COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Prison Time & Execution
-2

In the March Q&A they touched on tackling the crime and punishment system without cutting away too much of their play time/enjoyment.

They have mentioned spirit loss and I agree there should be at least different ranks of 'jail time' & spirit lost depending on crime, whether they are executed, and a multiple for repeat offences (from boosted infamy). Being executed should hit spirit much harder than the normal 2 day Coup de Gras, but when given 'prison time' there needs to be a way to dampen the amount lost (should reduce at least .5-.75 for incentive) via 'community service' of sorts giving the player a reason to keep playing.

There should be a choice given to spend time in prison 'working' in a variety of tasks to produce something. Maybe just working in the prison making cloth, nails, etc... or even laying stone roads for the city (under chain & guard of course). The amount & quality of their production should reduce the total amount of spirit lost as 'throwing yourself into work' is far less depressing than sitting in jail like a lump.

There also should be a way to escape both prison and while working under guard but they immediately become Kill on Sight, sounding the alarm and letting loose the hounds.

Escaping should trigger a LONG debuff for a manhunt where if killed you incur the same spirit lost as an execution but if you can escape you are 'home free' save from the bounty hunters lol.


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4/23/2019 11:03:40 PM #1
+1

If by LONG you mean just as long as the crime itself takes to be in lapse, as in forever for murder... then yes, I'll agree on the LONG part. However, if someone agreed to go to jail and to work off his punishment instead of losing a large chunk of lifespan and then tries to escape, I dont agree on then suffering only the same spiritloss as if he was executed at the first time. It should be more than that, if he gets caught again, because being a liar about his motives came on top of the crimes. Otherwise, no one is going to get executed, because everyone will go to jail and try to escape. Escaping prison should be possible, if the guards do several mistakes, but certainly not easy or the norm. And it should come with a risk. Losing the same amount of lifetime that one would have lost anyway is not really a risk that would stop anyone.

However, I'm clearly a fan of working off the crimes in a productive way that pays back what was done and some on top with no spiritloss as a reward for doing so (but then higher spiritloss if the deviant flees and has to be catched again).


Friend Code: 30EF47

4/23/2019 11:05:25 PM #2
+3

All of that could be handled by players communicating and essentially the offending player taking a plea deal to a lower sentence if they do good works.

But let's be realistic: most deviants will be playing the deviant lifestyle because they want to. They won't want to suddenly sing kumbaya and be a part of the settlement, they will want to take their loss and get back to what they see as their job: being a deviant.


4/23/2019 11:10:46 PM #3
-1

Posted By Gromschlog at 7:03 PM - Tue Apr 23 2019

If by LONG you mean just as long as the crime itself takes to be in lapse, as in forever for murder... then yes, I'll agree on the LONG part. However, if someone agreed to go to jail and to work off his punishment instead of losing a large chunk of lifespan and then tries to escape, I dont agree on then suffering only the same spiritloss as if he was executed at the first time. It should be more than that, if he gets caught again, because being a liar about his motives came on top of the crimes. Otherwise, no one is going to get executed, because everyone will go to jail and try to escape. Escaping prison should be possible, if the guards do several mistakes, but certainly not easy or the norm. And it should come with a risk. Losing the same amount of lifetime that one would have lost anyway is not really a risk that would stop anyone.

Yeah maybe another multiplier on the multiplier of infamy if they escape that is permanent and then the execution penalty during the debuff?


4/23/2019 11:13:41 PM #4
+44

We talk about crime and prison a lot in the office, because it's both an unsettled question in the game, and a really interesting challenge as a designer to address.

While it's not guaranteed to be a part of our justice system at all, one idea that I found sort of attractive actually deals with the idea of spirit loss and leaving prison. I'll present it as a thought experiment for you all to consider:

You are a murderer, whether by grim dance of fortune or intentional malice, you have unjustly ended the life of another mann. While pondering your fate, you are apprehended, brought before a judge, tried, and convicted of the crime. Luckily(?) for you, rather than facing execution, you are sentenced to 25 years of incarceration and brought to the kingdom's prison dungeon. Guards march you through the a stone archway that curiously has no door or gate or bars. They remove your restraints, and turn and walk away. On the inside of the archway are etched the following:

"A sentence given is a sentence earned"

The other inmates explain your fate: You can remain in the prison, serve out your sentence, and perhaps even find early release through service. Or, you can simply walk out through the archway. If you do, every day you should have served is stripped from your spirit and your status as an exile is permanently cemented: You will be attacked on sight by any officer of the crown that sees you.

