COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Of balancing of weaponnery and armours

According to the realistic kind of this game, are we eventually see a mmorpg not featuring all plates warriors running like crazy, whatever being the terrain (wastes, high grass, snow, low level river, stairs and the such) while whirling two handed sword or axe at each others ?

Also will plate armours feature some moving penalty (especially swimming) due to weight (in addition of free of move) as maybe some cold penalty (facilitating frozen state) due to iron as steel not protecting from cold nor hot temperatures at all ?

Will dagger users have a chance to kill a full plate warrior using a two handed sword, by dodging a lot as kitting if necessary, or will can warriors be death incarnate ?

Will daggers deal a third of the damage of a sword and a sword half the damage of a great sword, like any featured weapons of any random mmorpg since ever ? Or will dagger be actually lethal in a realistic way like they should too ?


"Anything, from the malicious hummingbird to the stately dryas elk leaves a trail to the skilled eye, but master hunters. Only way for a fool to find them is to stalk the silence, but only a legend can truely merge with the wild up to become a relentless nature spirit." Shrike the stuffer.

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4/28/2017 11:15:15 PM #1

You won't be able to swim in heavy armor.

Yes different armor types would have different insulation factors.

Yes there are movement and stamina penalties for wearing or carrying things that weigh a lot.

Dagger users have a chance if you are good enough at parrying but there is no kiting to heal up or anything.

The lethality of any weapon depends on the armor type of your opponent and your ability to deliver accurate strikes on the vulnerable parts of them. There would just be fewer vulnerable parts that a dagger could penetrate well compared to a sword or a war hammer or other larger weapon.


4/28/2017 11:30:10 PM #2

Also the way Mount and Blade balances it- with realism.

Simply put, heavy armor will be expensive as all hell.


4/28/2017 11:42:20 PM #3

Expense is only a balance for a small time frame. Eventually that expense will be less and less of a factor as cities and player econ develops. That may very well be the intention of the dev team because it adds satisfaction to those who reach that point. But cost alone is not a balance its a restriction at the beginning but eventually surpassed. Thats why having a deep and skill based combat system must be the anchor to the game


4/29/2017 2:10:41 AM #4

Full plate in an army is superior but 1 vs 1 you can win by just running around poking them. so depends on the usage it have it good and weak sides.

Full plate = slow and hard to move in, ultmate protection. Longsword = long range + very good damage but slow attacks easy to kite around and poke but low chance to get damaged

Light Armor = easy to move in, no penalty. weak protection Dagger = easy to target weak spots and attack fast. needs to be close. 1 hitt will most likely mean death


What goes up must come down. Make something idiot-proof, and they will build a better idiot. If a plan is stupid, and it works, it isn't stupid.

4/29/2017 2:18:49 AM #5

Posted By Amira at 9:10 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Full plate in an army is superior but 1 vs 1 you can win by just running around poking them. so depends on the usage it have it good and weak sides.

Full plate = slow and hard to move in, ultmate protection. Longsword = long range + very good damage but slow attacks easy to kite around and poke but low chance to get damaged

Light Armor = easy to move in, no penalty. weak protection Dagger = easy to target weak spots and attack fast. needs to be close. 1 hitt will most likely mean death

Realistically, a longsword is a fast, medium-sized weapon, as far as actual medieval weaponry goes. Even when talking about a legitimate longsword, and not a mislabeled bastard sword like what you see 95% of the time.

Longswords were extreme niche weapons on the battlefield, usually for escorting a commander or standard-bearer.

Daggers of course, were only sidearms for the wealthy. Contrary to popular belief, your average archer would carry a small axe as a sidearm, as those would also have utility use off of the battlefield.


4/29/2017 4:02:02 AM #6

Posted By Scheneighnay at 7:18 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Realistically, a longsword is a fast, medium-sized weapon, as far as actual medieval weaponry goes. Even when talking about a legitimate longsword, and not a mislabeled bastard sword like what you see 95% of the time.

"Longsword" is a horrible term if you are talking about historical accuracy. It is usually referring to what is actually known as the bastard sword, which was not a fast weapon, often being held in two hands. People call it a longsword because it was longer than an arming sword, which is what someone would use in one hand.

If you are instead meaning a rapier then yes it is fast as well as being a niche weapon being used for self-defense and duels.


