8 August

Down the rabbit hole...

By Caspian

As we mentioned several weeks back, the design team and I are currently undergoing design review. This is the period when we take the high-level plans we had before and make sure all questions are answered and that there are enough technical details filled in that the engineering team can safely implement the feature areas.

To give you an idea of what we're looking at, some of the first feature areas we've reviewed (or are reviewing) can be seen here:

  • World / Character Selection
  • Environment
  • Characters & Character Creation
    • Soul Selection
    • Birth Date Selection
    • Family Selection
    • Genetics / bloodlines / Tribes
    • Gender
    • Regional Traits
    • Skills
    • Character customization

When going through the review process, we iterate over each feature area and make a list of questions.

This includes technical and UI question like 'what will the world/character selection screen look like', as well as functional questions such as 'how does your birth date specifically affect your destiny?' Finally, it often includes questions that result in data tables as well as statistical analysis, such as: 'what exactly are the different bloodlines/tribes of the world', and 'what is the average lifespan of an Elyrian for the purpose of character creation?'

You'll notice that Environment is near the top of the list. That corresponds with the recent changes we made to the day/night cycle, as well as the seasons.

Below that you'll see Characters & Character Creation. With the changes to seasons, it naturally made sense to re-evaluate the passing of time in Elyria, such as how many real-life days are in an Elyrian year.

Beyond that, the question of character creation ties in heavily with what a player's experience is like throughout their entire lifetime. This leads from one topic to another in a giant rabbit hole that keeps going deeper and deeper.

That, or a maze that keeps ending at the beginning of another maze. In either case, the labyrinth took us almost 16 hours of discussion over the last two weeks to navigate. But we finally came out the other side - with some design decisions which may surprise you.

But, before we jump into the latest design decisions, let's go through the roll call.

Concept Art

Over the last couple of weeks, Eddie has been polishing up the Kickstarter exclusive wallpaper. We shared a rough draft in a previous update, but here you can find the completed work.

Haven Wallpaper Figure 1 - Haven Wallpaper

At some point in the future, we'll be re-adding wallpapers to the media section of the website. At that point, we'll be releasing the Haven Wallpaper to people who explicitly backed us on Kickstarter or through our online store during the first month of it being open (which is now being worked on).

For those that haven't been following the lore, Haven is, according to the Qindred, the capital city and home of our Ancient ancestors from before the Burning. Haven existed - or exists - on a plane separate from our own. To the Qindred, there would be no greater joy than finding their way back to Haven.

Production

Ok. A few things to talk about on Production. First, our new Web Developer, Zac 'ZRO' Rogerson, joined us on Monday. Zac joins us from En Masse Entertainment, where he was a Lead Web and UI Developer on TERA and other projects. This week he jumped right in and took over the web development for the 2.0.9 patch and has since moved on to the 2.1 feature release. Hurray!

Second, over the last two weeks we've put our open positions on LinkedIn, our website, and Gamasutra.com. Since then we've gotten hundreds of applications for our open positions. No joke. We got so many that last week I was forced to set up a new JIRA Project just to track the candidates as they move through the hiring process. That's helped me cull down the list, but even with that, we've still got about 50, very qualified candidates. I'm really enjoying reading through the resumes and looking forward to having a fully built team. And let me say, we've got some real talent applying. If you haven't received an email me from me yet, and you submitted a resume via one of those channels in the last week or so, you should be receiving an email this week.

Finally, per our update last week, yesterday the 'Early Access' forum was made available on our forums. It's in a new forum category named 'Exclusive Access'. Within it, we've posted our introduction, NDA, and the link to our first exclusive video for people with Alpha 1 access. So far the feedback on the little video has been very positive. In the future, we'll record a similar video for everyone else. One that's a bit more polished and shows more of New Haven and Silver Run.

Character Art

Two weeks ago in the Update titled 'Plenty of eye candy...' we shared videos of some of the work happening on armor customization. This week, we wanted to share some video on clothing customization. In the following video, taken in ZBrush, you can see the character swapping in/out different shirt and sleeve combinations.

Figure 2 - Video showcasing different shirt configurations

Any tailor with sufficient skill can make any component of the shirt and either craft it whole, or add it to an existing shirt to change its appearance. I can't wait to show you all what this system can do with different materials. But, that'll have to wait for another week.

The other thing the Character Artists has been working on is the female. Per an earlier update, we try not to work on something until it's necessary to solve the next set of problems. With us diving heavily into families and character creation, it's time for us to address the female.

This week, one of our artists has been working on the sets of models necessary to add the female to the world. The way our character system works is by taking different meshes associated with body fat and lean muscle and blending them together.

In the second A-pose in the image below you can see what the female looks like with 0% body fat and 0% muscle. In the third A-pose, you can see what the female looks like with 100% lean muscle and %0 body fat. In the fourth and final A-pose, you can see the female with 0% lean muscle and 100% body fat.

In reality, characters will very rarely be 0% or 100% of either, and will instead be a combination of the two. The female in the first A-pose is an example of one with both fat and lean muscle.

Female render models Figure 3 - Different female models used in body dynamics

As an aside, these were based on extensive online research. But whatever you do, don't look at the recent search history of our character artist. It's... misleading.

Design

Well, with all of that aside, it's finally time to see how deep the rabbit hole really goes. And it goes really deep. If you get started and decide it's getting too dark, too damp, or too smelly, just jump to the conclusion at the bottom for the... conclusions.

A few weeks back we made it known that the day/night cycle was shifting and that to slow down the game a bit and make decisions and experiences more meaningful, we changed seasons from one day to an average of four days per season. This naturally raised the question, 'If seasons are changing, does it make sense to adjust the passage of time in Elyria as well?' Previously, we had one Elyrian Year equal to four real-life days. But is that the ideal number?

While there's nothing inherently wrong with four real-life days being equal to 1 Elyrian Year, it does create some secondary problems. One of the main ones is the fact that when your character dies, possibly at over 100 years old, you've already got children, grandchildren, and perhaps even great-grandchildren. This exacerbated the need to give players a consistent amount of play time with each lifetime.

Based on the older model we had, if you were to live to 100 years old and then take over as your child (which you had at 15) they'd already be in their 80's, and your grand-children would be in their 60's. Since we'd said that an Elyrian lives an average of 92 years, having your character start in their 80's or even 60's would make for a really short lifespan. Meanwhile, starting as your great grandchild creates a huge gap between your current character and your next character, concerning lineage. What if your NPC parents and grandparents are power hungry and want the title for themselves?!

To mitigate this, the most recent changes we'd made was to pull your heir out of the timeline and put them in some kind of stasis so that after your death you could re-enter the world as your 15-year-old child-heir.

But now you're a 90-year-old with a 15-year-old invisible child. Furthermore, once you assume the role of your child you've got siblings that are like five times your age. While it's a fair solution, it feels awkward and unnatural. What we'd really like is a solution that lets you move more strategically from one generation to another.

So, faced with the question of whether we want to stay with 4-day years, or move to something else, we realized this gives us the opportunity, by lengthening the timeline a bit, to come up with a better solution. However, as you'll soon see, messing with the length of an Elyrian year is a complicated effort, with multiple things to consider.

So what did we do? We went back to the drawing board. Literally. We made a list of a few core rules which we weren't willing to break, and then we set to work once again, describing the perfect play experience for aging, families, etc. Here were the core rules:

  1. Players must get 10-14 months of play time (with no deaths) per lifetime.
  2. Any solution we go with must allow me to keep playing my same soul in each lifetime.
  3. Having children must have constraints.

After we'd defined those we came up with the following list of statements representing our 'ideal play experience.'

  • I get to live my max age and die younger if I want
  • I get to pick which child is my heir
  • I get to raise my children and see them grow and develop
  • I get to use or share my children with my friends as I see fit. (Ok. I know how that sounds.)
  • I can have multiple heirs.
  • I get to set the visual appearance of my children which are NPCs at the time of 'conception'.
  • Children set aside for friends are customized by my friends.
  • Once I marry off my children, they are no longer mine to control. (Yep. Also sounds bad.)

Each of those are statements based on what we felt was the richest, most rewarding player experience. Note that these weren't listed in any particular order. But now that we've got them, let's keep them in mind while we dig into the question of whether or not we want to change the length of an Elyrian year.

An Elyrian Year

To help us decide whether or not we wanted to change from 4 days per Elyrian year to something else, we began by making a list of a couple of good, logical options, and then evaluating what it did to the maximum lifespans. In particular, we looked at multiples of 4, since that's now the average length of a season, as well as multiples of 7, as that's the duration of a week. In the end, and for the purpose of this update, we settled on the number 7. Seven real-life days per Elyrian Year.

The decision wasn't an easy one to make. For the rest of the update I'm going to try and follow a format of listing the pros and cons for a decision, and then digging deeper into them. With each decision and pro/con, which may or may not be a bulleted list, we'll go further and further down the rabbit hole.

To get us started off, here's the list of pros and cons we considered when deciding to change the length of an Elyrian year to seven real-world days.

Pros:

  • Fewer cumulative years pass during a lifetime which leads to fewer generations and a more natural transition between lives.
  • 7 day years aligns nicely with the new day/night cycle, which resets weekly to allow for a consistent schedule of events.
  • It makes counting off years easier, as each Elyrian year ticks by at the start of a new calendar week.

Cons:

  • Longer years means it takes longer for children to come of age.

Let's take a look at the pros and cons in more depth, starting with the con.

Longer years and coming of age

If you look back at the list of ideal scenarios, you'll see: 'I get to raise my children and see them grow and develop.' One of the main reasons for having children in CoE is to become attached to them, to create a future you can look forward to, and to watch them grow and develop, teaching them the skills you want to use in the next life. These are crucial as they make the loss of your current character seem less like a punishment and more like a natural transition. You mourn the loss of your current character as you eagerly move into the child you've nurtured for so long.

But it's virtually impossible to become attached to invisible children who just pop into the world at age 15. It's even more challenging, if not impossible, to get attached to children who pop into existence at age 15 if that means their birth date pre-dated your interest or capability to have children.