Do you walk away, or do you serve your time?


  • Snipehunter
4/23/2019 11:19:34 PM #5
+3

Wow. I love that idea. Well thought experiment.


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4/23/2019 11:24:39 PM #6
+3

I 100% support this idea Snipehunter

4/23/2019 11:28:21 PM #7
+2

Posted By Snipehunter at 01:13 AM - Wed Apr 24 2019

We talk about crime and prison a lot in the office, because it's both an unsettled question in the game, and a really interesting challenge as a designer to address.

While it's not guaranteed to be a part of our justice system at all, one idea that I found sort of attractive actually deals with the idea of spirit loss and leaving prison. I'll present it as a thought experiment for you all to consider:

You are a murderer, whether by grim dance of fortune or intentional malice, you have unjustly ended the life of another mann. While pondering your fate, you are apprehended, brought before a judge, tried, and convicted of the crime. Luckily(?) for you, rather than facing execution, you are convicted to 25 years of incarceration and brought to the kingdom's prison dungeon. Guards march you through the a stone archway that curiously has no door or gate or bars. They remove your restraints, and turn and walk away. On the inside of the archway are etched the following:

"A sentence given is a sentence earned"

The other inmates explain your fate: You can remain in the prison, serve out your sentence, and perhaps even find early release through service. Or, you can simply walk out through the archway. If you do, every day you should have served is stripped from your spirit and your status as an exile is permanent cemented: You will be attacked on sight by any officer of the crown that sees you.

Do you walk away, or do you serve your time?

Interesting idea. But that does not leave any room for escape without facing the punishment, as long as one doesnt get caught, does it? Or is it just this archway that strips the lifetime and if one finds other ways, these don't and only apply the exile status? As long as service and earlier release are an option and as long as that allows to "work off" what I did instead of simply wasting time, I'd know my choice... but I'm not the usual person to face jail anyway^^


Friend Code: 30EF47

4/23/2019 11:36:38 PM #8
-3

That does sound like a good idea for the Tribes that do practice exile but I feel some of the more Northern Tribes would be less willing to give the criminal the option to walk away and would see them as potential revenue. Hrothi all about that $$.

Also I don't see 25 years (even game time years) as reasonable, I think I read 7 mins real time is 1 hour ingame and I know even though I don't roll evil, if framed or something I wouldn't want to spend more than an hour real time doing jail time.

If you have the jail time ranked by hours in game I wouldn't go more than 7 mins x 5 so 35 mins real time being max. Beyond that it should be execution, also the lawmaker should be able to rank the crimes accordingly.

After all the spirit lost and the Infamy is the true punishment you shouldn't take their play time more than necessary.


4/23/2019 11:37:30 PM #9
+12

Posted By Gromschlog at 4:28 PM - Tue Apr 23 2019

Interesting idea. But that does not leave any room for escape without facing the punishment, as long as one doesnt get caught, does it? Or is it just this archway that strips the lifetime and if one finds other ways, these don't and only apply the exile status? As long as service and earlier release are an option and as long as that allows to "work off" what I did instead of simply wasting time, I'd know my choice... but I'm not the usual person to face jail anyway^^

Heh I almost added "Some inmates speak of hidden paths and escape..." but I didn't want to muddy the waters. Generally speaking, if we implement prisons escape will likely be possible. You'd be branded an exile for certain, but likely you'd be able to avoid some or all of your spirit loss.

Hope that helps! :)


  • Snipehunter
4/23/2019 11:46:10 PM #10
+0

Has anybody brought up the idea that if a person is caught in a crime they must fight their way through a series of fights in an arena with the number of fights they must complete being determined by the number and severity of the crime(s)? For the purpose of enforcing this punishment any person with a legal warrant against them could have their incapacitated bodies shackled and transported to the arena. It would even be a good opportunity for some interesting game play if the criminals gang/clan were allowed to attempt a rescue while the prisoner is being transported. Once at the arena the number of fights the player could complete in a day would be limited to serve the purpose of jail time. The better a player does in the arena the less spirit loss they would incur for that incarceration but the greater their fame/infamy would become which would make all future deaths or incarcerations more costly.


4/23/2019 11:50:39 PM #11
+4

Posted By Emperor Spriggan at 01:36 AM - Wed Apr 24 2019

Also I don't see 25 years (even game time years) as reasonable, I think I read 7 mins real time is 1 hour ingame and I know even though I don't roll evil, if framed or something I wouldn't want to spend more than an hour real time doing jail time.

