At this point, we do not know if there is a possible way for a single city to be granted independence and, essentially, become a Kingdom consisting of only a few counties (A City State is not just the city, it's the city and its immediately dependent territories...so all the little farming villages near the city). Or for a Kingdom to truly dissolve and fall apart.

Likewise, we don't know if it is possible to go conquer a City and declare it independent....or to go establish a town in unclaimed land (not likely to exist at game launch, would have to be on a new, unsettled continent).

However, this is a very convoluted and complicated means by which this could happen, with the currently known mechanics. It is, however, extraordinarily unlikely.

What you'd need to do is be a King (however you got there), then have all of your Dukes declare Casus Belli against you, but set up their own kingdom instead of conquering yours. This leaves you as a King with only a single Duchy to rule. Then, have all of your Counts (except the ones you want to keep) declare Casus Belli against you the same way. This leaves you as a King over a handful of Counties....maybe even only one. Tada! You're a City-State! And will be conquered in a few weeks, most likely.

There may be other mechanics that permit this possibility, as mentioned at the start of this post...but given what we currently have, what I listed is basically the only known way to accomplish it.

We know that if you own enough land you can attempt a casus belli which can let you turn your land into a county but of course you would need to defend your claim. I'm not sure but I imagine if that's the case for that if you gain even more land you would be able to again use casus belli to gain independence as a dutchy and then potentially a Kingdom. I would presume that the amount of land you would need to own to pull this off would be expensive.

Well from what I heard there are 2 methods of CB. You can CB your local area and separate or CB the seat of power and take the entire entity. Suppose you CB the count and for whatever reason you guys agree to the separation. Your now a micro-county with a single settlement. What's to stop you from doing this again from count to duke if you gain the favor again? Now your a micro duchy. Now it's time to do it on the king level.

There are a couple of ways I see getting that agreement to take place:

• You have a considerably large and skilled group that would be more trouble than it's worth to try to take over or aggravate. Meaning that the resources spent trying to take back the land from your CB would outweigh the resources they could get out of the land. Kinda like North Korea. The potential damage from a nuclear war with North Korea heavily outweighs the gain from defeating them so we can't really touch them rn.

• Payment or contract obligations. For example seperating from county X has __ fine to cover the future taxes you would have payed to the county. Mind you it would probavly be a HUGE HUGE HUGE number.

• Having something as leverage that is worth more than your town is to keep in that county/duchy/kingdom? Maybe a stolen artifact from a DE? If they CB you rip that artifact.

imo, if you can make it worth my while I would allow a city state in my county. For me it would most likely be a form of payment and a Ally-in-battle pact saying that should one of us be attacked the other would be ready to aid.

Realistically for a city state, I would personally probably charge 3 years of tax + a percentage based off in-game current events. The 3 ( so 156 tax payments upfront) years of tax would mean I wouldn't lose money from not having your settlement and the percentage extra accounts for unforeseen issues that would require me to take more money from a settlement had they stayed in the county. Although I would probably only allow 1 to exist in my county.

Although getting my permission only makes you a city-county lol. You still need to get permission for your county be a duchy than a city-state. Although If your city was in a royal duchy the duke and king would be the same person so it would be easier in that sense but harder because the king would have to agree to let a lone nation inside of HIS royal duchy close to his capital and seat of power.

first off i love where the OP is coming from.... not wanting to be under some one elses thumb and be independent is just a natural thing for us humans we love to rule ourselves.

this would work if u were a lone town owner and was first across the ocean to new lands and started building up over then you could use that new lands to leverage urself to Independence back home or give up home and build yourself a new empire over seas.

i cant see a single town lasting long alone on the mainlands... unless it is hidden in the mountains or deep in a jungle or desert... but it would have to be like a Ninja Village... Ultra top secret level of security... no one allowed out or any one discovering it was to be permdeathed....

still it would be found eventually and conquered by some power hungry count...

so i figure yes it could be done but without a huge community of players to defend it and build it up to greatness not gonna happen...

