COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Horse Riding Skill Progression

Introduction

To state it at the start I believe that everyone should be able to ride a horse/mount after observing other people ride for a few minutes, but it should have very little response to your input till you train, the stress bar would increase vastly quicker the least trained you are and your stamina bar would deplete at a much faster rate.

Riding is crucial for the long-distance travel many expect to have in the game and also for general horse/mount usage and as such it should be as fully fleshed out as some of the more mainstream skills/professions that will be in Elyria. Not only that it would add into the feel of the game due to it being a valid playstyle for a player to have his/her characters getting involved in and show visible progression for it.

Training

You would only be able to do basic walk and limited trot till you practice for a little while till you are able to reliably trot this is when your character's personal stamina/fatigue replenishment rate increases and the rate at which it diminishes, decreases as the character's body is getting trained for the physical process of riding.

The horse could provide auditory and visual feedback for the rider so if the horse smells some canis rabbits in a bush or a bandit in a bush etc.. it could provide some feedback to the rider such as making noises such nickering, blowing etc.. with head and ears pointed towards the direction of the bush, that could give the player a choice to move around the area if the player doesn’t want to fight or face whatever the horse senses.

It is not just physical traits that get used by the character but mental and social ones as well;

As shown in the attribute matrix there are 3 main divisions; Physical, Mental and Social upon which they are further divided into Force, Reflex and Endurance.

To narrow it down I suspect the three main attributes a player should get his/her character to work on if they want the character to be a skilled rider would be;

Stamina - Riding can be a very enduring profession it can be just as tiring for the rider as is for the horse.

Will - Riding is a matter of willpower, you must be willing as a rider to input your requests to the horse and keep at it till it is done. The horse must know you are serious about what you want it to do, Leadership also ties into it as the horse sees you as it’s natural protector so you must be able to transplant your leadership into the horse to get it to respect you.

Intuition - Riding requires a certain “feel” as you sit in the saddle and if you are trained for it you can detect what the horse is about to do just be subtle posture movements, ear movements etc.. Higher the Intuition the least likely it is for the horse to be scared as your character can react to it using intuition.

This is where two bars can be used on the UI of the animal that you are riding, Stress and Stamina, the more the horse is scared the more the stress bar increases and higher the stress bar the more likely the horse will kick out and misbehave/bolt off with you on or off the mount.

To clarify the stress bar relates to the horse and not the rider.

However it would depend on the horse as well, each horse could have different tolerances to stress and breeding, training etc.. would have an impact on those tolerances.

Stamina bar could be either the mounts stamina or the characters physical stamina, the more trained the rider the more efficiently the mount is ridden so the energy used by both horse and rider decreases the stamina drain on the horse and rider - Energy bars have been mentioned by Caspian in the past - it could be a good idea for dramatic storytelling if a horse could flee with you on the back even though you're unconscious! In that case the rider's energy bar would be down to zero. So maybe we could make it to be so that it drains from both the “energy bars” of the rider and horse?

This means that the energy drains at different rates because the horse could be well more trained and endure a lot better than a novice rider.. This means that a rider will need to ride a horse suitable for the skill level for that individual as otherwise the rider might not be able to keep up with other riders who are riding suitable horses for their ability levels and physical stature/condition

However; Some of this can be sidestepped if the horse goes through an area it frequents a lot so for example a paved road along a trade route a cart horse uses a lot would be much less stressed than if the horse is in unknown territory.

That is an incentive to using the same horses for a role as they are trained and accustomed to that locale. Essentially long term travel will require multiple horses if you do not want to make pit stops to rest but eventually you will need to stop though as your stamina would drain

Progression

The average character who uses a horse as purely transportation from A to B will only need to reach Apprentice, which would be easy to achieve.

However to get past apprentice you will need to get training from trained riders and facilities, this is where dedicated training facilities are in order, so menages, 20x40metre and 20x60metre arenas come into being.

You can train for a number of different branches in riding utilising these resources (and additional ones as well, such as trot poles and jumps), some of these could be;

Technical - Focusing mainly on the responsiveness of the horse to the rider, good for nimble light cavalry and similar.

Jumping - As name implies, decreases stamina drain when jumping and allows the horse to jump to it’s potential (again it is down the genetics and stature of the animal, a little 11hh pony is not going to jump 4ft jumps often, a 18hh could, however.)

Endurance - Long distance riding at speed, decreases stamina drain and increase performance on rough terrain.

Essentially you will need to work towards whatever you aim to do with riding, you want to cross rough terrain quickly? Practice using trot poles and small jumps to get the horse’s balance to a good level and do long sessions to build up the endurance of the horse for example.