If you have the jail time ranked by hours in game I wouldn't go more than 7 mins x 5 so 35 mins real time being max. Beyond that it should be execution, also the lawmaker should be able to rank the crimes accordingly.

After all the spirit lost and the Infamy is the true punishment you shouldn't take their play time more than necessary.

actually, its either play time OR spirit loss. thats the point. You can either serve your time OR you get beheaded and get your spirit loss directly. In both cases, you'll be a known criminal afterwards, but getting the spiritloss wont take much playtime at that day. And the amount... well, it should certainly be more than just a few minutes. The amount of spirit loss for a caught criminal should surpass whatever he inflicted on his victims plus his infamity multiplier. The lost playtime should reflect the time he stole from his victims plus multipliers. If someone is a farmer and you burn his fields directly before he can harvest, then all the time that farmer invested in those fields is lost. Certainly more than just some minutes. And the multipliers are there, because not every criminal gets caught. There has to be a risk to crimes, otherwise they will be everywhere. If you dont want to get punished, dont do crimes or dont get caught.


Friend Code: 30EF47

4/23/2019 11:53:26 PM #12
+5

You could also Tattoo or Mark the prisoners of Mann, the tattoo would be removed when the sentence is done or commuted.

the tattoo would let a PC know that this person has escaped if found wandering the world, it could help with bounty hunting... you all get the idea.


This is my circus, those are my lions, so says the flying monkey. Magistrate in the Kingdom of Riftwood NA-W. Friend code A188BA

4/24/2019 12:11:31 AM #13
-1

Posted By Gromschlog at 7:50 PM - Tue Apr 23 2019

Posted By Emperor Spriggan at 01:36 AM - Wed Apr 24 2019

That does sound like a good idea for the Tribes that do practice exile but I feel some of the more Northern Tribes would be less willing to give the criminal the option to walk away and would see them as potential revenue. Hrothi all about that $$.

Also I don't see 25 years (even game time years) as reasonable, I think I read 7 mins real time is 1 hour ingame and I know even though I don't roll evil, if framed or something I wouldn't want to spend more than an hour real time doing jail time.

If you have the jail time ranked by hours in game I wouldn't go more than 7 mins x 5 so 35 mins real time being max. Beyond that it should be execution, also the lawmaker should be able to rank the crimes accordingly.

After all the spirit lost and the Infamy is the true punishment you shouldn't take their play time more than necessary.

actually, its either play time OR spirit loss. thats the point. And the amount... well, it should certainly be more than just a few minutes. The amount of spirit loss for a caught criminal should surpass whatever he inflicted on his victims plus his infamity multiplier. The lost playtime should reflect the time he stole from his victims plus multipliers. If someone is a farmer and you burn his fields directly before he can harvest, then all the time that farmer invested in those fields is lost. Certainly more than just some minutes. And the multipliers are there, because not every criminal gets caught. There has to be a risk to crimes, otherwise they will be everywhere.

I don't agree that its play time OR spirit loss as that contradicts your following that there has to be risk, there is no risk playing thru your prison time (unless you try to escape of course)

LIke I said in OP, not just playing thru your jail time but producing something should reduce the spirit lost quite a bit as you are benefiting your detainer/enemy(?) as well as buoying your 'spirit' by working, while logging out or just not doing anything and letting the jail time expire should incur the full penalty.

All the multiples and exponents they use to tally Infamy Im not too worried about, they probably have better Math'ers than me, as long as the base spirit loss diminishes the crime committed for that rank.


4/24/2019 12:18:31 AM #14
-2

Lets get down to brass tacks:

Something can be a punishment, or an enjoyable recreation -- not both, except for the strangely sadomasochistic.

If you design a prison system as a punishment to deter crimes and reduce anarchy in CoE, it cannot be fun and engaging, or it will deter nothing.

If you design a prison system as recreation to give prisoners something fun to do, it cannot be a boring experience -- or it will not be fun and engaging for the prisoners.

If you attempt to do both, you will fail at both.

4/24/2019 12:40:21 AM #15
+13

I have another idea: if you're caught committing a crime on an NA or EU server, we exile your account to the Oce server. Worked for the British...😋

I like the idea of the option. Pay with time locked in a confined space away from the rest of the world (except you fellow inmates) now, or pay in spark time and an early death of the character later.


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