4/29/2017 7:23:00 AM #7

Posted By Scheneighnay at 01:30 AM - Sat Apr 29 2017

Also the way Mount and Blade balances it- with realism.

Simply put, heavy armor will be expensive as all hell.

As stated above, in a big guild pov prices is neglectable for they can easily overcome high prices threshold thanks to solidarity.

It's only an actual mountain to climb for small guilds as solo players. Not requesting heavy armours to be cheap, but prices is certainly not a good way to balance weaponnery nor armours.


"Anything, from the malicious hummingbird to the stately dryas elk leaves a trail to the skilled eye, but master hunters. Only way for a fool to find them is to stalk the silence, but only a legend can truely merge with the wild up to become a relentless nature spirit." Shrike the stuffer.

4/29/2017 10:36:52 AM #8

Armour went through many many refinements to perfect. It had to be carried and maintained. It was incredibly expensive.

Yet people who could wear it, did wear it. Not because they wanted to shift their stats or become a bit stronger here and a bit weaker there. But because fully armed and armoured men have a massive advantage over unarmored men using sidearms or tools (daggers or knives).

Your strikes with a light weapon on an armoured man wouldn't do 1/3 damage. They would do no damage. They simply expose you to counter attack for nothing (and very possible dull or break your weapon).

Yes it's possible to kill an armoured man with a dagger by targeting weak points. Your problem is the weak points are tiny and he knows them better than you do. You are a little lighter on your feet but he has far longer range. He can hit you when you can't hit him so timing is in his favour. He has only a tiny area to protect whereas a hit to you anywhere at all is likely to be lethal or crippling.

Killing a man in full armour with a dagger would very likely be done not with swiftness but with grappling. You take him down, achieve dominant position and then deliver the coup de grace when he can't protect himself.

Point of all of this is that you're at a massive disadvantage. You need to be far more skilled than he is to stand a chance. Sounds good. Except the reason he's in that incredibly expensive war gear is that he's a warrior trained from childhood. Lumbering guys who can't fight wearing full armour are for movies.

Long and short of it, I doubt many people want realistic on this one.


4/29/2017 10:40:31 AM #9

Im lazy didnt read previous comments....Full plate isnt as hindering as people think it is. Ive seen people run around do push ups scale walls and do backflips in full plate it aint hindering its just heavyish


4/29/2017 11:46:51 AM #10

I would be all for accurate damage and the requirement to grapple and find weak points to damage heavy armor wearers myself, but that's a lot of extra animation and a lot of specific small hit boxes that shift based on armor type to define. And yes people would probably complain about their lack of ability to damage the armor wearer via standard slashes and thrusts.


4/29/2017 11:57:03 AM #11

Posted By Rook303 at 7:42 PM - Fri Apr 28 2017

Expense is only a balance for a small time frame. Eventually that expense will be less and less of a factor as cities and player econ develops. That may very well be the intention of the dev team because it adds satisfaction to those who reach that point. But cost alone is not a balance its a restriction at the beginning but eventually surpassed. Thats why having a deep and skill based combat system must be the anchor to the game

Exactly this . But good armor should still be expensive :) it just makes it feel more rewarding when you're one of the only people In town with a full plate armor set !


4/29/2017 12:23:30 PM #12

Posted By Toutatis at

According to the realistic kind of this game, are we eventually see a mmorpg not featuring all plates warriors running like crazy, whatever being the terrain (wastes, high grass, snow, low level river, stairs and the such) while whirling two handed sword or axe at each others ?

Also will plate armours feature some moving penalty (especially swimming) due to weight (in addition of free of move) as maybe some cold penalty (facilitating frozen state) due to iron as steel not protecting from cold nor hot temperatures at all ?

Will dagger users have a chance to kill a full plate warrior using a two handed sword, by dodging a lot as kitting if necessary, or will can warriors be death incarnate ?

Will daggers deal a third of the damage of a sword and a sword half the damage of a great sword, like any featured weapons of any random mmorpg since ever ? Or will dagger be actually lethal in a realistic way like they should too ?

Think about it is it a good idea to go up against someone in full plate that is carrying a 2h sword with a dagger....?


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4/29/2017 12:28:51 PM #13

Posted By Amira at 04:10 AM - Sat Apr 29 2017

Full plate in an army is superior but 1 vs 1 you can win by just running around poking them. so depends on the usage it have it good and weak sides.