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8/28/2017 12:41:03 AM #1

Posted By Maulvorn at

To state it at the start I believe that everyone should be able to ride a horse/mount after observing other people ride for a few minutes, but it should have very little response to your input till you train, the stress bar would increase vastly quicker the least trained you are and your stamina bar would deplete at a much faster rate.

(I'm not very good with forums, I hope I quoted that somewhat correctly)

This would be poor game design, be unrealistic because adrenaline makes people do crazy things when in an emergency (such as having to escape something, and the horse is clearly faster than running). This also breaks a core design element of CoE: Your character has already developed skills before you even play them for the first time. In a video game world, there is a much higher chance than not that a child NPC will ride a horse at least once before they are old enough to be played by a player.


I dislike melons reasonably

8/28/2017 5:58:08 AM #2

Posted By SmithersLorem at 01:41 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

Posted By Maulvorn at

To state it at the start I believe that everyone should be able to ride a horse/mount after observing other people ride for a few minutes, but it should have very little response to your input till you train, the stress bar would increase vastly quicker the least trained you are and your stamina bar would deplete at a much faster rate.

(I'm not very good with forums, I hope I quoted that somewhat correctly)

This would be poor game design, be unrealistic because adrenaline makes people do crazy things when in an emergency (such as having to escape something, and the horse is clearly faster than running). This also breaks a core design element of CoE: Your character has already developed skills before you even play them for the first time. In a video game world, there is a much higher chance than not that a child NPC will ride a horse at least once before they are old enough to be played by a player.

Not always, Considering NPC children aren't actually in the game till a set age (15 I believe).


8/28/2017 6:13:54 AM #3

Posted By Dleatherus at 11:07 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

mod edit

I expected better from you.

Didn't your Mother ever teach you "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything"?

The strength of this community is that it has people who are passionately interested in the game and who offer their views on various aspects of the design / possibilities for gameplay.

That it obviously has real live trolls is not going to make this a better game.


Link to my story

8/28/2017 6:28:07 AM #4

Posted By Lady Grace at 02:13 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

Posted By Dleatherus at 11:07 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

mod edit

I expected better from you.

Didn't your Mother ever teach you "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything"?

The strength of this community is that it has people who are passionately interested in the game and who offer their views on various aspects of the design / possibilities for gameplay.

That it obviously has real live trolls is not going to make this a better game.

Using a parental cliche with no practical value as your opener kinda detracts from anything you write below that. Just a line that the reader rolls their eyes at and now gives a negative bias to whatever you say whether correct or not.

However, not wanting the forums to be pseudo-spam with equine threads is going to make this a better forum. Sprinkles with sugar in the message or not. It's kinda getting unreal. Sometimes I open them just to check the date thinking "there is no way this is a NEW one".

Always wrong. Creating some master horse post is cool and fun to read for some but it's just that...a single post. Not, let me pull out my notebook and write my daily essay -.-


I don't know anymore.

8/28/2017 6:52:15 AM #5

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 07:28 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

Posted By Lady Grace at 02:13 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

Posted By Dleatherus at 11:07 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

mod edit

I expected better from you.

Didn't your Mother ever teach you "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything"?

The strength of this community is that it has people who are passionately interested in the game and who offer their views on various aspects of the design / possibilities for gameplay.

That it obviously has real live trolls is not going to make this a better game.

Using a parental cliche with no practical value as your opener kinda detracts from anything you write below that. Just a line that the reader rolls their eyes at and now gives a negative bias to whatever you say whether correct or not.

However, not wanting the forums to be pseudo-spam with equine threads is going to make this a better forum. Sprinkles with sugar in the message or not. It's kinda getting unreal. Sometimes I open them just to check the date thinking "there is no way this is a NEW one".

Always wrong. Creating some master horse post is cool and fun to read for some but it's just that...a single post. Not, let me pull out my notebook and write my daily essay -.-

~~reserved posts are OP~

This is a separate topic from the other threads. It is perfectly valid thread.

A good discussion to have. mount Riding skills.


8/28/2017 7:14:14 AM #6

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 6:28 PM - Mon Aug 28 2017

... not wanting the forums to be pseudo-spam with equine threads is going to make this a better forum. Sprinkles with sugar in the message or not. It's kinda getting unreal. Sometimes I open them just to check the date thinking "there is no way this is a NEW one".