So when deciding what our ideal scenario was, we decided to back up our previous design choice and bring children back into the game. That is, they're no longer invisible stasis children, but NPCs in the world. Beginning as babies in a crib, you'll have the opportunity to see them grow and develop as NPCs for the first 15 years of their life. But that means they don't exist until you conceive them.

Here's the problem. If we can't take over as our child until they're 15 years old, then with seven days per year, those 15 years take 15 weeks! That's over three months! The chances of you having a child which is not yet old enough to inherit are relatively high if you wait until your 30's to have children.

As an example, let's say you have the financial stability and a place to raise your children by the time your character is 35 years old. Your child won't be old enough to be your heir and inherit your title until he/she is 15. By that time, you're 50 years old. That means you've already been playing 35 weeks. That's roughly eight months. Given the Death Penalty mechanic, if you play a more adventurous character, frequently die, etc., it's entirely possible your character will die before your child is old enough to replace you.

How do we solve such a problem? Let's go further down the rabbit hole.

Non-Traditional Characters (NTCs)

The answer to the child not-yet-ready for inheritance lies in Non-Traditional Characters. For those new to this concept, NTCs are NPCs which have been 'inhabited' by a player. Put differently, imagine there's a 35-year-old NPC in the world. He has an established career, and he's got a family, land, some wealth, etc. Now imagine someone goes to the character creation screen and instead of selecting a family to join, they choose an NPC to inhabit. They become that 35-year-old NPC. That's an NTC.

After becoming that NPC, they get the NPC's land, wealth, family, etc. But in exchange, they lose any and all customization - including the character's name and appearance. This could be undesirable in many cases. But when the NPC you're planning to inhabit is one of your children or a nearby relative, it's no longer an issue.

NTCs are something we've had from the very beginning, but we limited them to something you could do in Exposition due to several problems we'll discuss in more depth below. The question is, how did we land on NTCs as a solution?

We went back and forth, talking about regents and who would be the best character to take over your title and estate in the event your child was too young to assume the role. We considered allowing you to extend the life of your character at a cost against your child's maximum lifespan. We even considered creating some random NPC you could control as a temporary regent. But in all cases, nothing truly made sense and fit in with the rest of the world. That is until we thought back to our own world.

On Earth, what happens if the Prince is too young to be the king? Someone else in the family takes over until the child is ready. That's a valid solution in our world, but in CoE, the temporary nature of the regent causes problems with internal consistency. It also violates our rule above, requiring any solution allow us to keep playing our soul from one lifetime to another.

But... if we make it permanent, that is, if we make it so the other, older character becomes the new heir rather than the child, it works perfectly. Logically it makes sense as well. Let's say there's a line of succession. If the first in the line is too young, then naturally the second in line would succeed.

What this means is, there is a set of NPCs - your children, nephews, siblings, etc., all of varying ages, all of which who are possible heirs. At any given time you can appoint one of them who is over 15 years old to be your heir.

If you die, you can choose to take over as your heir, regardless of their age.

Let's list the pros and cons, and then yes, we'll go further down the rabbit hole.

Pros:

  • You most likely always have someone you can move your soul to
  • It builds a tighter bond between players in the same dynasty, as relatives can be reserved for backup heirs
  • No need for stasis heirs. Children can remain and grow in the world

Cons/Challenges:

  • Ensuring maximum lifespan
  • Ever-increasing lifespan
  • Need to be able to discover NTC choices within your dynasty
  • Need some way to control how you can join your family
  • NPC marriages
  • More options means people can stay in influential roles longer

Ensuring maximum lifespan

The first, and perhaps oldest real design challenge we've faced in the development of CoE is ensuring a maximum lifespan when you move on to an heir who is over 15 years old.

The thing is, we were focused too heavily on the highest lifespan of an Elyrian, rather than ensuring maximum playtime. This subtle shift in mentality enables us to go back to having heirs in a way that makes sense.

Instead of saying Elyrians always live 75 - 105 years, we simply say players always get between 40 and 60 weeks (Elyrian years) of play time. This means that no matter when you take over a character, you're guaranteed to get the same amount of play time as someone else, barring any deaths.

So as an example, you create a character that begins at age 15 and lives for the average 52 years (now that we have 52 rather than 90 years in one real-world year). At death, your character is 67 Elyrian Years old, but you have a child which you had when you were 25.

At the time of your character's death, your child is 42. Under the older model, you wouldn't want to take over as your 42-year-old child because you'd be losing 27 years of game time (42 - 15). But in the new model, this isn't a problem. Not only have you watched your child grow from a baby to a strong, powerful 42-year-old, but you're guaranteed that deaths aside, you'll get to play them for the full length of their life. In this case, your child lives the average 52 years as well and passes away at 94. But this too creates problems. Time to dig deeper.

Ever-increasing lifespan

This system works really great. However, it does create one problem. What happens when your 94-year-old has a child at 15? He's now 79. Since we guarantee you'll get a full lifetime, it would mean your next character would live to an average of 131. This process continues. With each life, your maximum age grows without bounds. How do we solve this?

We simply put a cap on the maximum age in which characters can be inhabited as an NTC. Right now we're looking at a cap of 52. This coincidentally allows you to, at most, double the life of a character, it carries over exactly one real-life year, and it represents roughly the previous maximum age we had of 105 Elyrian Years (2 * 52 = 104). How fortuitous. We've changed the Elyrian Year from 4 days to 7, reduced the generational gap, and preserved the maximum lifespan of an Elyrian in the process. Damn that feels good.

So now we've firmly established NTCs as a viable alternative to a traditional heir. If your heir is old enough, great. If not, you simply make some other NPC in your family that is old enough the heir, then take over them instead. But this creates yet another problem. Down we go again...

Need to be able to discover NTC choices within your dynasty

Once we've established that you can pass on inheritance and land to anyone in your family, it raises the question of how. It also raises the question of how you discover which family members are viable candidates to be your heir. This requires the introduction of some new views during character creation, as well as changes to the dynasty view.

First, we're going to be adding new NTC options to character creation. In addition to picking a family based on a set of filter criteria through your personal story, you'll now have the option to filter and select an NPC to become.

Also, we'll be adding a new view to family selection which allows you to see every dynasty you've previously been a part of. From there, you can choose to put your soul in any inhabitable NPC within one of your previous dynasties - unless you willingly or forcibly were disowned.

Aside from changes to character creation, we're also going to be making changes to the dynasty view. In this view, you'll be able to see all NPCs who are of age to become your heir, and who are unlocked for player characters.

But what do I mean by 'unlocked for player characters?' Yep. Further down the rabbit hole we go.

Controlling who can be in your family

In any dynasty, you're going to have parents, grandparents, siblings, and children, as well as aunts/uncles, cousins, great uncles/aunts, etc.

At any point in time, those roles are going to be filled by either players or NPCs. If they're held by players, there're no problems. But if they're NPCs, it raises questions about who can become those NPCs as Non-Traditional Characters (NTCs).

To make that easier, we've created a set of ground rules, as well as adding the ability to 'lock' the NPCs within your family. The basic rules look like this:

If you join a family, and it has only NPC parents, the parents automatically become locked. This prevents you from having other players come in as your parents after-the-fact and make your life difficult. That said, if you examine your family/dynasty screens you'll see NPC codes for each of your NPC parents. This gives you the ability to become your own parent, or invite friends to become your parents.

In addition, so long as you don't have any PC parents, you can see the NPC codes for all NPC siblings. Furthermore, you can see the NPC codes for any nieces/nephews you have that do not have any PC parents. It's important to note here, you don't have the capability to lock your siblings, nieces, nephews or cousins, but you can see their NPC codes. This prevents you from preventing NTCs from joining your family, but it does give you the ability to invite those people into your family who you want to be there.

Finally, you can lock any children or grandchildren you have that are not children of another player. This gives you the ability to always create a chain of inheritance. It's important to note also that if you lock one of your children, their entire lineage becomes locked. The same is true for all your descendants. Once you lock them, all of their descendants automatically lock.

Ok. That really needs a diagram. Truth be told, it sounds far more complicated than it is. Early attempts at a UI in some prototyping tools has shown that it's very easy to communicate which family members are locked and which aren't, as well as making the view responsive to toggling NPCs locked and unlocked.

For the time being, just take our word for it. It's a new system that guarantees you mostly don't have unwanted people in your family, while giving you the option to spread out and grow a larger dynasty.

Phew. Ok. So we've got NTCs back, you've got a maximum amount of play time, and you can make any NTC in your dynasty your heir. We're good right? Wrong. What happens if all the NPCs in your dynasty get married?

NPC Marriages

One of the bigger problems we faced the last time we explored NTCs after launch was NPC marriage. We'd made it pretty clear that Marriage in Chronicles of Elyria was meant to be between a player and a player. No marrying NPCs.

Well, it's time for us to become more progressive (though we're still not encouraging waifus). Most of the stuff we've talked about above is about opening up your options to becoming another member of your family. But as those family members are NPCs, it's entirely likely they're going to marry and possibly even have children. That's a good thing! But if we disallow marrying NPCs, then we have to limit becoming an NTC to only NPCs that haven't married. That's not a great plan if your goal in picking the new heir is to establish your lineage. Ideally, your heir already has an heir.

In any event, rather than fight the establishment, we're giving in. So going forward, it will be possible to marry NPCs. It'll use the same fame/reputation system that's already in place, combined with some new mechanics, such as giving/receiving gifts, etc. It'll take time, but you can eventually convince that serving girl/guy you've had your eye on to be your lawfully wedded child-code generator. And before you ask, if you do happen to become an NTC that’s already married, don’t worry, you can lock your spouse like you lock your children, ensuring that NPC never gets replaced by another player you didn’t plan for.

With all that said, we also want marriage between players to continue to mean something. As a result, we're looking into ways to augment and add value to the relationship between two characters that have souls. One thing we've got talked about is a new mechanic we're calling Soul Binding. Players can go a step further than marriage, binding their souls to one another. Such a ceremony would be permanent, and the longer two people who are soul bound remain near one another, the tighter the bond.

This bond between them could have lasting effects, such as gradually making it so spirit loss is shared between them. Not only does this mean those adventurous types would do well to have a loving wife at home to live for, but it means real-life spouses would more likely end up with characters that pass away at the same time.

