Personally, as a duke, I'm not going to do percentage based taxation. This is for two simple reasons, first is that at lower levels (sub-mayor) I doubt gold and silver will be the primary trade medium and I'll be damned if I'm gonna try and work out what 7.6% of a pig is. Second is that lump sum based taxation is both simpler to collect and attribute and is more realistic for the medieval setting.

What I mean by lump sum taxation is this: For example, King Dragor demands (for simplicity's sake) 100 gold off me as my tax contribution and I have to spend 40 gold on baronial contracts. If I have 10 counts under me I will tax each count something along the lines of 15 gold which satisfies my tax obligations, my military obligations and gives me a ten gold 'salary' with which to engage in duchy wide improvements and personal projects.

This can be repeated down a level. Count A needs to pay me 15 gold and has four settlements under him if he taxes each mayor/baron 5 gold he can not only pay off my taxes but also has some gold left over to spend on improvements to his county/personal projects.

The only issue in this type of taxation is what happens in the cashless part of the economy (since SbS want barter to be a big thing).

Posted By chipla at 8:39 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

I'll be damned if I'm gonna try and work out what 7.6% of a pig is.

I believe it's 2/7ths of a chicken.

Leaders will probably take part of that tax as a salary for themselves for the time they are spending managing everything. Or will you expect the duke to spend 30 hours a week building things to make your life easier for zero compensation?

Posted By Iccubus at

So if your count/Duke/or king are requesting 7% tax from all properties and sale tax, how much should you increase to be able to support your settlement.

The quick answer is : As high as it'll need to be for your settlement to be sustainable. How much that is will vary from one place to another.

Posted By Iccubus at

I see problems with raising it too high, players and NPC's might decide that your taxes are too high and leave the settlement.

Of course. That's one of the reasons why rulership is such a hard job, and that's where a leader's finesse will have to shine through. ;)

Posted By Iccubus at

heard people say 20%-30% taxes, seems like you would have no one in your settlement at that rate.

20% to 30% is a very high tax in our own world, but there's no saying what that'd be like in the game itself. In our world, that's considered high because there's an excessive amount of other things you also have to pay for; debts on various furniture, debts on your own house, electricity bill, water bill, internet bill, car debts, education debts, insurances, the list goes on. Without having our hands on the game, right now, and without knowing which other costs players may have to face in the game, it's impossible to state what is a reasonable or unreasonable tax rate for now.

Posted By Iccubus at

Heard people say no taxes for people joining, how can a kingdom survive with no taxes?

They most likely meant no taxes for EP land owners, but yup, a community which limits its taxes will, obviously, not have the money they might've acquired from such taxes. Whether that's worth it or not will probably be dependent on each individual community and their overall situation.

Posted By Iccubus at

Caspian joked about raise it to high and risk being overthrown, guess this is where the term death and taxes came into play.

Raise it too high, you'll risk being overthrown (by your fellow peasants, who are now angry at you), but leave it too low, and you'll also risk being overthrown (this time, by your fellow nobles, who now see an opportunity). Leadership is nowhere near an easy task, and this right here is exactly the reason.

Posted By Iccubus at

would like to heard everyone's thought on a good starting tax for kingdoms , down to a town.

I can give you a random number, but that number would ultimately mean nothing and, actually, might even end up detrimental to you since you'll have an expectation of what tax rate should be enforced, and may miss the bigger picture of whether that tax rate you've been given months before release was truly appropriate to the situation you're put into now.

My best advice would rather be to keep an open mind, and to not think about the gains and losses of a specific tax rate, but rather to think about the buying power a specific tax would leave you with. If you can think of it that way, when launch comes around, you should properly react to the taxes you may be exposed to.

I don't think 20-30% is high.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listofcountriesbytax_rates http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/personal-income-tax-rate

You also have to remember in a previous Q&A Caspian said there isn't universal coinage, as well as Caspian said that there isn't a sales tax percentage but a flat fee. So it more like the king knowing duke A has fertile lands and lot of agriculture and saying tax is 100 pigs, duke A knows city A1 has pigs and city A2 has a great blacksmith. And asks the tax from A1 being 70 pigs and A2 30 swords and gives the king 50 pigs and 20 swords. The taxes are made per a contract so doesnt mean it is going to be pure percentage but what the local govt can collect.

Posted By CerebralDaemon at 3:33 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Posted By Iccubus at

So if your count/Duke/or king are requesting 7% tax from all properties and sale tax, how much should you increase to be able to support your settlement.

The quick answer is : As high as it'll need to be for your settlement to be sustainable. How much that is will vary from one place to another.

Posted By Iccubus at

I see problems with raising it too high, players and NPC's might decide that your taxes are too high and leave the settlement.

Of course. That's one of the reasons why rulership is such a hard job, and that's where a leader's finesse will have to shine through. ;)

Posted By Iccubus at

heard people say 20%-30% taxes, seems like you would have no one in your settlement at that rate.

20% to 30% is a very high tax in our own world, but there's no saying what that'd be like in the game itself. In our world, that's considered high because there's an excessive amount of other things you also have to pay for; debts on various furniture, debts on your own house, electricity bill, water bill, internet bill, car debts, education debts, insurances, the list goes on. Without having our hands on the game, right now, and without knowing which other costs players may have to face in the game, it's impossible to state what is a reasonable or unreasonable tax rate for now.