Always wrong. Creating some master horse post is cool and fun to read for some but it's just that...a single post. Not, let me pull out my notebook and write my daily essay -.-

Not going to lie, the horse posts are only perceived to be prevalent because of the lack of other threads being made. Stop complaining about someone contributing, and start making threads about other things. Indeed there is a wealth of design material that SBS has released that has been barely touched by threads - deleting one topic to mask the absence of other topics is not the way to go.


Link to my story

8/28/2017 7:17:37 AM #7

If it only it was "mount riding skills". Actually the key factor of why your getting the response you are.

Drop.

The.

Horses.

so much avoidable hate but you continue to walk right into it....again. Replace every usage of the word horse with animal and that'll be a start. Now that your post is about GENERAL mount skills you can start deleting all material specific to horses such as what riding them entails, how they move their ears, etc.

Like you can even see the struggle in your OP. Instead of doing a general "mount" you constantly type out "horse/mount" then say fuck it Ima just start typing "horse". Simple wording leads the discussion and I feel like you know this....Even if you kept saying "horse/mount" the entire post you and I know damn well the only mount discussed would be a horse.

Aside from the eternal struggle of not talking about a horse, their is actually 0 discussion points in the thread. You just posted a mechanic write-up. That's like me giving you a presentation and just standing up there waiting for a question or response. The only reason this style of discussion works for Caspian is because his write-up actually counts so people are inclined to discuss the contents without prompt or talking points. Not only that, discussing this system is literally speculation ON TOP OF speculation.

Speculation in itself is cool and common but once you start speculating off of speculations that's when it becomes too much.


Tl;dr of not getting flamed:

  • Drop horses
  • Create relatable Talking Points
  • Don't ask for speculation on speculated mechanics

3 easy steps to stop the increasing negative feedback on these -horse- posts. Hopefully you'll use em.


I don't know anymore.

8/28/2017 7:27:18 AM #8

Posted By Lady Grace at 03:14 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 6:28 PM - Mon Aug 28 2017

... not wanting the forums to be pseudo-spam with equine threads is going to make this a better forum. Sprinkles with sugar in the message or not. It's kinda getting unreal. Sometimes I open them just to check the date thinking "there is no way this is a NEW one".

Always wrong. Creating some master horse post is cool and fun to read for some but it's just that...a single post. Not, let me pull out my notebook and write my daily essay -.-

Not going to lie, the horse posts are only perceived to be prevalent because of the lack of other threads being made. Stop complaining about someone contributing, and start making threads about other things. Indeed there is a wealth of design material that SBS has released that has been barely touched by threads - deleting one topic to mask the absence of other topics is not the way to go.

"perceived". I'm pretty sure a topic statistically having a higher frequency of posts due to a single user is an actual piece of data. Your misusing the word in that context completely.

It isn't perceived to be prevalent because of the lack of other posts, IT IS prevelant because of the lack of other posts. That is literally how a prevalent topic is made, having more numbers than any other posts.

Usually when people say "perceived" they mean it appears to be a way that it isn't. When I say his horse topics is the highest frequency topic, it appears that way because IT IS.

Unless you can find another topic matching the amount of threads created in a timeframe. Brownie point a if it's by the same user. Good luck.

It's also not about deleting. It's about putting all your horses in one basket :)

Wanna make a mount system thread? Go for it. If it's horse directed mount thread, put it with the other hay eaters. If it lacks the implication of horse in its writing, press "create new thread". Unless of course you like negativity. Because I'm pretty sure each additional horse post he makes gets more flame than the last.


I don't know anymore.

8/28/2017 7:39:42 AM #9

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 08:17 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

If it only it was "mount riding skills". Actually the key factor of why your getting the response you are.

Drop.

The.

Horses.

so much avoidable hate but you continue to walk right into it....again. Replace every usage of the word horse with animal and that'll be a start. Now that your post is about GENERAL mount skills you can start deleting all material specific to horses such as what riding them entails, how they move their ears, etc.

Like you can even see the struggle in your OP. Instead of doing a general "mount" you constantly type out "horse/mount" then say fuck it Ima just start typing "horse". Simple wording leads the discussion and I feel like you know this....Even if you kept saying "horse/mount" the entire post you and I know damn well the only mount discussed would be a horse.

Aside from the eternal struggle of not talking about a horse, their is actually 0 discussion points in the thread. You just posted a mechanic write-up. That's like me giving you a presentation and just standing up there waiting for a question or response. The only reason this style of discussion works for Caspian is because his write-up actually counts so people are inclined to discuss the contents without prompt or talking points. Not only that, discussing this system is literally speculation ON TOP OF speculation.

Speculation in itself is cool and common but once you start speculating off of speculations that's when it becomes too much.