Ok... the light is showing at the end of the tunnel. But there's one more thing we have to cover before bringing this massive update to a close.

More choices means people can stay in influential roles longer

Let's say you're the King and you're killed, but you made your younger brother, a Duke, the heir to the kingdom. He's an NPC which you have the NPC code for. A few weeks go by and someone kills him as well, but before that happens, your nephew (the son of your previous character) reaches the age of maturity and so is now old enough to take over the Kingdom. So you've made him your heir, and now you take over as your nephew.

See the problem? With the ability to jump between NPCs in your family as an NTC, your staying power within a dynasty is significantly higher. That's a good thing - if you're an active contributing player. If you're not, it can leave a lazy, non-involved ruler in the family too long. So how did we solve this problem? Story Points!

It has always been our plan that Story Points were used to improve your lot in life. Work hard in your previous life, and like karma, you'll be rewarded in the next. This gives us a perfect opportunity to put Story Points in play.

Let's say you're a Count. You play actively, are good to your people, but are still assassinated for one reason or another four months after creating your character. Fortunately for you, you've racked up enough Story Points that you can play a character who is heir to a County - including your own heir. So you do.

But on the other hand, let's say you're inactive, you don't play much, or you just sit in your keep all day, drinking wine and eating mutton. When you're assassinated, you'd want to use your Story Points to take over your heir... but you can't. You lack sufficient Story Points to do so, and best you can do is take a demotion, keeping your role as Mayor or Baron, creating a power vacuum for your Count title, and making room for others.

To confirm what I'm saying, all heirs, under the new model, as well as NTCs, will require Story Points to continue playing, even if it’s zero. However, the amount of Story Points required to keep playing your heir will be easily achieved over about three months of play - the length of time for your spawn to grow up if you're actively playing. In general, this won't have an impact on most people. But it does mean that those in positions of power must be playing, or they risk losing their titles.

Conclusion

Ok. If you made it this far you're either a masochist, or took the TL; DR route. In either case, there was so much covered in this update that it's important to quickly recap. So here's the bulleted list of changes that accompany this update.

  • One Elyrian Year is now seven days instead of four
  • Children are now present in the world from birth to death, living as NPCs until either you, a friend or a stranger you've given permission, chooses to take control of them.
  • A new screen is being added to character creation to allow you to select an NTC instead of a Ward or a Family
  • A new screen is being added to character creation to allow you to select a member of your dynasty as your next character
  • The family/dynasty view is being updated to allow you to lock children and grandchildren, as well as see the NPC code of any NPCs in your family which have not been locked by other family members
  • NPC marriage is being added to the game, along with mechanics to woo your chosen
  • If you take over a married NTC, you can lock their spouse, preventing them from being similarly taken over by a player
  • New mechanics are being added to player-to-player marriage to make them more valuable than player-NPC marriage
  • All characters you create will require some amount of story points, even if that's zero. The more famous/powerful the character you want to create/take control of, the more Story Points they'll require

That's all folks. Until next time...

Discuss

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dada - 1 year ago

I'm for everything, what fosters roleplay!

But i would like to know, how exactly these story points would be earned. Sounds a bit like questrewards or so. I once thought about similar mechanics, subscription based tho, where the player spent points for rebirth related to situation, status, traits of the souls new char. Those points would be earned by playing the chars role, here defined by different factors, but especially by psychological traits (some sort of big-5 model). Those traits would also effect ai behaviour of npc, opc and even played PC. (idea was about a semi- / indirect- control - kind of "inner-world" management / desicion based and so on)

Points would also be earned by a chosen "goal"-path, participation (roles!) in events, reputation for good roleplay (likes? :/) Whole purpose was a high "actual roleplay" focus.

What i want so say; Some sort of "psychological" feature would be very cool!

Fenrer - 1 year ago

Days go by a bit fast for a roleplayer - 6 hour sessions not that rare, typing and waiting for reply is slow, so will hardly get anything done during one ingame day.

But I still love the rest. Finally some meat on the bones for female characters, fat and muscles.

Love the clothing customisation too.

Azmodeth - 1 year ago

so 27 minutes = 1 day ingame....

Azmodeth - 1 year ago

This was a great read. Good work on selecting 7 days ! That's perfect for 1 year IMO.

Penumbra - 1 year ago

That's great! Thank you for explaining is such detail!

Pandorra - 1 year ago

Why not just give the players the ability to turn aging on/off for heirs? Your thinking game mechanics but on the other end you have intelligent (or reasonably intelligent) players. Say you raise the child, teach him your skills/send him to school, get all cozy with him then turn him off (or keep him on). He/She can wander around and talk maybe be a presence, but not actually be up-gradable while aging is turned off. Shrug .. or if you want story content then apprentice him to someone for a particular skill-set and then he doesn't finish that training or come back until its time for you to die naturally, on your deathbed or after your death to inherit. (The last is more realistic as I may not want to be a farmer/trapper/cook for every life ... maybe I want to better my progeny to increase my chances in my next life..)

Your rabbit-hole shrinks and people get their heirs at exactly the age and skill/level they want them. All of the core values are intact and all of the ideal rules are also met. Players have more options (always a good idea, because you can't make everyone happy when the rules get rigid) and big ++ not so many things to fix/create to make the game playable and enjoyable.

Kondak - 1 year ago

Excellent stuff :)

KrazyPanda - 1 year ago

Thanks a million for the update guys! If you don't mind a suggestion I would like to ask for an update to the overview and gameplay tabs on the site to help make sure everyone has correct info? Just wanted to help and Thanks again!

Zorius - 1 year ago

I love it!

Meii - 1 year ago

Looks awesome. Can't wait to actually get my hands on it to play it though!

Isaacaius - 1 year ago

Great update and Chronicles of Elyria is the most anticipated game on my list. I have high expectations that bring me back to the golden days of Everquest, Horizons, and Starwars Galaxies.

NCPBullet - 1 year ago

Holy crap snacks thats a bit to consume. Excited for this game.

supersonic - 1 year ago

Do we have a potential season for release?

FenixFireSage - 1 year ago

The key problem with Story Points is with the following statement. "You lack sufficient Story Points to do so, and best you can do is take a demotion, keeping your role as Mayor or Baron, creating a power vacuum for your Count title, and making room for others."

If you take over an NPC Count when missing a few required story points it should not mean that the title magically ceases to exist. A better explanation is that the NPC became deathly ill during the process of possession and passed the title to another family member. When the possession is complete the new NPC Count then grants you the lands and charter required to be a Mayor. The new Mayor character can pledge service to his Duke to become a Knight/Baron and must now earn the right to be named the heir to the NPC Count in a similar manner that most new characters must earn their inheritance.

You may also instead earn enough points during the life of the Mayor/Baron character to take possession of the NPC Count with another soul or take possession with the original soul in its next life.

In any case all the family Titles and properties remain at all times with the family and you can take possession of most of them. The only problem may be if another player takes control of an "Open" member of the family and tries to take the title. The best option would be to take possession of the open bloodlines parent (if possible) and close the bloodline.

Leon_Trotsky - 1 year ago

So lets assume that i am a true capitalist blacksmith manufactory with the highest blacksmith skill and lots of land and workers. Does that mean that I will have a problem if my heir inherits it with not black smith skill?

Also can a person from extended family outside of the heirs inherit the throne, such as make a claim to the throne? that would be cool:)

FenixFireSage - 1 year ago
@Leon_Trotsky:

All families have particular skills which they pass on at least some familiarity to their descendants. When in the character creation screen it should show each family members skills (which would then be enhanced by the soul's skills). So an NPC heir might drive the family business to bankruptcy because their skill is not as high as their sibling (who should have been chosen heir instead). However, you could then possess them and they would then turn the business around with the knowledge of their predecessor. You could also possess the sibling or a child and then earn control of the business.

Fergus Redbeard - 1 year ago

"We" are not in agreement.

I like the requirement of story points.

An inactive player that stopped playing three months ago or someone that is barely on should not automatically inherit the title.

At some point they should have earned it. Maybe it doesn't require much, but it should require something.

Lokon - 1 year ago

As others have said, I feel that an Heir shouldn't require story points to take over. It should be a no cost alternative that you might not even immediatly use.

Lets say there is a Mayor, and he's got this town right? He is loved by his townspeople, and a plenty active player. But then, he is assinated by a Political rival who wants to take his town and other lands. He is understandably wary of this, due to not being a total idiot. He has his Heir ready, but for whatever reason doesn't have enough Story Points to take the Heir over. Suddenly that Mayor can't govern his town, and has to make an appeal to his Count, Duke, or the King to get his land back, or organize a revolution.

While that sounds moderately interesting from a story telling perspective, that sounds like total shit from a gameplay perspective. Imagine having to go through that once a year because you don't tend to generate Story Points just by daily governing.

Going back to my previous example, I can sit in my Manor and Govern everything properly, but will that give me what I need to take my heir? Am I going to be blocked by some random wall just because I didn't farm something properly? To me the obvious solution is Heirs not costing anything. Someone thinks they would be better than the current Governor? Then they should organise a Cassus Belli and take it. This is how you had the mechanic in the past, how we liked it, and what we want it to go back to.

Amira - 1 year ago

cant wait to start testing this!

Ninja_manII - 1 year ago

So how does it work if you happen to not be part of a family and die die? Does your soul transfer to someone like any other soul would, you just don't have that body waiting for you like in a family? I'm guessing the only downside is that you will loss all the materialistic things you gathered.

So if you would loss all your materialistic things when you die permanently, could you hide all your equipment and valuables in some safe underground, and then try and find it in the next life like a treasure map?

FenixFireSage - 1 year ago
@Ninja_manII:

You can take possession of any past family members as long as you have access to their NPC codes. If the all the closed family members die, you can still take over one of the open members if you have their code. As long as you have access to any of the family codes you can regain access to your items legally. Otherwise you may have to steal your items back.

Red_Reaper - 1 year ago

I love, what your doing with the game so far. I've been so addicted the concepts of this game that I've been just devouring your Dev blogs and anything I can get my hands on in youtube. Can't wait for the release date, best of luck!