Posted By Iccubus at

Heard people say no taxes for people joining, how can a kingdom survive with no taxes?

They most likely meant no taxes for EP land owners, but yup, a community which limits its taxes will, obviously, not have the money they might've acquired from such taxes. Whether that's worth it or not will probably be dependent on each individual community and their overall situation.

Posted By Iccubus at

Caspian joked about raise it to high and risk being overthrown, guess this is where the term death and taxes came into play.

Raise it too high, you'll risk being overthrown (by your fellow peasants, who are now angry at you), but leave it too low, and you'll also risk being overthrown (this time, by your fellow nobles, who now see an opportunity). Leadership is nowhere near an easy task, and this right here is exactly the reason.

Posted By Iccubus at

would like to heard everyone's thought on a good starting tax for kingdoms , down to a town.

I can give you a random number, but that number would ultimately mean nothing and, actually, might even end up detrimental to you since you'll have an expectation of what tax rate should be enforced, and may miss the bigger picture of whether that tax rate you've been given months before release was truly appropriate to the situation you're put into now.

My best advice would rather be to keep an open mind, and to not think about the gains and losses of a specific tax rate, but rather to think about the buying power a specific tax would leave you with. If you can think of it that way, when launch comes around, you should properly react to the taxes you may be exposed to.

The specific rate will also be impacted by what your neighbors do. It will all be one giant application of economic game theory as leaders jocky around trying to attract people while also retaining their existing population and using money to pay off the necessary people to retain power (which will be the cornerstone of retaining power. Leaders must use gold and favors to keep those below them in their camps).

thanks for all the relies didn't expect so many.

I guess I was expecting a calculation on the base number , expenses going out , and profit for who you are pledged to and profit to settlement for future improvements. Did understand that this number might be rotating depending on how well your settlement is doing.

have a better idea of how this could change depending on situation.

Thank you everyone

Posted By chipla at 2:39 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

What I mean by lump sum taxation is this: For example, King Dragor demands....

Oh, is he still a king? I haven't been around for a while and I have no idea who I'm supposed to antagonize anymore.

Caspian:

"Taxation will be a concrete number rather than a percentage, such as “I tax you 5 iron bars” rather than 10%, because it’s hard to calculate what 10% is. It removes deception to taxation. We don’t want NPCs to sign contracts; they will give you contracts but not the other way around. The NPCs work on a push model rather than a pull model."

Posted By Liva at 5:11 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Caspian:

"Taxation will be a concrete number rather than a percentage, such as “I tax you 5 iron bars” rather than 10%, because it’s hard to calculate what 10% is. It removes deception to taxation. We don’t want NPCs to sign contracts; they will give you contracts but not the other way around. The NPCs work on a push model rather than a pull model."

So would you setup delivery of these taxes (items or credits, or would collector come and get them. Or a table that you would submit for the tax?

Posted By CerebralDaemon at 9:33 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

20% to 30% is a very high tax in our own world,

My tax rate is 38%, my parents' rate is 45%, that socialist bugger Corbyn wants to raise both our rates and then tax us for daring to own property in London. I pay 20% tax on everything I buy (not including import taxes and various 'moral' taxes). Not counting, of course, any US investments of mine (subject to all sorts of taxes).

No real point here I just needed to vent that.

Posted By Freeman at 10:08 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Oh, is he still a king? I haven't been around for a while and I have no idea who I'm supposed to antagonize anymore.

No clue who you are but yeah he's one of the backer kings - just look at the influence list for the full list of kings.

Posted By chipla at 5:59 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Posted By CerebralDaemon at 9:33 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

20% to 30% is a very high tax in our own world,

My tax rate is 38%, my parents' rate is 45%, that socialist bugger Corbyn wants to raise both our rates and then tax us for daring to own property in London. I pay 20% tax on everything I buy (not including import taxes and various 'moral' taxes). Not counting, of course, any US investments of mine (subject to all sorts of taxes).

No real point here I just needed to vent that.

Posted By Freeman at 10:08 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Oh, is he still a king? I haven't been around for a while and I have no idea who I'm supposed to antagonize anymore.

No clue who you are but yeah he's one of the backer kings - just look at the influence list for the full list of kings.

well vented now are we ? lol

Posted By chipla at 5:59 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Posted By CerebralDaemon at 9:33 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

20% to 30% is a very high tax in our own world,

My tax rate is 38%, my parents' rate is 45%, that socialist bugger Corbyn wants to raise both our rates and then tax us for daring to own property in London. I pay 20% tax on everything I buy (not including import taxes and various 'moral' taxes). Not counting, of course, any US investments of mine (subject to all sorts of taxes).

No real point here I just needed to vent that.

Only answer I could ever give to that is, welcome to capitalism. xD

Posted By Iccubus at 11:26 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Posted By Liva at 5:11 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Caspian:

"Taxation will be a concrete number rather than a percentage, such as “I tax you 5 iron bars” rather than 10%, because it’s hard to calculate what 10% is. It removes deception to taxation. We don’t want NPCs to sign contracts; they will give you contracts but not the other way around. The NPCs work on a push model rather than a pull model."

So would you setup delivery of these taxes (items or credits, or would collector come and get them. Or a table that you would submit for the tax?

You can go around and take it yourself or get other's to do it for you