Tl;dr of not getting flamed:

  • Drop horses
  • Create relatable Talking Points
  • Don't ask for speculation on speculated mechanics

3 easy steps to stop the increasing negative feedback on these -horse- posts. Hopefully you'll use em.

Horse riding skill progression and other mount skill profession is a perfectly valid topic and in fact it is quite important as we will be using mounts a lot.


8/28/2017 7:43:34 AM #10

Will horses not be using the mount progression?

I guess I'm having trouble understanding what fetish is binding you to these animals -.- At the end of the day, do you, the posts will continue the trend of getting less and less support until it's all flame. Up to you. Legit told you how to negate the flame but erotic bond t00 str0nk.


I don't know anymore.

8/28/2017 7:51:33 AM #11

Horses are a good first logical step as we know more about them in CoE than with other mounts and we have a wealth of information of Riding, general horse stuff in the CoE community that we can make a start by basing it around horses which is applicable to other mounts as they are developed.


8/28/2017 8:02:52 AM #12

Posted By Maulvorn at 7:51 PM - Mon Aug 28 2017

Horses are a good first logical step as we know more about them in CoE than with other mounts and we have a wealth of information of Riding, general horse stuff in the CoE community that we can make a start by basing it around horses which is applicable to other mounts as they are developed.

Yup, once you have a functioning system with horses as the "base", different mounts could be stronger or weaker in different areas.

What is "easy" could also be linked to tribe; riding a horse might be easy for a Neran who has lived around horses all their lives, but riding a Giant Forest Squirrel would be nearly impossible - unless you are a Kypiq, for example.

An expert horse-rider might then be able to barely ride the (hypothetical) Giant Squirrel, to the same level a forest-born Kypiq could do 'naturally'. And having some kind of riding skill system would mean the Neran could slowly improve riding their Squirrel, but might simply never be able to 'ride' tree to tree with the ease of a master Kypiq Squirrel Knight.


Link to my story

8/28/2017 8:05:34 AM #13

Posted By Lady Grace at 09:02 AM - Mon Aug 28 2017

Posted By Maulvorn at 7:51 PM - Mon Aug 28 2017

Horses are a good first logical step as we know more about them in CoE than with other mounts and we have a wealth of information of Riding, general horse stuff in the CoE community that we can make a start by basing it around horses which is applicable to other mounts as they are developed.

Yup, once you have a functioning system with horses as the "base", different mounts could be stronger or weaker in different areas.

What is "easy" could also be linked to tribe; riding a horse might be easy for a Neran who has lived around horses all their lives, but riding a Giant Forest Squirrel would be nearly impossible - unless you are a Kypiq, for example.

Exactly and as horses would be more widespread then the more exotic mounts it is good to their systems set in stone first, plus IMO horses will be the most versatile.


8/28/2017 8:16:39 AM #14

I can agree the mount riding skill is an important feature of the game, but I also agree with a lot of the community that you may be over speculating into the exact nature of the skill and how it will work. You very clearly have a very thorough understanding of horses and their nature and how that could be related into game mechanics, which is great. The only issue is that:

  1. Horses will not be the only mount in the game, and I do not think the devs will be keen of piling on extra layers of complexity to the mount system just for horses. Any mechanics they incorporate need to be incorporatable across the board for all types of mount.

  2. The game is still a game, and even if every element you are talking about could be included I'm not sure it would be just because it would take some of the fun away.

Horses and other mounts are going to die, players are just going to have to accept that fact, and since we can't be in the game 100% of the time our time with one particular mount is very limited. A 20 year life span horse will be gameplay viable for about 15 years of our characters lives, which is a few good months before it kicks the bucket. Now we know there will be a level of familiarity with a horse/mount to the rider, that's been declared, but a familiarity of the mount to the individual roads it travels is a bit much. Realistic sure, but a pain for programming into a game largely about high adventure and exploration.

Some of the things you have mentioned do make a lot of sense, the horses senses are one of them. The GMs have said that there will be a sort of local "radar" for your character's non-visual senses so you can see IG when your character hears something strange, or smells something, or any number of other features. Applying an extra layer of sense based upon the mount your riding could be very useful, a kypiq riding a war dog may in effect be able to detect smells on his radar he otherwise would not be able to, maybe even detect and track animals trails through the sensory radar. As far as individual specialized animations for every sensory perception, its a great dream but such a high level of programming in and animating that I wouldn't hold out for it.


8/28/2017 8:16:49 AM #15

Posted By Dleatherus at 7:07 PM - Sun Aug 27 2017

mod edit

Between all the forum posts and CoE discord did someone bring up horses. I totally agree you nailed it with picture.

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