Sev - 1 year ago

Holy hell this design sounds far too complicated, interesting and cool, but I think there's going to be a lot of things breaking.

NoNameedd - 1 year ago

Player-NPC marriage. So there it begins, huh?

Zoroaster - 1 year ago

I like this approach. Although it may upset some min/maxers who always want to play their kid, and always want to play their kid at 15 so that they can be a super young super hero all the time, it ultimately feeds more into the RPG aspect.

How?

Your story changes as you pass from one heir to another. As long as you can willfully select a younger heir should your playstyle be ill fitted towards assuming the mantle of an older individual who may be better off administering than wandering the woods bashing on nasties, it should work well.

Adam540 - 1 year ago

I can't read blog posts on mobile. The text continues off the screen and there is no way to view it. Also I can't see my whole comment. Fix the site?

Arithmagician - 1 year ago
@Adam540:

Posted By Adam540 at 3:42 AM - Thu Aug 18 2016

I can't read blog posts on mobile. The text continues off the screen and there is no way to view it. Also I can't see my whole comment. Fix the site?

I have the same problem too, with text and screenshots getting out of view. Temporarily fix it with screen rotation, view browser on landscape mode.

Skrachfays - 1 year ago

On the loner topic (and this could apply to others too), if you bury a stash for a future heir, would it be possible for someone else to find and benefit from it?

Sharielane - 1 year ago
@Skrachfays:

Yes, from what I've heard.

Chronicles_of_P2W - 1 year ago
@Skrachfays:

Posted By Skrachfays at 10:23 AM - Mon Aug 15 2016

On the loner topic (and this could apply to others too), if you bury a stash for a future heir, would it be possible for someone else to find and benefit from it?

Yes this would also be an interesting question. :)

Chronicles_of_P2W - 1 year ago

I have one question, and I apologize if it was explained somewhere already and i missed it. I kind of just skimmed through some longer parts of text. :)

So, what I wonder is what (possibly) happens with players who will chose to live in the wild as lone wolves, with no friends and no families?

They age, they are about to die but they had no children and due to nature of their lives no friends also, and thus they have no one who can continue their soul.

Is their soul sentenced to die and their only option will be to buy a new account and start from scratch?

Of course people will now say that majority of players will surely not have this problem but what about those few that might have it?

I'm also not saying I'm one of those. :)

Sharielane - 1 year ago
@Chronicles_of_P2W:

Gothix just because your lineage dies out it does not mean that your soul will. You will not have to start a new account from scratch, your soul will simply have to choose a new family (and thus lineage) to be born into when they it's time to re-enter the world, that is all.

As to your belongings, titles, and any land that you may own, that is another story. With objects you could do as Malais suggested and hide them in caches for your next carnation to find.

As to this witch and blood magic idea. If you are willing enough to contract a witch to perform blood magic for a baby (which is likely impossible as magic, if it exists, will likely be super rare) then what is stopping you from simply contracting a NPC to have a baby with you? As far as I'm aware they haven't taken away the non-marriage NPC surrogacy/sperm donor option away.

Chronicles_of_P2W - 1 year ago
@Chronicles_of_P2W:

So I was thinking a bit more and I came up with one possible option.

Lets say that you live a loner life in forest, maybe criminal, maybe just a hermit, you know no one, or maybe no one wants you near. Maybe you are not even interested in sexual intercourse, and yet you wish child to have your genes.

There could be some witches (NPC) living in the forest. You could possible go seek a witch in her hut, and pay her to use blood magic to create you a child.

This could come at a hefty price (using blood magic always does!) but in this way you could get a heir even if you have been alone your whole life.

Malais - 1 year ago
@Chronicles_of_P2W:

Posted By Gothix at 7:12 PM - Sun Aug 14 2016

So I was thinking a bit more and I came up with one possible option.

Lets say that you live a loner life in forest, maybe criminal, maybe just a hermit, you know no one, or maybe no one wants you near. Maybe you are not even interested in sexual intercourse, and yet you wish child to have your genes.

There could be some witches (NPC) living in the forest. You could possible go seek a witch in her hut, and pay her to use blood magic to create you a child.

This could come at a hefty price (using blood magic always does!) but in this way you could get a heir even if you have been alone your whole life.

Since magic is a non-existent taboo I doubt blood magic would be an option.

Think it would be far more likely if you are literally against living near or with anyone you would simply bury your stuff or hide it in a cave and create a ward that looks like your former self.

Aeryn Suun - 1 year ago

thanks for the info, nothing on the store. Still looking to hire someone for that task?

Sharayah - 1 year ago

This is such a delightful post! Brilliant ideas all around! It gets rid of pretty much every notable quibble I had about the game.

As a lady of a stouter persuasion, I absolutely love the female models, especially the plumper one. It's rare to see a game properly displaying fat women, to put it mildly. It's going to be so awesome seeing a wide range of physical types around town, and far more interesting than a country full of nothing but physical perfection. That gets boring fast.

The NTC and NPC locking systems are amazing as well. It opens up a whole lot of possibilities, even beyond what you covered here. For instance, people who want to play homosexual/asexual characters (or just don't want to mess with child contracts and raising kids) now have a lot easier time staying within a bloodline. All you need is some NPC siblings producing nieces and nephews for you to take over when the time comes, and with NTCs they don't even have to be timed perfectly. If they could be customized and heir-locked like your personal children can be, you could even play pure homosexual/asexual/child-free with little penalty.

RemyM - 1 year ago

Brilliant ideas !!! This is exactly how I wanted this topic to be put in place. I'm so happy now. Thank you !!!

Sullen - 1 year ago

Did you read the new update from Caspian answering many of the recent questions created by the recent changes...

Link: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/10387/i-really-dont-like-this-change?page=8

Green_Rice - 1 year ago

So question: If you can't lock children with a PC spouse, how do you protect one or two kids as your own heirs? What if I have a kid or two towards the end of my character's "fertility," say 35. When they turn 15, I can't lock them because my spouse is also a player, but then a complete stranger inhabits them because they're visible on the Family Selection screen. Now I'm 50 and incapable of having more children, but my intended heirs are now beyond both my grasp and my spouse's. Seems to discourage the between-player marriages you originally wanted to have exclusively.

LordBronn - 1 year ago

Umm they are almost all old..... By our definition.

Ihathis - 1 year ago

@ironzerg With this most recent update, you'd actually spend less time in the elderly stage than with how it was before. As for taking over an heir right when they come of age, I'm not sure, though you could always go jump in the ocean and perm that character, letting your soul inhabit a new body.

@Benjemim They are currently shooting for December 2017 for release.

ironzerg - 1 year ago
@Ihathis:

Posted By Ihathis at 10:07 AM - Fri Aug 12 2016

@ironzerg With this most recent update, you'd actually spend less time in the elderly stage than with how it was before. As for taking over an heir right when they come of age, I'm not sure, though you could always go jump in the ocean and perm that character, letting your soul inhabit a new body.

There has to be a better answer, because this sort of sucks. Take the example from the post.

I start CoE as a young, healthy aspiring hero for 15. I live for the average of 52 years. If I meet the right partner, have kids and they start to grow up at age 25, I'm roughly 40 when they come of age at 15. But the problem is, I'm forced to "live" out the next 27 years (or 27 weeks) becoming an old man, instead of actually playing my heir.

Now, here's an even bigger problem. Over those 27 years, my heir is aging. He's now living the prime of his life as an NPC while I'm waiting to die. In other words, when I take over after my last character dies, he's now 42 years old, likely having the best years of his life already behind him.

Quoted from the dev journal...

>Not only have you watched your child grow from a baby to a strong, powerful 42-year-old,

What? Holy crap? I just "watched" my progeny become a strong, powerful 42-year-old. Wait? I don't want to watch my kids become strong and powerful. I want to BE my kid as he becomes strong and powerful. But wait, let's keep doing down the generations...

Say he had his next kid, or my grandson when he was 25.

So as an example, you create a character that begins at age 15 and lives for the average 52 years (now that we have 52 rather than 90 years in one real-world year). At death, your character is 67 Elyrian Years old, but you have a child which you had when you were 25. But he lives to be 94. So now his kid, or my grandson...or my next life is now 77, which with the 52 age cap, I can't take over...so it's up to HIS son now? Or my grandson?

So then it becomes a situation where I'm just skipping generations. I'm watching my kids and grandkids get old and die, then starting my "next adventure" in the shoes of a body that's probably two, three or four generations removed from this last one.

That sort of sucks, in my mind. I don't get the opportunity to actually play generations of heroes. It just doesn't feel very good to me, and they need to work on that aspect.

I WANT to actively play my descendants, and I don't want to spent weeks and months at a time playing an old man. When you watch Lord of the Rings, you're not watching a bunch of middle-age or older people farting around. You're watching young, strong heroes, with few exceptions.

To me, this is an aspect they need to reconsider. It just doesn't feel right.

Benjemim - 1 year ago

I know its a game in development and all and still in the production phase but still I would like to know that is the game being released any time in near future or is it a really ,really, REALLY long wait ????

ironzerg - 1 year ago

Sorry if this was asked/answered earlier. But what if I don't want to keep playing old men?

Do I have the option to "switch" to my heir when he comes of age? For example, if I play along, do well, start a family, etc...but then my current character starts to get older, say 40-50+, but my son now comes of age at 16. To me, it just doesn't feel good to play an old man until the day he dies then...oh great, I get to pick up with another character who's already an old man.

Unless of course, I'm stuck with grandpa until my grandson or great grandson is of age, then I declare him my heir and start there. But that still means every other character I play is going to have to spend most of the time being old.

Just some thoughts...I just don't envision myself being a traveling hero, complete with a cane, diapers and a tray full of medication.

Benjifletcher - 1 year ago

coming along well, keep up the AMAZING job!

Mammarmiar - 1 year ago

really glad we finally get to see the female models. i personally really like them!! i'm glad they can be as diverse in body types as the males :)

Benjifletcher - 1 year ago
@Mammarmiar:

sure you like the female modes. ;) ;)

AstroPippin - 1 year ago

Kinda late to the party, I haven't been active here for a while (not that I ever was, still just a forum stalker o7 ). I'm really happy with this update, I didn't like the idea that heirs would be locked in stasis and would be weird time-travelers or something. I think it's brilliant how all the numbers lined up for the timing of things!

