases, the content of posts are something that are worthy of a plus or down vote, so the system is worthwhile. In some cases though, a view of user's opinions on votes might give us a better picture of who we're settling with if you catch my drift, especially content that doesn't deserve downvoting :)

It might make choosing your neighbours a simpler decision for some.

I think that is an excellent suggestion.

Posted By Flashman at 07:16 AM - Sun May 14 2017

Posted By Apaukolypse at 8:15 PM - Sun May 14 2017

Very interesting you would cite downvotes as a reason to lock a thread then

Have you ever considered the fact that I hate seeing a thread get smashed with downvotes, multiplied how I feel about downvotes in general, as a reason why - in some cases - I think it's better to nip some threads in the bud before they get uglier? No? Well, there's something else to consider, before you think you've got me all figured out :P

Oho. I got a mod to play passive aggressive with me. Considering that + the Dislikes my posts gets right before you respond, I would say I may be getting to some nerves. Wasn't my intention, but it amuses me nonetheless. Anyhow, continue to make full use of the Dislike button despite disliking (pun intended) the concept of it.

If you truly thought that Downvotes were stupid and abused, you would never even consider them as a grounds for locking threads.

Or are you telling me what you really meant was "Oh, I just want to lock threads that get downvoted because downvotes rustle my jims >;O"?

The thread wasn't getting uglier anyway. A downvote isn't necessarily a indication of "ugliness", especially not "escalation of ugliness". It is more often a indication of controversy and debate, which are not necessarily ugly. The whole forum is made to facilitate such things. The thread was actually simmering down into reasonable debate to be honest, after starting rather heated on the first page. Your threat to lock the thread only made things worse. Just like your passive aggression here. You are more reasonable than this.

Notice how the OP had 22 dislikes but the actual "ugly" debate was getting either +1 or -1.

That implies that the suggestion was bad but the debate was okay. Which most of us agree on when you ask. No one agreed with the OP suggestion which warrants the dislikes but no one additionally had an issue with the debate. They aren't implicitly linked. I can not like his suggestion while still having a healthy and liked debate.

Rather than argue the intent of a downvote or upvote, (which is nigh indistinguishable) I'll defend downvotes on the grounds of balance.

Downvotes balance out the upvote system, as without them a minority has the potential to give the appearance of positive approval of a concept, when that isnt the case. Additionally, moving in a single direction biases the scale, and it becomes hard to quantity the attention a post has gotten (divergence from 0), for better or worse.

Now I understand that it can be disheartening to see -20 as the majority tends to be quick to condemn, however thats a problem with the user not the tool. Now something I like from another forum, is a system where 0 is the floor. Users may still balance out a post with upvotes and downvotes but a topic may only diverge positively. Therefore, its easy to gauge the positive attention an idea or post recieves without representing the negative attention. Also, i believe that this system decreases the propensity for group think (voting with the crowd).

This system keeps the majority from creating a inescapable negative attention hole, and the minority from falsely representing a positive sentiment for a post. It isn't perfect, the majority can supress a post by keeping it near 0, but its better than the system currently in place while maintaining some semblance of balance.

Anyway, thats my thoughts. Downvoting is a necessary "evil" that balances the feedback distribution, but it can stand to be improved.