I expect that player-monarchs will come up with a variety of different diplomatic solutions not specifically encoded, or even planned in the development. If a King and a Mayor or Baron agree between themselves that a certain town or region is independent, and then proceed to act that way then it is de facto independent - for as long as the players continue to agree... I imagine many scenarios where this might occur; for example, a player who has become extremely rich through trade might be bribed to move his resources to another kingdom - since a cash bribe will be of lesser interest to this oligarch, a promise of autonomy may be negotiated (like the free cities of mediaeval europe.) Perhaps, a King with fairly restrictive laws will want to create an enclave where local ordinances counteract the prevailing laws. This could serve as a religious enclave (Vatican City) or as a trading corridor (Macao or Hong Kong?) While this could be done by players selectively choosing to ignore the game mechanics (even offering compensations for game mechanics that cannot be overridden such as automatic tax collection) it might be hoped that the contracts system will be flexible enough to codify local alterations/exemptions/compensations. This would add legitimacy and longevity to the arrangements, perhaps even extending long after the original reason for establishment of these oddities have disappeared.

Suitably negotiated mutual defence agreements would keep these small nations from being swallowed up, as long as they serve the purpose of their protective overlord. Perhaps, with contracts, even after that purpose is gone.

I wonder if the contracts system will be powerful enough to effectively make an "embassy" settlement next to a foreign capital function under the laws of the owner's country.

Perhaps there will be advantages to increasing the autonomy of all the counties in a country and ruling a "United States", administering foreign policy and certain federal policies but leaving social policy to the Counts and Mayors. Or make independent statelets overruled like the Holy Roman Empire, Or a fully autonomous collective. like the EU (or "autonomous" like the Warsaw Pact.) So long as the ruler gains benefits (greater stability, less admin, wider reach) over the sovereign monarchy and the player characters can negotiate over minor inconsistencies anything should be possible. From a libertarian "every man is a country" utopia to a collectivist "property is theft" paraside.

@plinth what you're describing isn't really a city state, but more like what a mayor would be to the king (since the king also will have mayors directly under him in his county.)

Ferenor you could probably become a city state, is it a smart decision? probably not, but it seems to maybe be doable.

• Pros:

• you won't have to pay tax to anyone, and will be in charge of all the rules.

• Con:

• Weaker number (military)

• Weaker income (unless you like the Vatican or other city states have a strong influx of money through trade/tourisme)

• More enemies (every county/kingdom around you can fabricate a claim on your city, and with the aid from both their dukes/king they'll probably be able to take you on.) There's no pros for them to keep you an independent city state, as they're probably loosing out on taxes they could be getting.

• Smaller market/resources Unless the kingdoms decide to freely trade with you, you won't really have access to a lot of resources unless you go through their lands and potentially trade with them.

• Need much stronger diplomatic ties. For a City State to work they either need a lot of reputation (so other kingdoms won't let anything happen to them) or they need very good relations with another kingdom, maybe a city state was granted to one of the dukes who by stepping down from his claim to the throne stopped a major civil war etc. But there's plenty of things the kingdom could do to make it a pain for the city state: Set up Embargos, put tax on anything they bring in or out of your county. Restrict your movement/close borders. etc. etc. When ships become a thing we might see some tries of city states, but there's not really any real incentive for kings to have any.

Also a "city state" that pays taxes to a king isn't really a city state. But I mean, it is doable if your political game is strong. (also with all the surrounding counts.)

Also if you got another kingdom to back you with supplies and troops citing a reason as it will make the kingdom you're seceding from weaker; that would make it easier to gain an actual advantage and ally yourself with a kingdom that would recognize your independence.

City states would be an interesting extension of the existing structure of kingdom, duchy, county. I can imagine to discover an unoccupied island and call it an independent city state. dreaming

Posted By Liva at 11:20 AM - Sat Feb 18 2017

Also a "city state" that pays taxes to a king isn't really a city state. But I mean, it is doable if your political game is strong. (also with all the surrounding counts.)

i think you might need to go educate yourself about "vassal states".

There are many cases of city states becoming vassal states in history. They were required to serve the dominate state in times of war, and also often paid taxes to them. (though in many cases this was done thru tax law so that goods from the dominate state were cheaper than domestic products once taxes were factored in)

but in all other ways they were usually still independent city states. I say usually because some masters are harsher than others.

EDIT: though otherwise I agree with you. Possible, but not probable. And when it happens, it probably wont last long.