I remember a while ago I was trying to mod Skyrim so my hearthfire children could come hunt with me, but I couldn't get all the stuff to work. Anyway, I remember a while ago there was a reddit AMA I skimmed through and saw this:

SoulboundStudios: You will definitely be able to issue the NPC commands. However, NPCs in CoE have attitudes and personalities. Depending on the situation they may or may not listen to you. For example, you won't be able to just click and tell someone to "move here". It's more of a "hey, can you go to this location and await my next instruction?" To which they may respond with "Sure!" or it could be "I've got better things to do than sit and wait around." The better your frame and reputation with the NPC, the more likely they are to do as you ask.

Hoping/assuming the same will work for children. Teach them your craft as they grow up!

Sedilis - 1 year ago

Great to see a substantive update this week :)

I do have a couple of concerns...

First: "Beginning as babies in a crib, you'll have the opportunity to see them grow and develop as NPCs for the first 15 years of their life."

Please don't make that an onerous part of the game. Spending 3-4 real life months looking after a child sounds dreadful. If that was my idea of fun I'd have one irl.

Second: My first thought when reading the NTC section was 'that'll be a great way to get a spy or assassin close to anyone you want to do harm to. Not saying that necessarily bad. The Machiavellian potential of this game is one of the things that most interested me in it. But it does need balance.

Its going to be a bit unfair on Kings and Queens if an second a member of their court can be possessed with the sprite of an agent of their enemy; circumventing all their security.

Kaynadin - 1 year ago
@Sedilis:

Posted By Sedilis at 2:22 AM - Thu Aug 11 2016

Great to see a substantive update this week :)

I do have a couple of concerns...

First: "Beginning as babies in a crib, you'll have the opportunity to see them grow and develop as NPCs for the first 15 years of their life."

Please don't make that an onerous part of the game. Spending 3-4 real life months looking after a child sounds dreadful. If that was my idea of fun I'd have one irl.

Second: My first thought when reading the NTC section was 'that'll be a great way to get a spy or assassin close to anyone you want to do harm to. Not saying that necessarily bad. The Machiavellian potential of this game is one of the things that most interested me in it. But it does need balance.

Its going to be a bit unfair on Kings and Queens if an second a member of their court can be possessed with the sprite of an agent of their enemy; circumventing all their security.

Agreed. Also, this update makes it much easier to grief and cause real problems in having children. If you have to actually raise an heir you need someone to be home all the time or I assume the children die. So player A has an NPC wife or husband, they have a few kids, someone comes by and kills the NPC parent, now player A is forced to stay home for weeks or months to watch the kids or let them die and start over with the whole wooing process (which I assume will be difficult and costly with the gift buying and the like). It eliminates the ability for anyone to have solo play, and for anyone to have two adventuresome types marry.

McGregor - 1 year ago

This community seems very communicative and so is the staff, im stuck on BDO , nice game but turned P2W and zero communication with the staff, making money true there store is more important then server stability.....So this is probably my next mmo if it continue to flow like this, really bold and amazing work done in this.

Maulvorn - 1 year ago
@McGregor:

Posted By McGregor at 9:00 PM - Wed Aug 10 2016

This community seems very communicative and so is the staff, im stuck on BDO , nice game but turned P2W and zero communication with the staff, making money true there store is more important then server stability.....So this is probably my next mmo if it continue to flow like this, really bold and amazing work done in this.

I agree this is the most open dev team I have ever had the pleasure to follow.

Astrior - 1 year ago

This is awesome, and I love the female model a LOT, it's so unusual to see female models in games that look this realistic and/or have all their body parts obeying the laws of physics.

However, one question I have is if you die and your heir is 14 or something, only a little short of you being able to play as them, do you then have to move on to an NTC and play that NTC's entire lifetime before you can move on to the heir you actually wanted to play as?

Please correct me if I missed anything about this in the text, but I know I would feel a little hard done by if I had to spend a full lifetime playing a character I'm not as invested in. Would it maybe be possible to split the lifetime length, so you only have to inhabit the NTC for the week or so it takes for your heir to come of age, and then have that taken off the heirs lifetime, to even it out?

pcsantoro - 1 year ago

I love the changes. Getting even more excited if that's possible. I am really curious how the farmer roles will develop and everybody that depends on them, due to the seasons time frames.

Hellhawk - 1 year ago

Good changes. It all makes perfect sense.

Gromschlog - 1 year ago

can players take over any NPC they want? what are the rules for inheriting NPCs? or can i just inherit a 50 year old king which will increase his lifespan to 100 years? (and make me be king without pledging for it)

Scourge - 1 year ago

I am very impressed- you and your team seem to find the perfect answers to seemingly unapproachable problems. I did have two questions- 1- How big of a role does adoption have in the game? Must a child be related by blood, or can I adopt anyone with (or without) a dynasty. This could go as far as adoption of a newborn, particularly in a female-female partnership, where neither player wishes to lose physically active time while being pregnant- the mail would need to be added to around the 5 month mark, at the very least!
2- Going off of this, could an adult player be added to a dynasty without a marriage? For instance, a ward of the state becomes a war hero, or defeats the monster terrorizing a township. It is in this hero's interest to join a powerful family, and the family may want to be affiliated with this hero's name, gaining prestige.
I can see the need to limit this through marriage, to prevent a dynasty from growing over-night. Perhaps, however, it would cost story points to join dynasties, as it does to become a heir. In this way, it would be impossible for just anyone to join a dynasty. Just throwing some thoughts down; either way, I trust all of you at Soul Bound to make the right decisions, as you have since day one!

Lech - 1 year ago
@Scourge:

Currently, adoption of any kind (including the hero scenario) will not be added. Also those who wish to have same-sex relationships, will be able to "have" children through surrogate doners.

-MX.

pcsantoro - 1 year ago
@Scourge:

Good questions.

Karmine - 1 year ago

This is an exciting new direction to go with in CoE. I was wondering back when you decided to increase season length how that would increase year length.

That being said, it seems we will now have good years and bad years, if a season lasts an average of 4 days, then each year will only have two seasons in it at most. If you run off a four season system like much of the world above the tropics then the changing of years and the changing of seasons will be interesting. It will make for a unique calendar and an interesting way of discussing years and seasons in almanacs.

The Second concept I was curious about is if we lock the entire lineage of a child and then follow that lineage for three or four consecutive lives, are all the cousins of our current character still locked? A lock that locks the entire lineage would create a cone of locked NPCs into out family tree. Or would those locks only carry for a certain distance out? Or do they only hold true until you are reborn into your new character and have to relock the next set of heirs.

This is a little convoluted, so let me expound. If I have three children and lock the lineage of the first, then take over that child when he is 50, perhaps he already has 3 children of his own and they each have three. I now have 13 characters locked before I inhabit my first heir. In my second life I wouldn't need to lock the lineage of my new children because they are already locked from my previous life's locking out the entire lineage of my heir. Now my current character has 3 children locked, and their three children locked. If we carry on, with only three children each life, in my third life I have my two siblings, their three children each and my three children locked. Still no problem. In the next life however things get fuzzy, I have my two siblings, three children, two uncles, 6 cousins, and 18 first cousins once removed locked. The next generation down the number or locked characters expands even further.

Now I know you've probably already thought of this situation, I am simply curious how many generations down the does the lock of that entire lineage last, or is it just for the current character in play, and each subsequent character needs to lock their lineage.

Final question, how does the heir choice work for player to player marriages. Do you each have to lock out separate children? Or can the possible heir's be shared?

All in all this is an exciting development and I'm thrilled to see more in the future, and eventually see it in practice.

Thefates - 1 year ago

I love reading through your blogs and am hopeful that you can meet all of what you're doing. As an aspiring 3d animator in college right now it feels really good seeing what you've done already. Now that you're getting proper funding I can only hope that you continue to grow and prosper on your set course.

I like the new female models and armors shown in the gallery. Additionally the solution to the age conundrum could probably still use some work but is impressive none the less.

Falendor - 1 year ago

Awesome update, fixes soooooo many things i was worried about.
Keep these updates coming, im getting pumped like i was when reading the dev journals when they where first coming out!

Deftly - 1 year ago

Since we can marry npcs do we see what stats they have to make sure our offspring has the scores we want or will npc stats scores not matter?

Antelino - 1 year ago
@Deftly:

What stats are you talking about that would be inherited? As far as I know, there are no "stats" the way you seem to think. You don't train your str to lvl 10 to equip heavier army, you train to wear heavy armor and learn to fight in it.

Cave_N - 1 year ago

Two gripes:

  1. I kinda hope he wasn't one of the people responsible for the UI/HUD within Tera's game-client. Just google "Tera UI fps"... you'll get the idea really quickly... (I don't mean to be rude, I loved that game. I uninstalled it due to fps issues in higher-level multiplayer instances. So it hits a little close to home.)

  2. Could we make the shoulders a little narrower on the female models? They look a little too masculine atm. The general rule is; Men are more shoulders, women are hips & thighs (This is why manly men walk swinging their shoulders more and why womanly women walk swinging their hips more. To express their genders ideal figure -- there are several documentaries about this).

As for the rest:

Keep up the good work!

Sharielane - 1 year ago
@Cave_N:

The shoulders are pretty spot on in my opinion. I have shoulders just like that, and I am female, so do many of my female friends and family members. If you look at the ratio of those shoulders to those hips you'd see that the shoulders aren't all that wide at all.

Yes men tend to have wider shoulders, but they also have narrower hips that adds to that appearance.

Iledrith - 1 year ago
@Cave_N:

To my understanding, character customization will include body sliders. The models above are just a few examples of fat/muscle composition; the overall body shape will vary from character to character.

I don't think the models have broad shoulders (they look quite average), but many women do, and I'm glad there will be some body diversity. The real world isn't split into "manly men" and "womanly women," and neither should a game as committed to immersion as CoE.