Full plate = slow and hard to move in, ultmate protection. Longsword = long range + very good damage but slow attacks easy to kite around and poke but low chance to get damaged

Light Armor = easy to move in, no penalty. weak protection Dagger = easy to target weak spots and attack fast. needs to be close. 1 hitt will most likely mean death

god I hate when people say your slow in plate! The weight is spread all over the body making it not much harder to move in than any other armor.

And no IRL you could not just run around them and poke them because you would be fucked because they are not slow in the first place.


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4/29/2017 2:26:31 PM #14

Posted By LordAntonius at 07:28 AM - Sat Apr 29 2017

Posted By Amira at 04:10 AM - Sat Apr 29 2017

Full plate in an army is superior but 1 vs 1 you can win by just running around poking them. so depends on the usage it have it good and weak sides.

Full plate = slow and hard to move in, ultmate protection. Longsword = long range + very good damage but slow attacks easy to kite around and poke but low chance to get damaged

Light Armor = easy to move in, no penalty. weak protection Dagger = easy to target weak spots and attack fast. needs to be close. 1 hitt will most likely mean death

god I hate when people say your slow in plate! The weight is spread all over the body making it not much harder to move in than any other armor.

And no IRL you could not just run around them and poke them because you would be fucked because they are not slow in the first place.

Part of that is that games often let you do things like circle strafe a target. We should not be able to sidestep at the same rate as you can run. And you should not be able to pivot around while running or do things like jump and spin in a circle to attack behind you or attack someone in the back after running through them.


4/29/2017 9:28:16 PM #15

Posted By Zariel at 12:40 PM - Sat Apr 29 2017

Im lazy didnt read previous comments....Full plate isnt as hindering as people think it is. Ive seen people run around do push ups scale walls and do backflips in full plate it aint hindering its just heavyish

Yeah, heavy armour is just heavy, yet you can't be as agile as an unarmoured fighter, and you obviously burn your stamina way faster.

Posted By AlricJ at 12:36 PM - Sat Apr 29 2017

Armour went through many many refinements to perfect. It had to be carried and maintained. It was incredibly expensive.

Yet people who could wear it, did wear it. Not because they wanted to shift their stats or become a bit stronger here and a bit weaker there. But because fully armed and armoured men have a massive advantage over unarmored men using sidearms or tools (daggers or knives).

Your strikes with a light weapon on an armoured man wouldn't do 1/3 damage. They would do no damage. They simply expose you to counter attack for nothing (and very possible dull or break your weapon).

Yes it's possible to kill an armoured man with a dagger by targeting weak points. Your problem is the weak points are tiny and he knows them better than you do. You are a little lighter on your feet but he has far longer range. He can hit you when you can't hit him so timing is in his favour. He has only a tiny area to protect whereas a hit to you anywhere at all is likely to be lethal or crippling.

Killing a man in full armour with a dagger would very likely be done not with swiftness but with grappling. You take him down, achieve dominant position and then deliver the coup de grace when he can't protect himself.

Point of all of this is that you're at a massive disadvantage. You need to be far more skilled than he is to stand a chance. Sounds good. Except the reason he's in that incredibly expensive war gear is that he's a warrior trained from childhood. Lumbering guys who can't fight wearing full armour are for movies.

Long and short of it, I doubt many people want realistic on this one.

By using so many "if" and "except" I fail to see realism in your post. Armours have many weak points, especially on the rear for fully armoured knights were usually fighting on a battlefield, not duelling. To your warrior trained since childhood to fight one could easily oppose a thief, master in dagger, for being used to survive on his own since childhood...

Experience is not relevant on the matter, thing is dagger should be very hard to use against an armoured target, yet it should be deadly if one manages to hit a weak point.

Also, armoured fighters are well protected against blades but ill protected against blunt weapons (staff, club, hammer and the such, hence the half swording technique) meaning though using daggers would obviously be quite a challenge, yet fully armoured warriors should be far from unkillable by an unarmoured fighter.

PS : I suggest to have a look at the vid on youtube about the hald swording technique by junon armory. It's very interesting about a fight between armoured and unamoured fighters.


"Anything, from the malicious hummingbird to the stately dryas elk leaves a trail to the skilled eye, but master hunters. Only way for a fool to find them is to stalk the silence, but only a legend can truely merge with the wild up to become a relentless nature spirit." Shrike the stuffer.

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