Cave_N - 1 year ago
@Iledrith:

Sliders are good. ^_^

As far as the shoulder thing; It seems to me, the skeletal structure of the women's shoulders are too wide. It could just be me. It could just be the angle. I don't know. They seem only the slightest bit off - perhaps by an inch on each side if the model is somewhere between 5 & 6 feet tall. But I'm looking at the hip to shoulder ratio (clavicle & pelvis), not the overall (meat & fat). As far as the stuff covering the skeleton; that all looks like it stacked on well! Very realistic indeed.

As far as the real world? Well, there are only really 4 basic body-types for women. I suppose the body-types of the woman in the image is covered by one of those types...

Smallz - 1 year ago

Nice job!

Emeelee - 1 year ago

New title for this post : "How to eliminate all real female players"

Emeelee - 1 year ago
@Emeelee:

The purpose was the gameplay, only the gameplay.

The mechanics developped is well thought and is a true piece of human engineering. But it NTC/NPC-ed the female gameplay !

A player could embody a whole dynasty/familly with NPCs/NTCs without any interaction with another player. No interaction in a MMO ! Even the spouses of the NPCs could be "locked".

We could imagine the funny gameplay ; managing a large familly through ages and years. Be an italian "mama" or a machiavelic Medicis mother... ruling familly business through some discreet arcanes, and so on. We are not all into riding a brainless ursaphant to battle.

VictoriaRachel - 1 year ago
@Emeelee:

Posted By Emeelee at 11:26 AM - Wed Aug 10 2016

The purpose was the gameplay, only the gameplay.

The mechanics developped is well thought and is a true piece of human engineering. But it NTC/NPC-ed the female gameplay !

A player could embody a whole dynasty/familly with NPCs/NTCs without any interaction with another player. No interaction in a MMO ! Even the spouses of the NPCs could be "locked".

We could imagine the funny gameplay ; managing a large familly through ages and years. Be an italian "mama" or a machiavelic Medicis mother... ruling familly business through some discreet arcanes, and so on. We are not all into riding a brainless ursaphant to battle.

I think that what you are talking about can work either way. You could embody a whole dynast/family with out interacting with other players (though you would have loose a lot of the benefits the family and marriage systems use to reward playing with others). However, you could do this as either a female or male player.

There are a lot of us that do not want to take on combat roles, be that crafting, gathering, political. All of those are equally possible what ever the sex of your character. Just as going into combat is equally possible for either sex. So while I agree there is not a 'need' to involve other players, I can not link that to their sex, or to what we will actually see in game when the benefit of playing with others is realised.

Maulvorn - 1 year ago
@Emeelee:

Posted By Emeelee at 11:26 AM - Wed Aug 10 2016

The purpose was the gameplay, only the gameplay.

The mechanics developped is well thought and is a true piece of human engineering. But it NTC/NPC-ed the female gameplay !

A player could embody a whole dynasty/familly with NPCs/NTCs without any interaction with another player. No interaction in a MMO ! Even the spouses of the NPCs could be "locked".

We could imagine the funny gameplay ; managing a large familly through ages and years. Be an italian "mama" or a machiavelic Medicis mother... ruling familly business through some discreet arcanes, and so on. We are not all into riding a brainless ursaphant to battle.

There will be players that will play females.

Moonlynx - 1 year ago
@Emeelee:

Posted By Emeelee at 11:58 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

New title for this post : "How to eliminate all real female players"

First of all, don't dare presume you speak for every real female player. I saw nothing in there that would eliminate a real female player. Unless you are referring to having normal portioned bodysize, that's very needed. A real female wouldn't want boobs twice the size of her head...each one. rolls her eyes at that image one player posted.

Crysnia - 1 year ago
@Emeelee:

Posted By Emeelee at 11:58 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

New title for this post : "How to eliminate all real female players"

Wth does that even mean?

New title for your post: "How to vaguely complain about something regarding female players and probably not even be a female anyway"

SuddenDelay - 1 year ago
@Crysnia:

New title for this post: "How someone starts an inside joke/meme"

Aubriella - 1 year ago
@Emeelee:

Posted By Emeelee at 5:58 PM - Tue Aug 09 2016

New title for this post : "How to eliminate all real female players"

No... we're still here. And real :)

Maulvorn - 1 year ago
@Aubriella:

Posted By Aubriella at 7:52 PM - Tue Aug 09 2016

Posted By Emeelee at 5:58 PM - Tue Aug 09 2016

New title for this post : "How to eliminate all real female players"

No... we're still here. And real :)

I am defo giving a penny to this bard.

Aubriella - 1 year ago
@Emeelee:

Posted By Emeelee at 5:58 PM - Tue Aug 09 2016

New title for this post : "How to eliminate all real female players"

No... we're still here. And real :)

Stealthwire - 1 year ago
@Emeelee:

Posted By Emeelee at 12:58 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

New title for this post : "How to eliminate all real female players"

I cringed so hard at the multiple uses of "the female" but the rest of the post was like Christmas Day so it's hard to complain

Karmine - 1 year ago
@Stealthwire:

I did at first too, then I realized it wasn't a reference to female players, just reference to a model. It's accurate, and I'm sure they refer the the pair as the male and the female.

Maulvorn - 1 year ago
@Stealthwire:

Posted By Stealth_wire at 6:13 PM - Tue Aug 09 2016

Posted By Emeelee at 12:58 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

New title for this post : "How to eliminate all real female players"

I cringed so hard at the multiple uses of "the female" but the rest of the post was like Christmas Day so it's hard to complain

I think "Emeelee" is hinting at the models, I am glad Caspian is doing the physicality system, it shows your characters muscle to fat ratio and overal neatness, like if you live in the woods a lot you would be more lean then if you lived in a mansion not doing much.

It allows for a diversity of body types, you want a thin body? work for it, same if you want a lot of muscle and bulkiness.

Maulvorn - 1 year ago
@Emeelee:

Posted By Emeelee at 5:58 PM - Tue Aug 09 2016

New title for this post : "How to eliminate all real female players"

Some explanation?

Kassarien - 1 year ago

Fantastic update! I can't wait to see what comes next!

Solistia - 1 year ago

I have a question as well, and my apologies if it was answered elsewhere.

Do you have to be married to have a child? Or can you enter into a contract with another player to bear your children or give you seed, then each player goes on their merry way, one with a child in tow?

I know you can contract for children to a married same-sex couple, but what about the single parent?

I would personally love to be able to contract out baby making with many PC fathers and be a strong independent woman with a large family in the game <3 (at least to start off)

Artificer - 1 year ago

The heir solution is excellent, I think once people begin playing they will see that it would be in their best interest to do a little family planning. They also might not necessarily inhabit their oldest child, if you played starting at age 15, with the 40-60 Elyrian year play time you would be looking at permadeath between the age of 55 and 75. If you knew your playstyle was on the riskier side and planned to die around age 55 you would want to have a 15 year or older child by age 55, so the latest you would want to have your first child is by age 40. If you have Child1 at age 25 and Child2 at age 35 you would designate your heir depending on whether you wanted to play Child1 from age 30 until Child1 dies between age 70 and 90, or Child_2 from age 20 until they die between the age of 60 and 80. If you prefer playing younger characters you would just need to plan to have an available heir or relative at the preferred starting age when your character reaches permadeath. If you like playing older characters you would just have to be aware of the age cap of 104 Elyrian years, or whatever the final decision is. It's not like people will stumble into this, the heir problem will only pop up after a year of playing, so people will have time to make their choices.

Hari Seldon - 1 year ago

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Brownian+Motion

Maulvorn - 1 year ago

Brownian?

Antelino - 1 year ago
@Maulvorn:

It means he tips his fedora at the thesaurus.

Hari Seldon - 1 year ago

My worry for SP is that it sounds all too much like Apple level content controls mixed with an aim to introduce a certain level of Brownian motion to the first levels of governance.

Antelino - 1 year ago
@Hari Seldon:

The pretension in this sentence made me nauseous.

Deftly - 1 year ago

What is you are not planning to have a huge dynasty and just a small family?

Antelino - 1 year ago
@Deftly:

Then you manage less people?

Bieito_Skybourne - 1 year ago

Thanks for the update! Lots of good info here and a lot to digest. Look forward to seeing the next update!

LordBronn - 1 year ago

I am actually looking forward to the NPC marriages versus the player marriages.

RedDoggybone - 1 year ago

Moonlynx said, "And if you have spent hundreds of dollars on the game, why wouldn't you be active? You would like to get your money's worth, wouldn't you?"

You misunderstood what I meant by active. I meant your character doing less physical type things because of their age not playing the game less.

Antelino - 1 year ago
@RedDoggybone:

There is no physical requirement for "Story Points" You get them for continuing the story of the server, however big your impact is on the story would be how many story points you get. You just ordered a famous criminal to be beheaded? Sounds like story to me. You just crafted the first multi-load crossbow? Sounds like story points to me. You just worked out a trade deal with another kingdom that increases the kingdom's coffers enough to hire mercenaries and defend the kingdom from an invading army? Sounds like story points to me.

Kapier - 1 year ago

For me the choice to get a heir and if you die he pops up at the age of 15 was worrying me. I thought it would destroy the immersion and thought if this is going to continue, more and more features would end in breaking the immersion. Im very glad this is being worked on and like the direction the game is heading to.

Kaynadin - 1 year ago

Does this mean we can kill children of nobles now to force the nobles to protect their children? Or if I launch an attack and kill a king and his child is sitting next to him will I just need to sit there and wave at the invulnerable child?

And, will children count as family members for the 28 day timer that comes into play for adverse possession? If so and they are untouchable that could mess with that timeline. I take over a throne room, the timer starts. On day 12 young billy wanders in and resets the timer.

Antelino - 1 year ago
@Kaynadin:

NPC's wouldn't count towards adverse possession from what I can tell, and I highly doubt you are "taking the throne room" and the child wondering in from no where is what would be your concern. Don't get too concerned about some of the nitty gritty, all of it will be explained well before game launch.

Maulvorn - 1 year ago
@Kaynadin:

Posted By Kaynadin at 12:39 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

Does this mean we can kill children of nobles now to force the nobles to protect their children? Or if I launch an attack and kill a king and his child is sitting next to him will I just need to sit there and wave at the invulnerable child?

And, will children count as family members for the 28 day timer that comes into play for adverse possession? If so and they are untouchable that could mess with that timeline. I take over a throne room, the timer starts. On day 12 young billy wanders in and resets the timer.

You can kill the kid.

Mesis - 1 year ago

Great update, but there is one thing I am not really fond of:

Longer years and coming of age

  1. It feels unnatural, basicaly doubling your lifespan and than reducing it back to original value

  2. If you take control over your child who is 40 years old, doesnt it mean he will be old sooner thus making him physically weaker earlier?

  3. Wouldnt it be better if for example 1 Elyrian year=14 days but you start as a 6 year old ward or 8 year old traditional character but they would keep same appearance as 12/15 years old ? (Probably worded it wrong) Basicaly 0-15 years now = 0-8/(7,5) years in realife days

Rhaegys - 1 year ago
@Mesis:

>1. It feels unnatural, basicaly doubling your lifespan and than reducing it back to original value

Not really, there are people in RL that get to live to 40 and others up to 100 years. Not everyone lives the same ammount of years, and with these changes some exceptional cases will live much longer thatn the rest, making it looks actually more natural.

I don't understand what you mean to "reducing it back to original value".

  1. If you take control over your child who is 40 years old, doesnt it mean he will be old sooner thus making him physically weaker earlier?

Yes, that is correct.

  1. Wouldnt it be better if for example 1 Elyrian year=14 days but you start as a 6 year old ward or 8 year old traditional character but they would keep same appearance as 12/15 years old ? (Probably worded it wrong) Basicaly 0-15 years now = 0-8/(7,5) years in realife days

That would actually look more weird from our point of view, or what we are actually used to.

I think 7 days is a good number.

RedDoggybone - 1 year ago

Love the update. Especially how the developers are not rigid in their approach to the game. How they are willing to go back to old design concepts and find something better. And how they use other design concepts like story points to make the new system better.

One thing did come to mind though. I was under the impression that as a character reaches a certain age his physical skills start to diminish and his wisdom starts to improve. If you take over a NTC character as an heir at an advanced age wouldn't this be the case as well? So if I were to take over a NTC at say 45 years old, that NTC skills would already be diminishing before I took them over and at 100 they would be kind of feeble. So you would never be playing the character at his/her physical peak. And most of their life they would be less active physically. And a side question, wasn't their an age limit to how old a woman could have a child? If she is 45 when you take her over wouldn't that cause a problem for her having more children? Or am I mis-remembering?

Another thing. I can see a mad dash to "woo" that attractive NPC wench in town and how it might cause conflicts among characters. Like fighting over her and who knows maybe even duels and putting contracts on the other suitors. LOL.

Karmine - 1 year ago
@RedDoggybone:

If you want to play a spry agile character it's probably best to take over your grandchild as heir than your child if they are 40. However, if you want to play as an academic perhaps taking over an older child is better off. Plus Caspian did mention that you can train your children in the skills you want in your next life, so you aren't starting from zero here, which is great. Plus you get the multipliers to learning a skill your soul had in a previous life. It's not that terrible taking over a slightly more advanced character.

Wolfguarde - 1 year ago

Masochism? I think not! Any worthy endeavour is well worth setting aside a chunk of time to digest new info for.

That being said: A couple of concerns came up for me reading through the update.

First: When inhabiting an heir who's passing/past their prime (presumably 40-50 years old), wouldn't the player be entering a character whose physical stats have already begun the process of decay? Not necessarily as much of a problem for roleplayers or less physically inclined classes, but more of one for those likely to be engaging in combat/hard labour as a multi-generation career.

Second: Regarding access to dynasties the character has been part of previously. Would it not be possible, through this mechanic, to spy on families you've previously incarnated in if they didn't disown you? You might be a good member of that family during your time with them, then split with them over an altercation of some sort that doesn't result in your being disowned. Say you decide to destroy that family. Could you not then, between lives, inspect that dynasty to see if they still have living members?

It's a bit of an outlier of an example, but it was the first thing that came to mind reading through that part of the update.

Lastly: Soul bonds. Will these come to replace the soulmate mechanic? Or is it acceptable as-is for the realism inactive soulmates bring to the game?

Aubriella - 1 year ago

I'm so happy we'll be getting to see some female Elyrians soon! I can't wait to see the female armour and costume choices ~omg~

Plus - NPC MARRIAGE! Thank you Devs!

Crysnia - 1 year ago
@Aubriella:

Posted By Aubriella at 3:49 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

I'm so happy we'll be getting to see some female Elyrians soon! I can't wait to see the female armour and costume choices ~omg~

Plus - NPC MARRIAGE! Thank you Devs!

Can we have realistic female armour for once? Women who wore armor didn't have boob shaped breast plates.

Caeoltoiri - 1 year ago
@Crysnia:

Sleep - 1 year ago
@Caeoltoiri:

nice preview; thanks :)

Maulvorn - 1 year ago
@Caeoltoiri:

Posted By Caeoltoiri at 9:45 PM - Tue Aug 09 2016

Stylish and effective, but I want to see the helmet to see if it is just a mask or a full helmet.

Maulvorn - 1 year ago
@Crysnia:

Posted By Crysnia at 8:50 PM - Tue Aug 09 2016

Posted By Aubriella at 3:49 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

I'm so happy we'll be getting to see some female Elyrians soon! I can't wait to see the female armour and costume choices ~omg~

Plus - NPC MARRIAGE! Thank you Devs!

Can we have realistic female armour for once? Women who wore armor didn't have boob shaped breast plates.

Most often if there was a woman on the medieval battlefield they would wear male plate armour, as it was expensive to make.

RodzorJenkins - 1 year ago

This is going to be a masterpiece.

Sundae - 1 year ago

Couple questions:

Is Soul binding across lives, or just across the single marriage? Can it be reinforced with multiple marriages across lives.

Positions like king I hope earn story points just for getting assassinated (or surviving assassination), otherwise it seems particularly mean given they already have a higher risk.

How in-depth does child care work? Do we have to tamagotchi our children or hire nannies?

Aqueous - 1 year ago

Thanks for the update :) been waiting all week and was not disappointed!

I have a question from this, if you and another PC are married and have one child, who gets to lock the child as their heir? First come first serve? Also is there something like a child contract? (How are babies made, can any gender combo do that?)

Staresblankly - 1 year ago

As long as Story Points cannot be bought, I like it. An inactive Count SHOULD have a harder time holding his title then an active one. Models look great as well.

Caspian - 1 year ago
@Staresblankly:

Story Points will never be purchasable. You receive them for being an active part of the story. That's it.

Wellspring - 1 year ago
@Caspian:

Posted By Caspian at 2:50 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

Story Points will never be purchasable. You receive them for being an active part of the story. That's it.

That's not entirely true is it? I thought unused IP will be converted (at a loss) into Story Points at the end of the exposition.

IP is purchasable. Unused IP will be converted into Story Points. Therefore, Story Points are purchasable.

Or I am going off of old information here?

Kaynadin - 1 year ago
@Wellspring:

Posted By Wellspring at 9:50 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

Posted By Caspian at 2:50 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

Story Points will never be purchasable. You receive them for being an active part of the story. That's it.

That's not entirely true is it? I thought unused IP will be converted (at a loss) into Story Points at the end of the exposition.

IP is purchasable. Unused IP will be converted into Story Points. Therefore, Story Points are purchasable.

Or I am going off of old information here?

You're correct, but they convert at a substantial loss, and are not purchasable ongoing

Ilhar - 1 year ago

""All characters you create will require some amount of story points, even if that's zero. The more famous/powerful the character you want to create/take control of, the more Story Points they'll require""

Problem I see here is that kings and queens are put at even greater risks. Given that only a handful of deaths means a final death for such titles, and that there heirs and family are now in game and thus able to be killed. Now they need to also have story points.

This means even a great king and a super active one could be screwed, here are a few such situation

Assassins just kill heirs first then poof no one to jump to when he dies king is done.

Assassins just kill the king then who he jumps to, didn't have time for story points to accrue or hell even get adjusted to rebirth poof he is over.

I mean there is enough risk of losing a title without needing to add story point costs. a lazy count or duke just gets replaced by the system you already have in place when those above and below them get upset over there laziness.

Further, this also causes a very unrealistic thing, King dies but lacks story points, game ignores his heir.

Personally I would say if they lacked the story points then they automatically grant Casus Belli to any eligible people for set time. Still makes them vulnerable but doesn't just cast them out and ignore there claim. What if that count was super active but because of war and such died a lot and didn't have the story points to keep up the title? Land loses a good player and good ruler because of some stupid mechanic that was added.

This also heavily goes against

""A title can only be revoked due to a player's choice of actions. A title can only be revoked due to a player's choice of actions.""

This was so important it was said twice and now is being completely ignored here.

Karmine - 1 year ago
@Ilhar:

It's important to remember here that just like King's and Queens take a higher life penalty for their fame, so do they also get the same multiplier for Story Points as discussed in previous design journals.

Brynath - 1 year ago
@Ilhar:

If someone is actively participating in a war, I would imagine that they are actively generating SP.

Repeatedly going to war, while effectively managing your County would be hard to do. If you are accomplishing this, you are adding to the story.

What they are trying to do here is stop the Noble who isn't contributing to the game. If you are actively playing you should be contributing to the game. If you never login and play your actions are showing that maybe you shouldn't be a Noble.

Maulvorn - 1 year ago
@Brynath:

Posted By Brynath at 6:13 PM - Tue Aug 09 2016

If someone is actively participating in a war, I would imagine that they are actively generating SP.

Repeatedly going to war, while effectively managing your County would be hard to do. If you are accomplishing this, you are adding to the story.

What they are trying to do here is stop the Noble who isn't contributing to the game. If you are actively playing you should be contributing to the game. If you never login and play your actions are showing that maybe you shouldn't be a Noble.

They should also take into account what the player does, I don't want them to award for just "good" behaviour, but award "bad" behaviour as well such as excessive use of force, high taxes as that is still the player "doing" things, enabling both "good" and "bad" players to earn SP.

Onil_Shadowsworn - 1 year ago
@Ilhar:

Posted By Necoryuu at 8:15 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

""All characters you create will require some amount of story points, even if that's zero. The more famous/powerful the character you want to create/take control of, the more Story Points they'll require""

Problem I see here is that kings and queens are put at even greater risks. Given that only a handful of deaths means a final death for such titles, and that there heirs and family are now in game and thus able to be killed. Now they need to also have story points.

This means even a great king and a super active one could be screwed, here are a few such situation

Assassins just kill heirs first then poof no one to jump to when he dies king is done.

Assassins just kill the king then who he jumps to, didn't have time for story points to accrue or hell even get adjusted to rebirth poof he is over.

I mean there is enough risk of losing a title without needing to add story point costs. a lazy count or duke just gets replaced by the system you already have in place when those above and below them get upset over there laziness.

Further, this also causes a very unrealistic thing, King dies but lacks story points, game ignores his heir.

Personally I would say if they lacked the story points then they automatically grant Casus Belli to any eligible people for set time. Still makes them vulnerable but doesn't just cast them out and ignore there claim. What if that count was super active but because of war and such died a lot and didn't have the story points to keep up the title? Land loses a good player and good ruler because of some stupid mechanic that was added.

This also heavily goes against

""A title can only be revoked due to a player's choice of actions. A title can only be revoked due to a player's choice of actions.""

This was so important it was said twice and now is being completely ignored here.

No one will be able to "just" kill a king. And if he will, well that wasn't that much of an active and important king, was he?

Takeda_Shinukage - 1 year ago
@Onil_Shadowsworn:

Posted By Thunder Prodigy at 4:11 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

Posted By Necoryuu at 8:15 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

""All characters you create will require some amount of story points, even if that's zero. The more famous/powerful the character you want to create/take control of, the more Story Points they'll require""

Problem I see here is that kings and queens are put at even greater risks. Given that only a handful of deaths means a final death for such titles, and that there heirs and family are now in game and thus able to be killed. Now they need to also have story points.

This means even a great king and a super active one could be screwed, here are a few such situation

Assassins just kill heirs first then poof no one to jump to when he dies king is done.

Assassins just kill the king then who he jumps to, didn't have time for story points to accrue or hell even get adjusted to rebirth poof he is over.

I mean there is enough risk of losing a title without needing to add story point costs. a lazy count or duke just gets replaced by the system you already have in place when those above and below them get upset over there laziness.

Further, this also causes a very unrealistic thing, King dies but lacks story points, game ignores his heir.

Personally I would say if they lacked the story points then they automatically grant Casus Belli to any eligible people for set time. Still makes them vulnerable but doesn't just cast them out and ignore there claim. What if that count was super active but because of war and such died a lot and didn't have the story points to keep up the title? Land loses a good player and good ruler because of some stupid mechanic that was added.

This also heavily goes against

""A title can only be revoked due to a player's choice of actions. A title can only be revoked due to a player's choice of actions.""

This was so important it was said twice and now is being completely ignored here.

No one will be able to "just" kill a king. And if he will, well that wasn't that much of an active and important king, was he?

Exactly lol. If a king cant protect his heirs and himself he is a bad king. This isn't assassins creed. If even one guard hits you, you will be wonded and lose HP and Vitality. By the time you would get to the king or his heirs they would probably be stronger than you because of your wound. This means to basically assassinate a king and his heirs you cant let one guard hit you. You know how hard that is????

Not to mention you can hide your heirs in player dungeons or just have them live somewhere away from you that no one else knows about.

Pharazon - 1 year ago
@Ilhar:

Posted By Necoryuu at 1:15 AM - Tue Aug 09 2016

-snip-

Let me take a swing at some of these concerns.

First kings are not at even greater risk because they have a much larger dynasty to pull from than normal players and they are the only ones who would know for certain which NPCs have been marked to as heirs. So unless you are killing off the entire family tree you aren't going to be able to remove the entire line of succession.

Also a king/queen who is not actively using his/her resources to protect their family is not worthy of being on the throne in the first place. They are going to have access to the full might of military and monetary resources to make sure their heirs are safer than any other player is capable of. So while it may be possible to assassinate them, it is going to be no easy feat and somewhat pointless as the King/Queen will have more than one heir in their dynasty.

The game doesn't ignore the heir of the King either. The player is just not able to keep the dynasty locked by inhabiting the heir. The heir will still take over, but is now an NPC and the King will have to move down the food chain one step because they were not active enough to ensure they had the points to inherit the NPC that was in line to the throne.

In response to the specific example of the count, even with massive amounts of deaths it is extremely hard to have a lifespan of less than 3 months of IRL time especially as the rules of death during war and multiple deaths in quick succession are not the same as normal death. This coupled with the fact that you are supposed to be able to earn enough story points for inhabiting an heir in 3 months of normal play should mean that even the count in your example will be more than safe in their dynasty.

And lastly, a player choosing to not play the game at a level befitting their title is a choice. Sometimes RL makes that choice for you, but just like with anything in life if you take on the role, then you have to fulfill the responsibilities and the way the Nobility is structured in Elyria the same is very true. If you want to be a count, duke or king and have the perks and power, then you are agreeing to take on the responsibilities (including time commitment) that it entails.

Burtill - 1 year ago

So how do skills and skill ramps work in this new system?

Fudgemuffinator - 1 year ago

Love the update! It's always reassuring and interesting to see your solutions to problems that crop up.

Devoun - 1 year ago

"I get to use or share my children with my friends as I see fit". Hahahahahaha, that is hilarious!

Moonlynx - 1 year ago
@Devoun:

Keep in mind that you likely won't see many one child families. Nobility generally go with the heir and the spare philosophy at the very least.

And if you have spent hundreds of dollars on the game, why wouldn't you be active? You would like to get your money's worth, wouldn't you?

Glyph Sage - 1 year ago

I really liked the look into how you resolved the cascading effects of the change to season length. And that is an awesome use for Story points!

Moonlynx - 1 year ago

The only thing that I see missing is that childbearing needs to have an upper age limit. It is just not logical for a character who is a hundred years old to become a new first-time mom/dad.

Raiborn - 1 year ago

Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed update. Regarding skill attainment for heirs what if the heir we have spent time training reaches the NTC age cap before we pass away. Would we be able to train multipe potential heirs simultaneously?

BaronMagisto - 1 year ago

please please please, don't allow story points to be bought for real money, they should only be attained through in game means, and i believe currently this is the case, the more tasks you complete and the more you play the more SP you attain. What we don't want is people spending 10-20$ and getting 1000 story points and just making their next character more powerful/famous.

Antelino - 1 year ago
@BaronMagisto:

He didn't say anything about being able to purchase story points, and his general tone towards pay to win would not suggest this either. I wouldn't worry about it.

MeltedWater - 1 year ago

So how will the leveling of skills work? Say I am a master blacksmith and want to take over my son as an heir to level my blacksmithing skill faster, but he's not old enough so I have to take over, say, my niece, whose parents aren't blacksmiths. How will that work?

Idca - 1 year ago

"NPC marriage is being added to the game, along with mechanics to woo your chosen." Chronicles of Elyria dating sim confirmed!

Jokes aside, good update. Happy to hear of the game's progress.

Antelino - 1 year ago
@Idca:

I can't wait to see what Caspian thinks is flirting xD His poor wife :P

Sullen - 1 year ago

Umm, question?

Using your Prince example as a reference, say I am playing my first life and I don't have a Dynasty or true Family structure to fall back on yet, it's me and my wife. We have a child and I am killed before that child is matured enough to be used. The child is the hier and not old enough to be used and no other children. What do I do in that situation.

I can see later on once you get a family or dynasty established but in the beginning there will be few extended families. Am I forced to enhabit my wife's brother since I am a only child?

xXIrken_InvaderXx - 1 year ago
@Sullen:

Posted By Sullen at 7:39 PM - Mon Aug 08 2016

Umm, question?

Using your Prince example as a reference, say I am playing my first life and I don't have a Dynasty or true Family structure to fall back on yet, it's me and my wife. We have a child and I am killed before that child is matured enough to be used. The child is the hier and not old enough to be used and no other children. What do I do in that situation.

I can see later on once you get a family or dynasty established but in the beginning there will be few extended families. Am I forced to enhabit my wife's brother since I am a only child

So on top of sullen's post, say I have a child in the game and the child reaches 15 before I die will I be able to take said child out into the world with me if say I wanted to be a champion or assassin or something similar? Will I be able to have like a father son type team thing going on until father dies and son takes over?

Scourge - 1 year ago
@Sullen:

Why the wife's brother? If it is an NPC, you could become her- inheritance is not Patriarchal, at least not inherently. I suppose some kingdoms might make that a thing, but it probably wouldn't be popular. Besides, you may not have children, but you should have parents, and even siblings. While the siblings aren't locked, the parents will be, and you shall have the codes for the siblings. I doubt you can really make a character that doesn't have some family, unless you choose a disowned character or a ward of the state. In which case, I am going to go out on a limb and say any property without an heir will go to the state, at some level (Count deals primarily with property, I believe) which can then be sold, taken, or built upon at the state's discretion.

SilentFox - 1 year ago

Amazing, keep up the development I hope early alpha comes soon >_<

Phydra - 1 year ago

Excellent update; one small suggestion: Consider moving the TL;DR section to the top. So, you know, people who do TL;DR get it first. :)

Me, I read it all because that's how I roll. ;)

I particularly like this the part about nobility who are not active risk losing their title.

Rage_Injector - 1 year ago
@Phydra:

Posted By Phydra at 7:10 PM - Mon Aug 08 2016

Excellent update; one small suggestion: Consider moving the TL;DR section to the top. So, you know, people who do TL;DR get it first. :)

Me, I read it all because that's how I roll. ;)

I particularly like this the part about nobility who are not active risk losing their title.

A little late to quote this but I just got back from Iraq so forgive me. Putting the TL;DR at the beginning makes it not a TL;DR. On the Army we do this all the time and it's called a BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front).

Wishore patch notes/updates and long articles used this.

Takeda_Shinukage - 1 year ago

First comment, get at me.

Syckness - 1 year ago

Excellent update, keep it up!